Electric Hot Rod

[Ace-Garageguy]

17 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

Battery advocates claim something like 90-95% efficiency, and of course, they have their own issues with charging times, and capacity.

Electrification I think will ultimately prove to be a benefit for gas engine enthusiasts as it takes the pressure off them.  When was the last time you heard anyone complain about the enviromental impact of steam engines?

And yes, high performance gas engines sound wonderful, but really, how many Ferraris and Lambos do you com across in your daily routine?  I somehow doubt that too many people are going to wax nostalgic over the throaty purr of a Ford Focus.

 

People claiming 95% "efficiency" for battery-electrics are generally changing the definition of same to suit their agendas. Or they're grossly ignorant of reality.

I agree when the masses are riding around in glorified silent soul-free golf-carts, there MAY be less pressure on IC folks, but just try firing up a steam engine in regulated-to-death Cali and see how far you get.

Far as sound goes, my manual-gearbox GMC sounds entirely different from my auto-box Chevy pickup. My 911 sounds wonderful like only a 911 can, the 550 Spyder repop sounds like a hot 4-cylinder VW or Porsche, and my big Jag sounds like a Jag. The MR2 makes its own sweet music, as does the old Kawasaki. And I love 'em all.

[Ace-Garageguy]

My uncle has a country place that no one knows about. He says it used to be a farm before the Motor Law. On Sundays I elude the eyes and hop the Turbine Freight To far outside the wire where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground as the turbo slows to cross the borderline. Run like the wind as excitement shivers up and down my spine. Down in his barn my uncle preserved for me an old machine for fifty odd years. To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris that hides a shining car, a brilliant red Barchetta from a better vanished time. I fire up the willing engine: responding with a roar, tires spitting gravel I commit my weekly crime

Wind In my hair. Shifting and drifting. Mechanical music. Adrenaline surge...

Well-weathered leather. Hot metal and oil. The scented country air. Sunlight on chrome. The blur of the landscape. Every nerve aware

Suddenly ahead of me across the mountainside, a gleaming alloy air car shoots towards me, two lanes wide. I spin around with shrieking tires to run the deadly race, go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

Drive like the wind, straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I've got a desperate plan. At the one-lane bridge I leave the giants stranded at the riverside, race back to the farm to dream with my uncle at the fireside

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Brian Austin]

Quote

Electric cars have a valuable place in the world , that is leaving the gas for us real car guys!

This is precisely the attitude that irks me. It comes across as patronizing and condescending. Electric vehicles are as "real" as IC vehicles!

To me, a "real car guy" finds all types of vehicular propulsion of interest.  To me, gasoline, steam, and electric power all have fascinating histories and technical aspects.  Heck there was even a guy tinkering with a  land speed record racer powered by rubber bands.  More power to him for thinking out side of the box.

People complain about the "silent" aspects of electric cars, when ICE cars can just be just too noisy at times.  I'm sure neighbors LOVE it when cars loudly rev their engines when exiting car shows.  :-P

But to me, as it pertains to the car hobby, this doesn't have to be a "this OR that" type of thing.  We can enjoy all kinds.  Electric cars aren't replacing IC cars in the hobby.  You can enjoy your sounds and sensations driving your IC car, while other folks can enjoy their sounds and sensations as well.

 

Anyway, I did happen to see an unusual EV-conversion this afternoon ad a microcar event at the Lars Anderson Museum in Massachusetts.

This is the owner's website with the car's history.  It apparently was built in the '70s.   https://www.maxmatic.com/vespa_400/index.html

(Counterbalancing this EV was a Trabant sedan that had also attended the Microcar meet, belching acrid smoke from its tailpipe on its way down the street as I happened to be briefly behind it on my way home.)

 

Further EV reading:

Jaguar E Type EV:  https://www.jaguar.com/about-jaguar/jaguar-classic/authentic-cars/e-type-zero.html

Aston Martin EV conversion (and it's even reversible!):  https://www.autoblog.com/2018/12/05/aston-martin-ev-conversions-electric-1970-db6-volante/

And, for fun... Mister Rogers briefly drove a prototype EV in one of his show's episodes:  https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/03/29/lost-and-found-overflow-that-time-mr-rogers-visited-a-mystery-ev-builder/

(Note in the comments section,at the bottom, the builder is identified, and he seems like an interesting guy as well.  Also, in another point in that episode, Mister Rogers picks up Trolley from its track and turns it over to show the TV viewer the electric motor and chain drive that runs it.)

[1930fordpickup]

When 1 horse was not enough they added more. 

Then along came Steam power

Next was internal combustion engines. 

Now we have Electric powered cars just like the slot cars we drove as kids. 

Humans will  find a faster way to get from point a to point b, c, d and e.

When we can get into our car and drive 20 hours straight with charging time that take no longer than a fuel stop, the world will never look back. 

[Flat32]

There were electric cars and trucks in the early 1900's..Grandma Duck drove one if I'm not mistaken.  Google Baker electric car.  Watch the Jay Leno video.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/overview-of-early-electric-cars.html

Edited July 15, 2019 by Flat32
Added link

[Richard Bartrop]

The original post was about a guy who used his own hands and ingenuity to get more performance out of an old car.  As car guys go, that looked pretty real to me.

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

The original post was about a guy who used his own hands and ingenuity to get more performance out of an old car.  As car guys go, that looked pretty real to me.

Agreed, and true to the original spirit of hot-rodding.

We'll surely be seeing more voltswagons in the future.

But in general, we see a far smaller percentage of the population in pursuit of home-built anything these days, reflecting a culture that largely denigrates, ignores, and has no interest in developing "dirty, difficult, and dangerous" physical skills.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[goldfinger]

8 hours ago, Brian Austin said:

This is precisely the attitude that irks me. It comes across as patronizing and condescending. Electric vehicles are as "real" as IC vehicles!

To me, a "real car guy" finds all types of vehicular propulsion of interest.  To me, gasoline, steam, and electric power all have fascinating histories and technical aspects.  Heck there was even a guy tinkering with a  land speed record racer powered by rubber bands.  More power to him for thinking out side of the box.

People complain about the "silent" aspects of electric cars, when ICE cars can just be just too noisy at times.  I'm sure neighbors LOVE it when cars loudly rev their engines when exiting car shows.  :-P

But to me, as it pertains to the car hobby, this doesn't have to be a "this OR that" type of thing.  We can enjoy all kinds.  Electric cars aren't replacing IC cars in the hobby.  You can enjoy your sounds and sensations driving your IC car, while other folks can enjoy their sounds and sensations as well.

 

Anyway, I did happen to see an unusual EV-conversion this afternoon ad a microcar event at the Lars Anderson Museum in Massachusetts.

This is the owner's website with the car's history.  It apparently was built in the '70s.   https://www.maxmatic.com/vespa_400/index.html

(Counterbalancing this EV was a Trabant sedan that had also attended the Microcar meet, belching acrid smoke from its tailpipe on its way down the street as I happened to be briefly behind it on my way home.)

 

Further EV reading:

Jaguar E Type EV:  https://www.jaguar.com/about-jaguar/jaguar-classic/authentic-cars/e-type-zero.html

Aston Martin EV conversion (and it's even reversible!):  https://www.autoblog.com/2018/12/05/aston-martin-ev-conversions-electric-1970-db6-volante/

And, for fun... Mister Rogers briefly drove a prototype EV in one of his show's episodes:  https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/03/29/lost-and-found-overflow-that-time-mr-rogers-visited-a-mystery-ev-builder/

(Note in the comments section,at the bottom, the builder is identified, and he seems like an interesting guy as well.  Also, in another point in that episode, Mister Rogers picks up Trolley from its track and turns it over to show the TV viewer the electric motor and chain drive that runs it.)

You have needlessly Irked yourself, My comment was neither meant to patronize or condescend. Fossil fuels are dirty and limited. I really do hope that electric cars become more common . One day in the future they may be the reason I am able to fire up my century old Internal combustion powered beast and enjoy a sunday drive or pass down the dragstrip. Or maybe I will distill my own alcohol and run it on that{ I actually know a guy who sold stills specifically for that purpose). And maybe I will get rich running a company that recycles all those batteries! I actually work for a power company so the more electricity distributed the better my stock shares do! However I am sticking with my original statement, and there aint no music like a 12 cylinder Lamborghini Miura screaming down the road! 

[Richard Bartrop]

Don Garlits experimenting with electric dragsters https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/07/15/on-july-20-don-garlits-looks-to-again-make-drag-racing-history/

[Jantrix]

Nostalgia is a fine thing. Appreciation of a finely tuned IC engine as well. But me I'm a realist. I'm down for whatever makes my life easier, makes my life less expensive. I have an 40 mile commute each way. That equates out to 4 gallons of gas each day. We consider it to be a sacrifice for living where and how we want to live. But if something comes along to knock my fuel costs down, I'll be on board in a flash. When the cost of an electric vehicle that can handle my off-the-paved-road commutes, is doable, I will do. 

[webestang]

I'd love to convert my 2.3 auto into an electric drivetrain in my 85 Mustang notch. I read a little about doing it and it would cost around $12-15 grand. Not bad as some guys spend that just on a engine. 

[Scott Colmer]

Sooooo... On the cool sound front, would it be wrong to set up fake side pipes that are really speakers and get some sort of digital engine sound hooked up to a rheostat so it runs in sync with the throttle? Trickery, but fun. And tunable.

Oh- and I have been told that you can set up an e-car with a manual transmission.

 

[sfhess]

Then there's the ICON Mercury......

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/11/05/icon-49-mercury-electric-conversion-takes-sema-show-by-storm/

[Tom Geiger]

2 hours ago, webestang said:

I'd love to convert my 2.3 auto into an electric drivetrain in my 85 Mustang notch. I read a little about doing it and it would cost around $12-15 grand. Not bad as some guys spend that just on a engine. 

Back in the 1970s  Mother Earth News had plans to convert an Opel GT to an electric car.  It used a jet engine starter as the power plant.  

[martinfan5]

Replying to the OP, very cool what he did, not a fan of the style in which he did it( gasser/drag ) .

[martinfan5]

On 7/14/2019 at 12:38 AM, Modelbuilder Mark said:

In MY opinion, its looks hold it back

I agree Mark,  its not the best looking car.

[Straightliner59]

22 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

My uncle has a country place that no one knows about. He says it used to be a farm before the Motor Law. On Sundays I elude the eyes and hop the Turbine Freight To far outside the wire where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground as the turbo slows to cross the borderline. Run like the wind as excitement shivers up and down my spine. Down in his barn my uncle preserved for me an old machine for fifty odd years. To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris that hides a shining car, a brilliant red Barchetta from a better vanished time. I fire up the willing engine: responding with a roar, tires spitting gravel I commit my weekly crime

Wind In my hair. Shifting and drifting. Mechanical music. Adrenaline surge...

Well-weathered leather. Hot metal and oil. The scented country air. Sunlight on chrome. The blur of the landscape. Every nerve aware

Suddenly ahead of me across the mountainside, a gleaming alloy air car shoots towards me, two lanes wide. I spin around with shrieking tires to run the deadly race, go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

Drive like the wind, straining the limits of machine and man. Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I've got a desperate plan. At the one-lane bridge I leave the giants stranded at the riverside, race back to the farm to dream with my uncle at the fireside

 

Bill, you just gave me goosebumps! It happens, whenever I see/hear a Rush song, in an unexpected place. I frequently hear news, regarding cars,  that makes me think of Red Barchetta and "Motor Law". Neil Peart wrote these lyrics based on a short story from Road&Track, I believe, entitled "A Nice Sunday Drive."

On a related note, one old guy  is soon, or just has (over the past weekend, maybe?) attempting to set a new record with an electric dragster. The "Old Man" hisself, Don Garlits.

[Straightliner59]

4 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

Don Garlits experimenting with electric dragsters https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/07/15/on-july-20-don-garlits-looks-to-again-make-drag-racing-history/

Yep! I missed this post, before I posted my comment.

 

[Modelbuilder Mark]

A very fast electric sports car option is on the horizon. Zero to 60 in 1.9 seconds. (yes, a Tesla)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/11/17/tesla-unveils-electric-big-rig-truck-amid-manufacturing/

It is understandable that since we have spent a century on developing combustion engines rather than primarily electric, that Electric Vehicles still have some maturing to do. They are cleaner than combustion engines in MOST countries, but not all, as around the globe a large amount of the electricity is still fossil based, coal burning plants. Here is an article called Shades of Green: Electric Cars’ Carbon Emissions Around the Globe that looks at the footprint based on location. This WILL improve over time as there are advances in overall electric production.

Add to that, there is the production of the batteries themselves, which has an associated cost in by-products which is not disputed as being greater than that of combustion engines, as well as the end of life disposal issues that will have to be worked out when all the automotive batteries start to need recycled or disposed of. For example, according to Wired the lithium extraction process requires water in most cases to bring the element up to the surface in a brine—500,000 gallons of water per ton of lithium,. In some regions in Chile, 65 percent of water is used up in lithium production, diverting it from local food production. The brine then requires 12 to 18 months to evaporate. Any water returned to the farmers could be tainted with chemicals.

Ultimately, developing anything that reduces the carbon footprint is good, be it hydrogen, cleaner generation of electric, heck, even cleaner burning fuel such as ethanol or methanol. The funny thing, we may face other issues before these actually created the real problems. I just heard that sand, of all things, is becoming more scarce, https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/world-facing-global-sand-crisis-180964815/ because of extreme construction around the world for glass, concrete etc.

Consider the fact that our world has more DOUBLED in population since 1960....We have a LOT of issues facing our future generations...not just our cars....

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, Scott Colmer said:

...Oh- and I have been told that you can set up an e-car with a manual transmission...

Yes.

The vast majority of the conversions done in the 1970s (and there were a lot of them) used manual gearboxes.

And when I say a lot, I mean a LOT. Many hundreds, if not thousands. There were conversion articles sprouting up everywhere, and kits, and companies doing the swaps. The gas price hike when OPEC began turning off the tap scared a lot of folks.

Conversions ran the gamut from bodged hack-jobs that were so heavy with batteries, they rode like buckboards bottomed on the bump-stops (don't anybody panic...I didn't say bump-stocks), to fairly sophisticated and well engineered vehicles, some of which even boasted solid-state logic-controlled energy-management and limited regenerative charging capability on deceleration. And range was generally poor...realistically about 40 miles or so.

So, I think it's terrifically funny how this recent trend has been appropriated as if it's something new and millenial-generational, when it's actually old farts like me who started it four-and-a-half decades ago, and electric vehicles have been around about as long as cars have been around anyway. Ferdinand Porsche even designed some, including a fantastic military road-train with hub-motors in the wheels.

Battery technology was and still is the primary limiting hardware factor, but recent advances have made it possible to use some of the things like real cars instead of toys with very limited range. Batteries will continue to improve, most likely significantly, but as noted in this thread elsewhere, batteries themselves pose serious environmental and recycling and raw-material questions.

And most people STILL overlook the power-generation and power-distribution infrastructure. It's simply not ready yet for hundreds of thousands of electrics to be plugged in virtually simultaneously to recharge overnight. And the typical head-in-the-sand attitude of most people concerning the fact that most electricity generation STILL comes from the hated hydro (rapidly dwindling if Lake Mead is any indicator), fossil-fuel-burning (coal and stupidly, natural gas), and the horror-story show-stopper of them all...nuclear.

The cost to replace the US's power generating and distribution system with 100% renewables ?...estimates are around 3 TRILLION dollars. And that's only to get it to the point where it can deal with TODAY'S loads...not the vastly increased loads of hundreds of thousands or ultimately millions of plugged-in cars. You're going to be paying significantly more for electricity, period.

Another problem is that the numbers surrounding electric vehicle efficiency and grid requirements are as skewed and exaggerated and contradictory, depending on whose agenda they're shoring up, as the whole global-warming controversy.

I would advise everyone... before you blindly accept a total electric future is the best possible future, take off the rose-tinted glasses, do some research, and try to understand enough about science and economics so you can make informed interpretations of the available data for yourselves.

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[iamsuperdan]

14 hours ago, Flat32 said:

There were electric cars and trucks in the early 1900's..Grandma Duck drove one if I'm not mistaken.  Google Baker electric car.  Watch the Jay Leno video.

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/overview-of-early-electric-cars.html

People think this is all new. But the very first Porsche was an all wheel drive electric car.

 

[Freeman Cars]

This is an electric hot rod we have planned.

General Electric automobile motor manufactured between 1899 and 1901.

We're building the car on a 1917 Model T frame.

We hope to begin construction early next year.

We would like to enter it in The Race of Gentlemen.

[Ace-Garageguy]

^^^   Fan-freakin'-tastic!!  

I'm curious...with the rated motor speed range being shown as 1450-1950 RPM (only a 500 RPM spread), are you intending to use a continuously-variable transmission?

Edited July 16, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Freeman Cars]

That's yet to be determined. I am in contact with  a company that rebuilds large electric motors.

They say they can hop it up and broaden the performance envelope of that motor.

After they do it we will put it on their dyno and see what we have performance wise and that will determine the rest of the drive train.

I didn't want to take the easy way out and just plug a used Tesla motor in there. It wouldn't be as cool. We are HotRodding an original electric motor.

[Richard Bartrop]

On 7/14/2019 at 4:14 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

I agree when the masses are riding around in glorified silent soul-free golf-carts, there MAY be less pressure on IC folks, but just try firing up a steam engine in regulated-to-death Cali and see how far you get.

This is how far this guy got

https://youtu.be/B3VVN48ndLw

Jay Leno got this far: