Round 2 March 2017 Product Spotlight

[Luc Janssens]

What's weird with the whole "Train Show vs Model Show" thing is, as a retailer, trains are dead.  Steadily falling for years.  If 50k people go to a train show, I'd be willing to bet 40k are Boy Scout troops just there to see the trains go round and get some sort of merit badge. The little moochers probably got in for free, too.  Models have rebounded quite nicely since the recession, but trains haven't (at least not from where I'm sitting).  But that's the rub, the general population will go to a train show just to see the layouts and watch the trains go around, but won't go to a model show and look at painted models sitting still on a table.   Social media has killed the need for a trade show in the US, so there's not really one anymore. iHobby tried to transition to a public show after a couple year break, but I don't think it went too well (and it was run by the same folks who run The Great American Train Shows).  Modeling is doing fine, don't worry about it.  Maybe car modeling isn't doing that great, but I think that's just because younger folks aren't as into cars. They're sticking bits of plastic together and painting them they're just stuff like Gundam robots and tabletop gaming miniatures. There are tabletop gaming tournaments in the US that pull tens of thousands of attendees.  

Just when I was thinking a retailer/wholesaler should comment on this...

 

[Dave Van]

Wow......trains are dead......We'd better tell the three big promoters to shut down.  Just one train show running from 2005 will get near 1.5 million PAID attendance with this years show (total over run)  And with about 25 shows yet to happen this year with over 30K expected at each I'd love it if model cars were that 'dead'. 

My post was NEVER meant to be a this is better than that......it was ONLY to show how small a hobby we are. Let's discuss that and not how much better model cars are than trains. I'd love to hear how we can draw even 20K to a all plastic model car show......that would show R2, Revell and Moebius we NEED many more new tools rather than old ones warmed over. 

PS. If model trains are dead why does Lionel sell out of their high end locos that sell at the $2K mark and they offer 4-8 new locos a year.  Maybe if we were willing to pay say $75 per kit we'd get more new tools. 

PPS Scouts often attend and they are often free....but can not be counted as PAID attendance. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Dave Van

[unclescott58]

I don't think trains are dead. But, neither are models. Again as I pointed out, I feel comparing train shows to model shows, are comparing apples to oranges. The train shows are big. They are fun to go to and see the operating layouts. See stuff that for the most part is beyond my space limitations and budget. I love model cars. But, I rarely go to show just to look at others cars. I do go to look. Don't get me wrong. But, I go just as much to socialize with other builders. And to some degree check out vendors. I've both purchased and won model kits in raffles at model shows. I don't recall if I've ever bought anything at a train show?

By the way. One hobby is not better than the other. And I look forward every month to seeing Round 2's latest videos. Nothing big on my must have list right now. But I sure appreciate them taking the time to show me what's new that they have to offer.

Scott

 

[Dave Van]

I think we agree basically.  And we are in the middle of some GREAT plastic model car products. I LOVE the fact I can buy some AMT or MPC kits I had seen but never owned. I'd love it if we got 8-10 new tools a year....but it just can not be supported by the numbers we have today. Maybe we need to do something different to draw the public.....that's  a topic that would be great! 

I've been in this hobby since I was 4 years old......as a hobbyist, a retailer, a aftermarket  manufacture, kit manufacture and consultant. I have more invested in this hobby than I'd ever care to admit.....and want it to go on WAY past my lifespan.  But we need realistic expectations. 

[Brett Barrow]

Wow......trains are dead......We'd better tell the three big promoters to shut down.  Just one train show running from 2005 will get near 1.5 million PAID attendance with this years show (total over run)  And with about 25 shows yet to happen this year with over 30K expected at each I'd love it if model cars were that 'dead'. 

My post was NEVER meant to be a this is better than that......it was ONLY to show how small a hobby we are. Let's discuss that and not how much better model cars are than trains. I'd love to hear how we can draw even 20K to a all plastic model car show......that would show R2, Revell and Moebius we NEED many more new tools rather than old ones warmed over. 

PS. If model trains are dead why does Lionel sell out of their high end locos that sell at the $2K mark and they offer 4-8 new locos a year.  Maybe if we were willing to pay say $75 per kit we'd get more new tools. 

PPS Scouts often attend and they are often free....but can not be counted as PAID attendance. 

I was a bit snarky in my reply, but from where I'm sitting it's true.  Train shows might be doing great but it's not translating into sales which is what matters for everybody except the folks that run the train shows. We dropped Lionel this past year and still had the best Christmas season in our site's history. What difference would 20k at a show make if they don't then go out  and buy kits? All that matters is sales and they know what sells and what doesn't and what gives them the best return. They know new tools sell well. They also know they need the profits from repops to fund that new tooling.  

 

The point I was trying to make wasn't which is bigger, model railroading or model cars, it was which one I see potential and see a future in on the retail side of things. 

[Dave Van]

Agreed....the next ten years for both hobbies will be telling.  Large collections in both hobbies will come to market as folks just age out or pass.......will this draw some folks in or make the secondary market worthless due to glut.  I am happy I am not on the retail end any longer so I can sleep at night. No one in the plastic model car or model train biz is getting rich! Thanks

[niteowl7710]

I think we agree basically.  And we are in the middle of some GREAT plastic model car products. I LOVE the fact I can buy some AMT or MPC kits I had seen but never owned. I'd love it if we got 8-10 new tools a year....but it just can not be supported by the numbers we have today. 

When you say we can't get 8-10 new tools per year because it can't be supported by the numbers, I presume you're talking about U.S. kit manufacturers, and not the hobby as a global market.  Because when you start filtering in the European and Asian kit manufacturers we in fact get twice as many new tools as that per year.  By my count there were 25 new tools (not counting significant modified reissues) in 2016, and we're at 13 new tools (which again doesn't figure in significantly modified tooling like the '66 Suburban) either released or announced in 2017 and it's only March.

It might not be the largest hobby out there, but it's chugging along quite nicely - and how many new tools do you people really need?

[Dave Van]

Yes......the big 3 US based manufactures.  And again only the main focus of this segment which is 1/25-24 plastic soft skin vehicles. (civilian cars and trucks) 

[Tom Geiger]

Ya know, Dave is right... Why are people so frigging cynical and judgmental?  

A few thoughts here...   Round 2 rode in like the white knight and bought up all the old model tooling.  If it wasn't for them, there's a very good chance that TOMY would've scrapped it all for the metal value and you'd all be paying $100 plus for these kits!

Then once they bought up not only the AMT, MPC lines, they've also made investments in the old Lindberg, Renwal and other lines.  Clearly they are in the nostalgic kit market.  

All of those assets cost money,  most likely borrowed money with debt service on it.  And you guys have the audacity to complain when they actually use this ancient tooling to bring kits to market???    

And you all need to understand that this isn't all about us.  We represent the very serious kit guys..  the guys who go on message boards, attend club meetings and shows.  As Dave said NNL East is the largest show in the country and we have about 1200 people.  Kit runs that were hundreds of thousands in the 1960s are maybe 20,000 kit runs today.  Some of the reissues are 2,500 units.  I honestly don't know how companies actually make money servicing this tiny little niche market.

These kit runs are for the hobby shops and retail trade where 95% of kits are sold.  They are sold to casual modelers, guys who may not have the sophisticated car knowledge of this crowd,  and is more likely to glue the kit together without paint, but that's where the units are sold!   Really.

 

 

[Exotics_Builder]

Tom, I think all the Renwal stuff is Revell, not Round2.  But, I see people buying the reissues, especially if cleaned up.  With over 700 still left in the stash, I usually won't buy a reissue unless it has something that isn't in the kit I already have.  And, then I will unload the older kit.

[Mr mopar]

All I say is Round 2 & Revell Monogram Two thumbs up ,I love reissued kits .like it say Round 2 a second chance at picking up old kits.

[martinfan5]

Yes......the big 3 US based manufactures.  And again only the main focus of this segment which is 1/25-24 plastic soft skin vehicles. (civilian cars and trucks) 

Those very kits that Nightowl is referencing are all 1/24th scale civilian cars,  yes, they are not domestic kits, but they still count when looking at the overall health of the model car part of the hobby.   If you are only focusing on the domestic kits/companies , ok, fine, then yes, we are not getting a lot of new tooled kits like days gone by, but just like everything else, the hobby is global and we are getting more new tooled kits from other markets than we know what to do with.

[ChrisBcritter]

On the '57 Ford we have "30 parts restored and 11 retooled"; he moves the box so fast it's hard to see what's in it. There's no image of the box bottom on the site, so I downloaded the video, ran it through my editing program to go frame by frame, and it looks like we aren't getting the Styline custom front and rear ends . One blurry frame seemed to show the pods for the vertical quad headlights are back, so at least that's something...

[unclescott58]

On the '57 Ford we have "30 parts restored and 11 retooled"; he moves the box so fast it's hard to see what's in it. There's no image of the box bottom on the site, so I downloaded the video, ran it through my editing program to go frame by frame, and it looks like we aren't getting the Styline custom front and rear ends . One blurry frame seemed to show the pods for the vertical quad headlights are back, so at least that's something...

Chris your comment reminds me. Revell-Monogram for the most part does this. And Round 2 use to. And that is put copies of the kits instructions online. I like this. Because it normally gives me a pretty accurate heads up on what I can expect in a kit. I've even waited to see the instruction sheet in some cases before deciding to buy or not buy a kit. The digram showing the parts on the bottom of Round 2's box is the next best thing. I'd love to know what exactly is and isn't in the latest reissue of AMT's '57 Ford. After all, I have enough of them in my collection already. But, if they've restored or ad some cool stuff. Who knows? I might need another one. 

Scott

 

[Robberbaron]

I've said it before and I'll say it again the "old" Round 2 site was just about perfect.  Well laid out, the newest releases at the top, working your way down all the way back to their very first releases from about 2008.  And PDF instructions for almost everything.

Their "new" site is pretty much a flashy, non-functional pile of excrement.

Didn't need to fix what wasn't broken...

[Casey]

I've said it before and I'll say it again the "old" Round 2 site was just about perfect.  Well laid out, the newest releases at the top, working your way down all the way back to their very first releases from about 2008.  And PDF instructions for almost everything.

Their "new" site is pretty much a flashy, non-functional pile of excrement.

Didn't need to fix what wasn't broken...

^Agree 100%. I don't even visit the Round2 main page/site, but follow the Collector Model blog and Instagram, where Round2 posts unique content.

I expect we'll see a CM blog post dedicated to the '57 Ford, but either way, someone will post pics of the new kit's contents in the near future.

[niteowl7710]

Yes......the big 3 US based manufactures.  And again only the main focus of this segment which is 1/25-24 plastic soft skin vehicles. (civilian cars and trucks) 

I was speaking of 1/24(5) civilian cars and trucks.  Now if you want to have a separate discussion of why of those 20+ new from scratch tool kits only 4 of them were from the U.S. Big 3, and only 1 of the 13 for 2017 as well I will hedge it on cheap modelers, followed by cheap modelers, with a dash of xenophobia and a heaping side of living in the past.

All of which amuses me considering Japan is a smaller country and is aging at a much more rapid rate than the U.S. and they can just ply the hobby with new tools galore. Also you'll notice while I put living in the past (eg everything sucks post-1972) on that list, that's not the same as the hobby being old. Living in the past is all about refusing to accept subject matter outside of a narrow scope of interest. It's why there's 20+ new tools out there in 2016, but I'm pretty sure if I don't actually make a list of them people here won't believe me because they're completely off the radar.

[Mark]

What's wrong with living in the past?  That's where most of my life is...

[AC Norton]

I was speaking of 1/24(5) civilian cars and trucks.  Now if you want to have a separate discussion of why of those 20+ new from scratch tool kits only 4 of them were from the U.S. Big 3, and only 1 of the 13 for 2017 as well I will hedge it on cheap modelers, followed by cheap modelers, with a dash of xenophobia and a heaping side of living in the past.

All of which amuses me considering Japan is a smaller country and is aging at a much more rapid rate than the U.S. and they can just ply the hobby with new tools galore. Also you'll notice while I put living in the past (eg everything sucks post-1972) on that list, that's not the same as the hobby being old. Living in the past is all about refusing to accept subject matter outside of a narrow scope of interest. It's why there's 20+ new tools out there in 2016, but I'm pretty sure if I don't actually make a list of them people here won't believe me because they're completely off the radar.

well, you are certainly  entitled to your opinion regarding this, and better yet, you can have, and buy up all the newly tooled kit's you like, as that leave's more old reissue's for the rest of us who apparently live in the past to buy what you don't want.....have to run now, back to my narrow scope of model car interest's.............the Ace.... 

[pack rat]

 someone will post pics of the new kit's contents in the near future.

Here's the parts layout.

 

[Casey]

Looks like bumperettes(?) and/or exhaust dump pipes/tubes, a floor shifter, and dog dish style hubcaps are the newly tooled parts?

'90s seats and package tray hound dog made the cut, I see. 

[Dave Van]

Some good stuff returned to the kit.  I didn't like the 90's refresh.....

[martinfan5]

Here's the parts layout.

 

Because all old cars look the same to me, can someone tell me what kit this is.

[AC Norton]

Because all old cars look the same to me, can someone tell me what kit this is.

yes,... it is the part's layout on the box bottom for the upcoming AMT 57 Ford release coming later this month.....the Ace...

[unclescott58]

Here's the parts layout.

 

Thank you. But, instructions would be even better. 

Scott