Round2 Kat's Kollection - New Series

[Casey]

Looks like Round2 is changing its "exclusive" kit releases (IIRC the Paddy Wagon '23 T was the first?), but they will still only be available through their store: http://www.collectormodel.com/#sthash.RfPJkIE6.dpbs 

I'm not convinced all that many people were clamoring for yet another version of the Hippie Hemi F/E dragster kit, but it's the first release, with new/old decals for the "Rampaging Reptile" version:

 

 

[iamsuperdan]

Oh look, another reissue from the 60s. 

*yawns*

Look, I know there's a market for this stuff, and I know of lot of the older guys like it, but I think it's stuff like this that is killing the hobby. You want to attract new/younger people to the hobby, a reissue of a 50 year old kit is not the way.

 

[unclescott58]

I love most of these old reissues. But, this one will not be grabbing any of coin.

[russosborne]

I'd love to get one or three. Will have to check out their website.

Yes, I'm one of those old people. ?

Thanks, 

Russ

[smhardesty]

You want to attract new/younger people to the hobby, a reissue of a 50 year old kit is not the way.

 

Exactly. The youth of today don't get overly excited by a kit like the Hippie kit. Maybe somebody at Revell or Round2 needs to conduct a survey of several thousand 12 to 20 year olds to find out what these kids do like. Around this part of Southeastern Illinois I'm going to bet customized 4WD pickups would be pretty high on the list, especially if the kit had extra parts to build a pulling truck.

[martinfan5]

Oh look, another reissue from the 60s. 

*yawns*

Look, I know there's a market for this stuff, and I know of lot of the older guys like it, but I think it's stuff like this that is killing the hobby. You want to attract new/younger people to the hobby, a reissue of a 50 year old kit is not the way.

 

Bingo,  not really sure Round2 is thinking long term with the amount of focus they have on the demo that is not going to be around much longer,  its great they are covering the new Camaro, but they are gonna need to put a little bit effort into.

Just my 1.5 cents, your mileage and opinion may vary.

[Mike999]

Rant:  Another big yawn here. I'm older than dirt and try to support the hobby as much as possible on my limited Geezer Income, but I will not be buying this turkey.  Not that I just like old stuff. I'd happily shell out for a Snap-Kit Crown Vic with an updated body. 

Speaking of Geezer Nostalgia - I hope this one is already in the pipeline. But where is the AMT '40 Ford sedan? Hopefully issued in the original "Trophy Series" box with that gorgeous art.  With the instruction sheet from the AMT/ERTL Millennium Edition, which explained the differences between a '39 and '40 Ford.

Old Man Yells At Round 2 - long as I'm here, those "extras" in the Art Box kits don't do a thing for me.  A mini-model box?  How about a sheet of real 1/25 scale boxes, that would be more useful.  Then I wouldn't have to strain my old eyes scanning and reducing them. Different colored glass?  Yawn again.  If you want to give us some useful extras, take a tip from the AMT/ERTL "Prestige" series.  Throw in something like the Drag Strip Accessories or other Parts Paks. The pad-printed tires are great, though. /rant

 

 

[Dave Van]

Overall I like what R2 is doing and has done. But you can still find thee pretty easy.....and it was not that great when it first came out. 

Give me a ZZR in classic box with new pad printed tires and I'll pay $35 without blinking.....

[Mr mopar]

Why Dose Round2 do this stuff ,did this not come out already ............................ this will not fly ! but if they were to bring back some old rare kits it might ,but I don't see that happening anytime soon ,so I will stay out of it . I got more kits them a hobby shop so I don't need any more .Round2 wake up and give your head a shake .

Edited September 30, 2017 by Mr mopar

[Rob Hall]

Why Dose Round2 do this stuff ,did this not come out already ............................ this will not fly ! but if they were to bring back some old rare kits it might ,but I don't see that happening anytime soon ,so I will stay out of it . I got more kits them a hobby shop so I don't need any more .Round2 wake up and give your head a shake .

It's like printing money for them...they know there are always X number of people that will buy every reissue....churn them out w/ different decals and box art, they will always sell..   I have zero interest in the subject, but I'm not the target customer for it.

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Rob Hall

[Luc Janssens]

Who says the younger crowd is interested in any kind of automotive model kits, maybe they only want Star Wars stuff, and think all 3 the US model companies have the Sci-Fi arm of the hobby covered...

The milking of the recent Round-2 Camaro tool makes me think, they make so many variations out of necessity.

 

[oldcarfan]

So many questions. Is this the market now? Is the money and market not there for new releases? Has American modeling become a nostalgia scene that will dwindle as its supporters age out? I really hope not. In a lot of ways car modeling is mirroring the 1:1 car scene where customizing and accessorizing is just not as popular except for when a new Fat and Furry movie comes out. Most people see cars today as transportation pods rather than as a sign of their taste or status. How do the Japanese companies manage to produce kits based on current cars? I would love to know how sales of kits based on new cars sell as opposed to ones based on vintage cars. I don't think it's the price that hurts, though I would love to pay less, but adjusting for inflation, the prices aren't that much higher than they were in the 1960s. My feeling is that our hobby has become a niche market and the manufacturers are struggling to find a way to get by in that situation.

[iamsuperdan]

The comic strip Baby Blues has been relevant to this discussion over the past week.

 

I chuckled at these, but it also made me a little bummed out, because I hear many of these same comments here at home. Not everyone is into this. And it seems like most ids just aren't into it.

What subject matter might be of interest?

-lifted diesel trucks

-more euro hypercars

-Tesla

-imports/drift

-zombie apocalypse kits

 

Just some thoughts.

 

 

[Jon Cole]

How on earth is todays kids suppose to relate to a "Hippie Hemi"?
I can't help to wonder if Round2 is just happy if they can keep pushing these kits out the door... the heck with surveys and such. If they sold the last batch, they think they can sell the next batch.
They sell Star Wars kits; and kit the new Camaro. They must be happy.
I wonder what their operating budget allows for tool development?

[iamsuperdan]

I think one of the other things to consider with the new tooling that we're asking for is licensing. I work in the automotive industry, and have contacts at most of the major manufacturers. I was speaking with my FCA rep last year, and was asking about the lack of merch for Ram trucks and the Hellcats. He filled me in on just how tough it is to get licensing permissions out of FCA, especially for images of the cars. That's one of the reasons we keep seeing Camaro and Mustang kits, but haven't seen a Challenger for many, many years.ANd then you get companies like Ferrari. They sign exclusivity deals for licensed product, and sometimes those companies do not produce certain things. Like diecast or plastic models.

Sucks, but it's reality. It's entirely possible that Round2, or any of the other kit companies have attenpted to obtain permissions for exactly what we've been discussing, but have been turned down. 

Would be interesting to discuss the ins and outs with someone from one of the kit manufacturers 

Edited September 30, 2017 by iamsuperdan

[Dave Van]

How on earth is todays kids suppose to relate to a "Hippie Hemi"?
I can't help to wonder if Round2 is just happy if they can keep pushing these kits out the door... the heck with surveys and such. If they sold the last batch, they think they can sell the next batch.
They sell Star Wars kits; and kit the new Camaro. They must be happy.
I wonder what their operating budget allows for tool development?

FYI ....Revell has the US license for Star Wars and has for many years.

[waynehulsey]

Why Dose Round2 do this stuff ,did this not come out already ............................ this will not fly ! but if they were to bring back some old rare kits it might ,but I don't see that happening anytime soon ,so I will stay out of it . I got more kits them a hobby shop so I don't need any more .Round2 wake up and give your head a shake .

Will agree with that. Besides kits like the Hippie Reptile dragster, etc. I didn't buy when they were new. Thought they were junk then, think even less of them now. At least when they were new, they were a feeble marketing attempt to fit into the zeitgeist of the time, now just an even more feeble marketing attempt to trade on a very limited and dying nostalgia. The European and Asian manufacturers seem to be doing well with new tooling, sort of like their automobile manufacturers did with new ideas. And when you look at the prices that Round2 is asking for this stuff, they're not that much cheaper then the new tools.

  

[mikemodeler]

I wasn't a fan of that kit when I was 40 years younger and I sure as heck aren't now! 

Let's face it, the cost of developing new kits is staggering and the market for them in the US is shrinking. Add in licensing costs (see the post above regarding Ram trucks) and it is why we are stuck with the same old same old from RC2. Revell has found a way to create some new Ford tools recently and maybe we should take that as a good sign? Moebius has too, with their F series trucks and hopefully that will spur more new kit development.

If the model companies want to attract a younger demographic, they had better work on giving them something they are looking for.

[Tom Geiger]

Here's the deal guys.   Round Two invested a ton of money, make that all their money, in saving the old tooling of several model companies. Therefore that tooling must be put to use to earn it's keep.  Just like a trucking company doesn't buy new trucks and just park them.

Tom Lowe and John Gretzula have done a superb job of  reissuing old favorites and making them viable with new parts, great new tires and nostalgic box art.  Note that they have to regularly release product to make ends meet.  And note that we are not the primary target market... the occasional modeler who buys from hobby shops,  Michaels,  Hobby Lobby etc   buy most of the product in this hobby.  There is hobby industry data that shows that people stick with hobbies an average of 18 months. So if Round 2 reissues old kits every 2 years, they are hitting a new market each time.  I see kits changing regularly at my local Hobby Lobby and Michaels, and I don't know a single person locally who builds models.  But people are buying models!

Again, these are very astute business men, both long time hobby guys who know this market very well.  If indeed there was room and capital for them to be tooling up new kits, they'd be doing it.  

And again, a company has to chase the market where the money is.  Right now the hobby market opportunity is with the Baby Boomers, who are empty nesters with disposable income and retiring with lots of spare time.  This generation has many more members than the generations that follow. So it's only fair for a business to focus on serving this market.  Notice that the new releases from Revell are also aimed at this  very same market.  I'm a stamp collector and  the American Philatelic Society states that their market research into attracting new members is in the late 50s through 60s.  So this is the biggest opportunity for sales for the model manufacturers as well.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Tom Geiger

[Dave Van]

I agree  Tom.....I have worked in small ways with both Tom and John and overall think they have done a GREAT job with what they have. 

As for this kit being the flagship of a new line....not so much.  Maybe a reissue of the Barris Paddy Wagon....90% of the tooling is in other kits......can't be that much to restore. THAT would be a flagship kit for a new line. I fully understand the challenges of this hobby as a business. A retire Sr Analyst for a top 5 worldwide bank...I tend to analyze EVERYTHING. And working in this hobby for 35+ years now....I see both sides. Let's hope this is just a starter kit and big things are coming. 

 

[tim boyd]

Here's the deal guys.   Round Two invested a ton of money, make that all their money, in saving the old tooling of several model companies. Therefore that tooling must be put to use to earn it's keep.  Just like a trucking company doesn't buy new trucks and just park them.

Tom Lowe and John Gretzula have done a superb job of  reissuing old favorites and making them viable with new parts, great new tires and nostalgic box art.  Note that they have to regularly release product to make ends meet.  And note that we are not the primary target market... the occasional modeler who buys from hobby shops,  Michaels,  Hobby Lobby etc   buy most of the product in this hobby.  There is hobby industry data that shows that people stick with hobbies an average of 18 months. So if Round 2 reissues old kits every 2 years, they are hitting a new market each time.  I see kits changing regularly at my local Hobby Lobby and Michaels, and I don't know a single person locally who builds models.  But people are buying models!

Again, these are very astute business men, both long time hobby guys who know this market very well.  If indeed there was room and capital for them to be tooling up new kits, they'd be doing it.  

And again, a company has to chase the market where the money is.  Right now the hobby market opportunity is with the Baby Boomers, who are empty nesters with disposable income and retiring with lots of spare time.  This generation has many more members than the generations that follow. So it's only fair for a business to focus on serving this market.  Notice that the new releases from Revell are also aimed at this  very same market.  I'm a stamp collector and  the American Philatelic Society states that their market research into attracting new members is in the late 50s through 60s.  So this is the biggest opportunity for sales for the model manufacturers as well.

Tom's response here is spot-on with the situation as I understand it.  Round 2's business approach for the model car hobby segment is primarily updating and reissuing old tools...and I for one think they are doing a fine job given their situation.  Make no mistake, I'd love to see Round 2 do a new series of full-detail S550 Mustangs delivered with the same level of excellence as their recent full-detail current-gen Camaro kits, but I don't think that's in the cards for Round 2 right now.  In the meantime, I'm also glad the Revell and Moebius ARE delivering all new tools (although I am anxiously awaiting any signs that Revell would get serious with some full detail S500 kits, and seeing no smoke signals on the horizon whatsoever)

TIM

 

[Spex84]

I agree that it would be nice to have some more contemporary subjects available (ie, RAM trucks) to capitalize on current trends, but Round 2 has a certain business model and I think they're doing a great job of updating and marketing the kits they've purchased the rights to.

I may not be a huge fan of every single kit they re-release, but I have to keep in mind that my modeling tastes may evolve, and 20 years from now I might be very glad of the pool of 2010s-era Round 2 kits that will probably still be available on auction sites etc. Recently I picked up the AMT '32 Victoria. I have a vintage example of the kit (that was much cheaper, funny enough) and now I can keep it intact for the sake of collector's nostalgia, and build the new kit instead.

I know I've purchased some kits in the past that I thought were kinda garbage (not from Round 2 though!) --but then my tastes evolved a little and I suddenly found creative uses for them.

 

[iamsuperdan]

Tom brings up a good point. It's all well and good for us (myself included) to talk about what we want, and what disappoints us, but these companies are actually in the business, and they can see buying habits on a national and international scale. So they must have some sense of what sells and what doesn't. And he's right. I don;t know anyone else locally that builds kits, yet the local Hobby store and Michaels are always selling product.

Having said that, I'd still like to see a better mix of old and new. And I am glad that someone is saving original molds and equipment, thus preserving the history of the hobby.

 

  

Edited October 2, 2017 by iamsuperdan

[GarryR]

One man's junk is another man's treasure. If one has an interest in early-mid 60's drag racing, the Hippie Hemi has an accurate chassis and running gear, coming from the 1965 Garlit's Wynn's Jammer kit. It is typical of many dragsters of the era and applicable to lots of projects. Many may question the marketing decision, or not like the subject matter, but the contents cannot be labeled "junk". 

There are a lot of new kits that have created excitement on this forum, but have little or no appeal to me; 70's Mopars, Bronco, '76 Gran Torino, '83 Olds, any post-1970 Nascar, Porsche, Ferrari, etc. I know the kits are not "junk", but like everyone, have to carefully budget what I spend on the hobby. The current price of kits has been a game changer for me. Gone are the days when I would buy kits at retail I was not particularly interested in just for parts that might be usable for an unplanned project. 

I agree with those considering Round2's contribution to the hobby as being profoundly positive. AMT, MPC, Lindberg, and Hawk could easily have followed Johan into oblivion. I am appreciative that Tom and John have the interest, vision, savvy, and resources to do what they have done.

[PARTSMARTY]

I wouldn't want one of these unless it was in a bargain bin.Like Dan says I would love to  see new mopar stuff- than i'd buy some.