SfanGoch Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I get it when a thread is on the verge of becoming a cyber-knife fight and gets locked to prevent any further escalation of tempers. But , JeezusMaryJoseph, why should a thread get shut down because a mod is tired of it? That's like taking the ball home because you don't feel like playing anymore even if it wasn't your ball to begin with. Everybody else was having a good time with it; so, what's the point of locking it? As long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks aimed at forum members, what's the harm in letting any thread run its course on its own? When, and if, people get tired of the topic, it'll fade into the back pages by itself. It's the same deal when a mod decides that a thread is going off-topic. If The original poster doesn't have a problem with the direction a thread is heading at any given moment, why should a mod make that decision for that person? Not for nothing, normal conversations within a group of people usually stay on topic for a while; but, somewhere along the line, it will digress into other things not relevant to the original subject. This is temporary and the conversation is righted on its own. Why should it be any different on a forum? People are discussing things in relative real time and things like digressing from a topic will occur. This type of excessive hall monitoring puts a damper on enjoying this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I'm in 100% agreement with every word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bartrop Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 When people are talking about something I'm not interested in, I'll find one I am interested in. It's really not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SfanGoch Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Obviously, we aren't smart, nor capable enough, to make that decision on our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Kinda like the mommy state. Regulate everything to the nth degree, pretty soon thinking becomes completely unnecessary. And unpopular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, SfanGoch said: Obviously, we aren't smart, nor capable enough, to make that decision on our own. There's a lot of that kind of thought going around these days, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SfanGoch Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 A quirky, new take on the classic helicopter parenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) I had this exact same discussion on another forum a few weeks ago. The argument was that the the thread had gone off topic! So I guess that we are supposed to be only be capable of dealing with one thought at a time? Have any of us ever been to a party where we sat drinking beer until the wee hours of the morning discussing one topic the entire time? It's only natural that a conversation will morph into other subjects. In this particular instance, the threads were not locked, they were being eliminated entirely! Excuse me, but eliminating an entire thread because the admin feels that it's not going in the correct direction is absolutely idiotic! It will interest me to see how long it takes for this "heretical" thread to be locked. Steve Edited August 5, 2018 by StevenGuthmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ambrose Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 What topic is this regarding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I didn't start this thread, but my guess is the subject is the "Bad Box Art" topic. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SfanGoch Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 38 minutes ago, Dave Ambrose said: What topic is this regarding? This one: There are a lot of others which were locked for the same reasons. Seriously, is such heavy-handed monitoring really necessary? If somebody doesn't find a thread interesting, he wouldn't bother posting in it.Why should somebody else make that decision for that person, and others, based on his personal feelings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, SfanGoch said: It's the same deal when a mod decides that a thread is going off-topic. If The original poster doesn't have a problem with the direction a thread is heading at any given moment, why should a mod make that decision for that person? That's what they volunteered to do-- moderate the discussions on this forum. Sometimes it seems action is taken too quickly, but I have seen (and been a part of) topics when action was taken too late and things escalated very quickly. 1 hour ago, SfanGoch said: Why should somebody else make that decision for that person, and others, based on his personal feelings? Because Gregg trusts their judgement and their ability to decide what's best for the forum membership as a whole. An individual mod's decision may agree or disagree with their own personal opinion, but again, it's about what's best for the forum first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SfanGoch Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) The thread in question was nowhere near to turning uncivil. It was about bad box art and everyone seemed to have fun commenting on the subject. It would have naturally run its course in due time, just as other topics have done without any assistance. This particular thread will face the same fate. My comment might be the last on the topic; or, there could be more. I might not necessarily agree with your, or others' sentiments; but, I respect your right to express them. That's what debate and discussion is about. Besides, I doubt that discussing something as quirky as bad model box art would erupt int verbal warfare since everyone is pretty much in agreement as to what bad box art is. If there were to be an additional 150 comments about it, great. Conversely, if nobody else replied, that's great too. The members would have made a decision either way without killing each other in the process. It doesn't require a mod to make a judgment call on something as mundane as this. Dig into the site and you'll find many more far less interesting or entertaining threads which live on and can be resurrected at any time by someone who does find, for whatever reason, the topic is still of interest to them. We know there are members who do pull up old discussions which others have lost interest in and brought them back to life by adding their new thoughts and insights. It doesn't mean that the topic was worth bring back; but, that one person felt it did. Why should this one be any different? It's one thing to exercise one's judgment; but, the threshold for determining when a thread should be locked has been lowered too far. A healthy debate that isn't turning nasty shouldn't be shut down based on the presumption that it might head in that direction. If the criteria used is that narrow and blanketly applied, then, just about every thread is liable to be preemptively locked. If it hasn't devolved to the point of personal attacks or impolite comments, don't blindly assume that it will. If it does, contact a mod to look into it. Edited August 5, 2018 by SfanGoch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reegs Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 It looked to me like it was becoming a pissing contest over what is and what isn't art, which had nothing to do with goofy-looking box covers. If you want to sit around the kitchen table drinking beer while eating crackers and cheese and letting the conversation drift, set up a separate thread for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTrucker Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 The first time I saw the start of personal jabs I quit following it. It was becoming a slapping match and would have turned into a slugging match. All the moderator did was stop it be for it accelerated and kept members from getting themselves in hot water. I know would be some members response to that will or would be but it is a judgement call not unlike an ump making a close call at the plate. Some won't like it but it is what it is. He's just doing his job and a thankless job most of the time at that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Battista Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, Reegs said: It looked to me like it was becoming a pissing contest over what is and what isn't art, which had nothing to do with goofy-looking box covers. If you want to sit around the kitchen table drinking beer while eating crackers and cheese and letting the conversation drift, set up a separate thread for it. I agree.. had nothing to do with "crappy model car box art" 30 minutes ago, OldTrucker said: The first time I saw the start of personal jabs I quit following it. It was becoming a slapping match and would have turned into a slugging match. All the moderator did was stop it be for it accelerated and kept members from getting themselves in hot water. I know would be some members response to that will or would be but it is a judgement call not unlike an ump making a close call at the plate. Some won't like it but it is what it is. He's just doing his job and a thankless job most of the time at that! Same here..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I agree that it was the right choice to close that thread. And being a mod is a thankless job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xingu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I will just give you my thoughts on this particular thread and on moderating in general. It will be a rambling post. The thread in question started with bad language, which in turn let other posters think they could use worse language in their replies. Those were removed and warning points issued. It morphed into an objective argument of what is good and what is bad as far as model box art (which has been discussed here several times). Then it became an objective argument of what is good and what is bad art in general. Then it was quickly becoming an argument between two members. So it was locked down, before it got any worse and before others could add to the argument. Moderating is objective and we try to keep an open mind when reading/reviewing posts. We don't see everything and really appreciate when other members report things that break a forum rule or look like they are going to jump the rail. In general most people keep things civil and know how to keep things on topic. Once an argument starts brewing things tend to get out of hand quickly. Some of the same folks that get mad at a thread being locked are quick to point out when something is allowed to go on to long, keeping in mind that none of these folks will report a thread/post when things start to get out of hand. There are folks that regularly post negative things about the magazine, the forum, Gregg and the mods. We still let those folks (mostly) participate here. Post bad things about the magazine/forum/owners/employees at the other big model car site, let me know how long it actually stayed up. There are some folks that post comments looking to encourage a negative response to add fuel to a simmering argument. Most folks want to come here and read about and look at models, they don't want to see all the bickering, personal attacks and way off topic discussions that start to fill the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 I just read the entire thread in question, and I'm frankly apalled that anyone, especially an adult male, would be getting uneasy due to the "heated nature" of the verbal exchanges. You've got to be kidding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Xingu said: ...It morphed into an objective argument of what is good and what is bad as far as model box art (which has been discussed here several times). Then it became an objective argument of what is good and what is bad art in general. Moderating is objective and we try to keep an open mind when reading/reviewing posts... Correction: OBJECTIVE is something that's black-and-white, fact based, like 2+2=4 SUBJECTIVE, which is the word I believe you want, is inherently in the eye of the beholder, open to interpretation, subject to the individual's opinions and mindset, not fact-based. Subjective refers to personal perspectives, feelings, or opinions entering the decision making process. Objective refers to the elimination of subjective perspectives and a process that is purely based on hard facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xingu Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 You are correct. That is what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffdeoranut Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 everyone has the right to express their opinion-civilized people do this w/o it turning into a personal attack. don't like a post-just don't respond. perhaps a better title for the box art post would have been: bad examples of packaging not illustrating the product well. as far as art goes-nobody knows what art is...in other words art cant be measured and opinions about art are completely subjective. imho the mod should just warn/ban the people who post personal attacks BUT as pointed out the mods have a thankless duty and its their call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 12 hours ago, SfanGoch said: I get it when a thread is on the verge of becoming a cyber-knife fight and gets locked to prevent any further escalation of tempers. But , JeezusMaryJoseph, why should a thread get shut down because a mod is tired of it? That's like taking the ball home because you don't feel like playing anymore even if it wasn't your ball to begin with. Everybody else was having a good time with it; so, what's the point of locking it? As long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks aimed at forum members, what's the harm in letting any thread run its course on its own? When, and if, people get tired of the topic, it'll fade into the back pages by itself. It's the same deal when a mod decides that a thread is going off-topic. If The original poster doesn't have a problem with the direction a thread is heading at any given moment, why should a mod make that decision for that person? Not for nothing, normal conversations within a group of people usually stay on topic for a while; but, somewhere along the line, it will digress into other things not relevant to the original subject. This is temporary and the conversation is righted on its own. Why should it be any different on a forum? People are discussing things in relative real time and things like digressing from a topic will occur. This type of excessive hall monitoring puts a damper on enjoying this forum. I can understand a certain level of frustration with the moderating team, but frankly this is probably the best the place has been handled as a whole in awhile. This place would regularly erupt into personal thermonuclear flame wars in the years prior to you joining. The current level of moderation is informed by the past track record of proving that in fact people here can't act like mature grown adults. Which was exacerbated by the management playing favorites, never handing out warnings and/or suspending people. This forum is devoid of a number of talented builders because of how it was managed in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Reegs said: It looked to me like it was becoming a pissing contest over what is and what isn't art, which had nothing to do with goofy-looking box covers. Exactly this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshaver Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 15 hours ago, SfanGoch said: I get it when a thread is on the verge of becoming a cyber-knife fight and gets locked to prevent any further escalation of tempers. But , JeezusMaryJoseph, why should a thread get shut down because a mod is tired of it? That's like taking the ball home because you don't feel like playing anymore even if it wasn't your ball to begin with. Everybody else was having a good time with it; so, what's the point of locking it? As long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks aimed at forum members, what's the harm in letting any thread run its course on its own? When, and if, people get tired of the topic, it'll fade into the back pages by itself. It's the same deal when a mod decides that a thread is going off-topic. If The original poster doesn't have a problem with the direction a thread is heading at any given moment, why should a mod make that decision for that person? Not for nothing, normal conversations within a group of people usually stay on topic for a while; but, somewhere along the line, it will digress into other things not relevant to the original subject. This is temporary and the conversation is righted on its own. Why should it be any different on a forum? People are discussing things in relative real time and things like digressing from a topic will occur. This type of excessive hall monitoring puts a damper on enjoying this forum. Yep, course there are many here who NO use bein in the position I have seen them in too .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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