Any up dates on the Moebius chevy II gasser ?

[1972coronet]

  On 5/6/2021 at 2:43 PM, Mr. Metallic said:

The white plastic test shots shared by Mr Metzner at the top of pg 4 means that the tooling has been cut. Not that it can't be changed still, but the tooling has definitely been cut.

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You are indeed correct ; I stand corrected. Begs the question : Is the stock hardtop's die already cut ? ( asking in-general , not you specifically ) . 

[Justin Porter]

  On 5/6/2021 at 3:43 PM, Chuck Kourouklis said:

Well sure, Tim, and yours is very pretty. The 'Cuda at least has the advantage of errors in excess, where you can knock off the stuff that doesn't look like a 'Cuda - from the wheel arches to the drip molding height to the front fender mass - till you get a better result. As you demonstrate, it's those of us who see these things and point them out who have an actual track record of fixing them.

But we have DECADES and innumerable examples now laying bare the folly of all this righteous heckling about picking on a kit before it's even released.

Some of us fall all over ourselves to declare WE'RE STILL INTERESTED IN THE KIT despite what we see. It's a topical discussion. It's on point. And still you have people trying to dictate to everyone else how we need to sanitize the conversation, gaslighting about things like the whole "accepting mediocrity" angle when that was only ever brought up as self-defense in the first place.

The beat goes on.

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The more I look at the side window opening on this body the more it seems bizarrely off and the more I question "How did this happen?" I mean, I can get things like scaled examples of compound curves being a little open to interpretation but this is literally the distance between two parallel lines divided by 25.  

[tim boyd]

  On 5/6/2021 at 3:53 PM, Snake45 said:

Tim, your wheel openings look amazing! If I can find the mag locally, I just might buy it JUST to see how you accomplished that. 

Still, there's just something about the whole front end of that kit that doesn't look right to me--just doesn't look like a '70 Cuda front end--and I cannot quite put my finger on just what it is. Maybe the bumper doesn't protrude enough? Maybe the top line of the front fenders tapers down too much, or too quickly? I need to put some serious research into this, as I have at least two copies of this kit and no desire to build either of them until I can figure out how to fix it. 

 

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Richard....you sure found some nice images of 'cudas there....

Some of the mods I did on my project involved lowering the top of the front fender lines and smoothing that operation into the remainder of the fendertops/hood.  Also, my mods were based in part on comparing the Revell body to the original MPC bod which I still think is the best for overall proportions (thought it too has some issues in the execution of some of its' detail applications).  Anyway, hope you can find the mag....

Probably better not add any further comments as this thread is about the new Moebius kits and I have probably already departed too much from that subject line....ooopppsss.....TIM  

[tim boyd]

  On 5/6/2021 at 3:53 PM, Snake45 said:

Tim, your wheel openings look amazing! If I can find the mag locally, I just might buy it JUST to see how you accomplished that. 

Still, there's just something about the whole front end of that kit that doesn't look right to me--just doesn't look like a '70 Cuda front end--and I cannot quite put my finger on just what it is. Maybe the bumper doesn't protrude enough? Maybe the top line of the front fenders tapers down too much, or too quickly? I need to put some serious research into this, as I have at least two copies of this kit and no desire to build either of them until I can figure out how to fix it. 

 

 

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Mods....please remove this double post...still learning new forum software....sorry...TB 

Edited May 6, 2021 by tim boyd
double post in error...

[SteveG]

  On 5/4/2021 at 4:20 PM, Mark said:

I don't think the top is chopped, so much as I'm thinking the windshield opening isn't tall enough at the top.  If you look at photos of 1:1 sedans, the top of the molding around the windshield is about level with the top of the drip rail over the doors.  It might be the molding is thicker than it needs to be, it might be that the opening could be filed open a bit higher (say, to the top of the existing molding) and a new upper molding added or scribed in.  Yes, it would be nice to not have to do it, but this doesn't look like a deal killer by any stretch of the imagination.

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I agree with Mark, most of the issue is in the windshield opening,  Dave is aware of it and will work to get it corrected.  That's the point of test shots is to look for issues before production ramps up.  Although not everything is necessarily correctable after the tooling is cut, I think this one will get fixed.  

-Steve

  

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 5/6/2021 at 10:31 PM, SteveG said:

I agree with Mark, most of the issue is in the windshield opening,  Dave is aware of it and will work to get it corrected.  That's the point of test shots is to look for issues before production ramps up.  Although not everything is necessarily correctable after the tooling is cut, I think this one will get fixed.  

-Steve

  

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One needs to remember there are two types of fixs required on molds. In the novas case  removal of mold material is necessary to fix the roof. In the cases of the barracuda the flares would require adding material and then redoing the flares. A much more involved and expensive process.

Hopefully the 3d prints will show issues to be dealt with before the molds are cut. Then its a matter of adjusting the computer files. Also if more scanning is done we have seen that better results are possible.

 

[oldrevellfan]

I think, that the dasboard is too hight, too, it reduce the windshield....

[Force]

  On 5/6/2021 at 1:06 AM, 1972coronet said:

At least those are test shots ( first one a 3-D print ) , so corrections can be made before the dies are cut . 

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  On 5/6/2021 at 2:43 PM, Mr. Metallic said:

The white plastic test shots shared by Mr Metzner at the top of pg 4 means that the tooling has been cut. Not that it can't be changed still, but the tooling has definitely been cut.

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  On 5/6/2021 at 4:43 PM, 1972coronet said:

You are indeed correct ; I stand corrected. Begs the question : Is the stock hardtop's die already cut ? ( asking in-general , not you specifically ) . 

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Yes, it's hard to do a pre production test shot without tooling to shoot molten plastic through. 
So of course it's allready been cut and they have to modify the tooling insert for the body to correct the flaws wich they can do if they want to.
I think the 3D print of this kit had better body proportions and the wind shield opening looks a lot better.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Force

[Classicgas]

I can tell you this, a lot of work went into that 3D print. I work in a 3D print shop, and it takes alot of work to get anything 3D printed to look that good.

[charlie8575]

  On 5/9/2021 at 8:09 AM, Force said:

 

 

Yes, it's hard to do a pre production test shot without tooling to shoot molten plastic through. 
So of course it's allready been cut and they have to modify the tooling insert for the body to correct the flaws wich they can do if they want to.
I think the 3D print of this kit had better body proportions and the wind shield opening looks a lot better.

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A new trend is catching on in other parts of the plastics industry, and it's something the model manufacturers would be wise to adopt, too.

Many manufacturers of different items are now 3-D printing the moulds themselves prior to picking up a piece of metal and putting it in the mill.

The purpose of the 3-D printed mould is to test plastic flow, and also to inspect parts. The cost of doing this isn't cheap, but it's not particularly expensive, either, and the extra QA checks will help head off these kind of problems.

Charlie Larkin

Edited May 11, 2021 by charlie8575

[slusher]

  On 5/11/2021 at 4:30 AM, charlie8575 said:

A new trend is catching on in other parts of the plastics industry, and it's something the model manufacturers would be wise to adopt, too.

Many manufacturers of different items are now 3-D printing the moulds themselves prior to picking up a piece of metal and putting it in the mill.

The purpose of the 3-D printed mould is to test plastic flow, and also to inspect parts. The cost of doing this isn't cheap, but it's not particularly expensive, either, and the extra QA checks will help head off these kind of problems.

Charlie Larkin

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Is this really going to happen?

[Force]

  On 5/11/2021 at 4:30 AM, charlie8575 said:

A new trend is catching on in other parts of the plastics industry, and it's something the model manufacturers would be wise to adopt, too.

Many manufacturers of different items are now 3-D printing the moulds themselves prior to picking up a piece of metal and putting it in the mill.

The purpose of the 3-D printed mould is to test plastic flow, and also to inspect parts. The cost of doing this isn't cheap, but it's not particularly expensive, either, and the extra QA checks will help head off these kind of problems.

Charlie Larkin

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Well I don't know how the plastic industy works nowadays and what Moebius had to their disposal when they did the test shot of this kit so I can't tell for sure.
But as most model companies have done it up to now at least is to cut the tooling in metal and shoot plastic through it, and maybe modify afterwards if needed...but that could have changed.

[charlie8575]

  On 5/11/2021 at 12:18 PM, slusher said:

Is this really going to happen?

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I can't speak for others, but if I had a kit manufacturing company, I would insist on it. Saves money and hassles in the long run.

Charlie Larkin

[bobthehobbyguy]

I think that given the current market for the models it makes the l

Most sense to do one 3d print before cutting the molds.  Changes in the mold can be expensive. If there is an issue like the exaggerated flares on the cudea it requires adding material and redoing.. if you have something like a chopped top you need to remove material from the molds to fix the probably. Eitger way it is important to identify issues before the molds are cut.

[dodgefever]

  On 5/6/2021 at 3:53 PM, Snake45 said:

Still, there's just something about the whole front end of that kit that doesn't look right to me--just doesn't look like a '70 Cuda front end--and I cannot quite put my finger on just what it is. Maybe the bumper doesn't protrude enough?

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Aside from the chubby fenders, the thing that leaps out at me is that the headlamp surrounds need to be recessed more into the grille, and the headlamps themselves should be recessed in the surrounds.   They're almost flush in the kit.  The bumper definitely looks odd too.

Re the Chevy II, the windshield header is too low relative to the side windows, the roof looks too thick and the top is chopped overall.  Look at the proportions of the rectangular door window versus the real thing.

[Fabrux]

https://m.facebook.com/groups/192098637494309/permalink/4234060359964763/?sfnsn=mo

[Sledsel]

  On 5/5/2021 at 2:51 PM, Draggon said:

Your right about the windshield. But I don't know about the top overall, it sure looks chopped to me. And the top just looks real "thick" compared to the real thing. 

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I like it but the roof is too low and on top of that the windshield itself is too low. In the pic Daggon posted it is clear on both issues. Windshield is an easy fix, but raising the roof not so much.

Also, in my blue oval tinted eyes, the rear window is off. Could be photo angle, but it does not look right to me. would be an easy fix none-the-less.

Could be me, but the tail lights look to small

On the fence now about it. I'll decide if is something I want in my stash after I see some builds.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sledsel

[Can-Con]

I see some here saying that it should be relatively easy to fix the chopped top on the Nova, as it just means removing material from the mold

BUT,, they seem to forget that material would need to be added to the inner part of the mold to make up for the added height of the roof. 

If not, the roof panel would be very thick and the window openings couldn't be made correctly.

[Classicgas]

It's a test shot. I'm pretty sure corrections will be made. 

[niteowl7710]

  On 7/7/2021 at 10:04 PM, Classicgas said:

It's a test shot. I'm pretty sure corrections will be made. 

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People always say that, but I think the evidence has born out over the past several years that in fact WYSIWYG when it comes to these things. I can't think of a major retool that's occured from forum/public "outcry" in the social media age. The Ole stories of the 61 Impala and '69 Charger are from a previous age where you actually had to buy the kit, or rely on print media (SAe) to know what you were getting.

[Luc Janssens]

  On 7/8/2021 at 6:01 AM, niteowl7710 said:

People always say that, but I think the evidence has born out over the past several years that in fact WYSIWYG when it comes to these things. I can't think of a major retool that's occured from forum/public "outcry" in the social media age. The Ole stories of the 61 Impala and '69 Charger are from a previous age where you actually had to buy the kit, or rely on print media (SAe) to know what you were getting.

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Still find it odd, that prints from the 3D files didn't show the mentioned deviations from the design of OEM.

IIRC the same thing happened with the Ford Cabs....eerie

 

 

 

[Classicgas]

  On 7/8/2021 at 6:01 AM, niteowl7710 said:

People always say that, but I think the evidence has born out over the past several years that in fact WYSIWYG when it comes to these things. I can't think of a major retool that's occured from forum/public "outcry" in the social media age. The Ole stories of the 61 Impala and '69 Charger are from a previous age where you actually had to buy the kit, or rely on print media (SAe) to know what you were getting.

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Whatever.  I lived through both those kits first Incorrectly done tooling and returned both for corrected tools.  Revell is significantly delaying the jaguar  coupe for a minor problem.  If I'm proven wrong so be it but I like to think positively. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Classicgas

[niteowl7710]

  On 7/8/2021 at 10:30 PM, Classicgas said:

Whatever.  I lived through both those kits first Incorrectly done tooling and returned both for corrected tools.  Revell is significantly delaying the jaguar  coupe for a minor problem.  If I'm proven wrong so be it but I like to think positively. 

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Yeah we all did, and you know how long ago that was? It was so long ago that both of those kits were manufactured here in the U.S. That's how long ago that was...two owners of Lindberg and three owners of Revell ago.

You know what wasn't fixed? The '69 Nova, the, '57 Ford, the '67 Camaro, the '70 Cuda, and famously the '92 Mustang to name a few Revell "DoN't JuDGe tHE TeSt ShOTs" gems.  Moebius never dealt with their Mopars, the F Series or the Pontiacs which all still have same shape, proportion and fit issues as they did when we saw them the first time. 

I should point I understand why, it's all a matter of budgets, deadlines and the 99% rule - Eg 99% of people would never notice the problems, and nearly nobody who ever sees the built model will see it next to the 1:1 to compare it to in person. 

BTW that Jag...for some reason Michael's of all places has it in stock.. It's still molded in Red. Remember the red plastic was supposedly the problem? Now maybe the plastic has been reformulated to run at the specs of the mold machine, or maybe the top insert of the tools has the injection points and flow rate fiddled with, but the big fix rumor of the roof height? Big fat NOPE with that one folks.

So you can try to be a dismissive as you want to be, but the overwhelming evidence says - Whatever...Enjoy this how you see it, because that's how you're going to get it.

[Luc Janssens]

  On 7/9/2021 at 2:35 AM, niteowl7710 said:

BTW that Jag...for some reason Michael's of all places has it in stock.. It's still molded in Red. Remember the red plastic was supposedly the problem? Now maybe the plastic has been reformulated to run at the specs of the mold machine, or maybe the top insert of the tools has the injection points and flow rate fiddled with.

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Talked with someone who knows a thing or two about injection molding, and he said; This is most likely caused by heater band temps on molding machine set too low,, plastic is "setting" before mold cycle is complete..

I'm sure stuff like that happens all the time when putting a new tool into production, but such a deviation should be caught by the production operator or QC, before the product goes to the packaging line.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Luc Janssens

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 7/9/2021 at 2:35 AM, niteowl7710 said:

 

I should point I understand why, it's all a matter of budgets, deadlines and the 99% rule - Eg 99% of people would never notice the problems, and nearly nobody who ever sees the built model will see it next to the 1:1 to compare it to in person. 

 

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Right on the money.