AMT and MPC Please Put Out Significant Kits

[dodgefever]

LOL, did someone have my last post removed?  Jesus wept. 

[Motor City]

Speaking as someone who started buying and building models in 1965, I think I see how Round 2 is operating.  Like me, many serious collectors don't want multiple versions of the same car.  They want one of a particular model that can be built and look professional parked alongside other kits and promotional models that he or she happens to have.  For example, when I was younger, I drove a '68 Buick Wildcat.  Would I like to see a model of one?  Of course, but it's not likely to happen.  Instead, I have the '64, '65, '66, '69 and '70 Wildcats.  Round 2 thinks it can attract enough buyers who want to replace a model they messed up when they were younger, or build Dad's, Grandpa's, or (fill in the blank)'s favorite car.    

Then there are what I consider to be hard core modelers, many of whom participate on this forum.  These are people who want to buy multiple copies of the same kit to build different customized versions, try different color schemes,  or just like the variation in box art from the different releases over the years.  I know some guys who collect promos in every color combination offered of a particular car.  I am not being critical of any of this.  Possibly the principals of Round 2 reads this forum and foam at the mouth when reading comments such as, "if they come out with the such-and-such, I'll buy a whole case!".  How many people would really buy a whole case to build all of them?  Probably no one, but if adding pad-printed tires, additional decals, or different wheels gets repeat buyers for something re-issued several years ago that they had already purchased, then Round 2 wins and so does the consumer.  If we get lucky, maybe they will do well enough to come out with some entirely new kits.      

[Richard Bartrop]

Fortunately, there are other companies who are happy to make new kits.   I also like that Round 2 is giving us another chance at some old favourites.   Not everyone can, or even wants to, shell out collector prices on eBay, and not everyone already has a basement full of these kits already.

[gui_tarzan]

Last winter I purchased a 3D printer to try out. I figured I'm pretty good with most mechanical devices, this shouldn't be that difficult. Right? Well... the machine isn't the hard part, the software is. I tried several free programs and a few trial commercial programs with many more features and capabilities. I can draw by hand pretty well but trying to draw things with a mouse is far harder than I ever imagined. Trying to figure out the commercial CAD software is extremely frustrating to me, I can't figure out how to get the programs to do what I want and I don't have the hundreds of hours required to learn it. Whoever said this stuff is easy is either geared to use things like that or completely off-base and hasn't tried it. Guys like Joseph at Fireball who have the capability to use that software will do very well, guys like me who don't will just end up buying their parts. The DLP printers ARE far superior to the PLA/ABS/etc plastic printers due to the stepped application of the media and you will always have to do some sanding on the parts to get them right. Having said that, there are professional printers that do a really, really nice job but none of them can match DLP or injection molding. Also, with DLP printers you're dealing with some hazardous materials that aren't exactly cheap, but they do produce nice parts. Injection molding for the masses, in my opinion, will not happen because of the high pressures and temperatures of the machines. Yes it would be nice, but if it were that easy or that cheap everyone would be doing it. Maybe in another 10-15 years IF the market increases substantially. 

Another thought, thin resin bodies or body parts are not necessarily a good thing. Most of us have experienced warpage with them and there is a reason most cast bodies are thicker than their styrene counterparts. Of course there are many different types of resin, some of which would be stronger, it really takes a lot of trial and error to find a balance between sturdiness and workability versus how quickly they tear up silicone molds. 

I don't have a problem with the re-releases by the companies that are still around, they have to make money somehow in order to make new tools. And if they don't make new tools, at least we have the ability to mix and match, create our own, and so on to keep the hobby going. We really have had it pretty good for a long time, especially with Revell and Moebius releasing new tooling to keep us interested. It could be worse, all of the companies could be gone. There is that to think about.

[Richard Bartrop]

Yes, drawing with a mouse is a pain, which, is why the first thing graphic artists do is get a tablet.  Programs like Illustrator that use Bezier curves aen't as intuitive as a more conventional drawing program, but it's  lot easier to make something with a mouse.

 

And yes, learning this stuff is going to take time.  The first time you put together a model, did it look like one of Time Boyd's?   I'm going to guess the answer is no.   No software is ever going to just let you just push a button and create a masterpiece.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Richard Bartrop

[Force]

I don't have a problem with re-releases either and all companies have to reissue kits now and then and it's good for newcomers, but if you have been in this hobby for 45+ years as I have you tend to have what you want of the reissues they have put out recently and I have not bought many of the reissues Round 2 have come out with lately as I allready have an earlier version of these kits, and I woun't buy another just for tampo printed tires, other decals and new boxart and so on...but once in a while they come out with something interesting.
But as I said before...I also need something completely new to satisfy my modeling needs, it's fun to open a new kit you have never seen before and look at the contents, plan how you're going to build it and so on.
Most of the old kits I would like to see reissued, like the old annuals for example, the tools are modified beyond repair and can't be issued in it's original form anymore.

regular guy wrote:

*Okay. Here is a possible solution.

A partner ship between AMT and a model maker resin caster. A model maker is the one who makes the original part.

1 AMT sends over what they have. Parts or spec's.

2 Parts get made.

3 Resin caster runs off small production run.

4 Sends them back to AMT.

5 They sell them as licensed resin parts.*

I don't think that will happen as you like to think because you can't do it cost effective, if the companies thought they could do it that way and make a good profit from it it would allready have been done, and there are many resin casters and 3D printers who offer lots of parts and kits so you can buy almost all you want on the aftermarket as it is.
Plus as you said yourself, you can get engines and other stuff on ebay...and buying a complete kit with parts you want is most of the time pretty much the same price as if the parts would be offered separately from the manufacturers and you get lots of parts for your spare parts bin for future use...and the things you don't need you can allways try to sell on ebay.
 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Force

[bobthehobbyguy]

For resin casting there are limits to how many parts that can be made(about 50 is the limit).  Current production on model kits is 5000.  There are limited situations that resin casting would work.

One reason the parts packs failed was kits cost $2 and the parts parts were 69 cents(it took 5 parts packs to build a model). The big difference in price was cost for packaging. This will always be the case when it comes to parts.

However the info on 3d printing and less expensive injection molds will certainly change the way some kits were made.

As far a the software.  The person who finds a way to make friendlier image modeling software will be able to make same good money.

There have been some progress made with programming to use a graphical approach to programming.  It will take a similar approach for printer software.

 

[regular guy]

 

Haken and Bob

Good posts!

All I am saying is for Round 2 to service the Advanced modeler.

Call them what you want. Experienced modeler? Senior modeler?

There is no perfect parts pack.Too many kinds of builds. Drag. Customizing.

Okay. I guess AMT parts packs as is are for the Advanced modeler.

I suppose the Kat's collection kits are for the advanced modeler.

Problem is they only put out one Kat's Collection per year.

Okay. Then some kits they do make an effort to put every extra part ever made for it in the kit. Like the Mod Rod.

And their articles about a new kit are probably for Advanced builders.

Think I will just leave it lie for now.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Lotsa naysayers out there when it comes to home injection molding. Well fellers, here's one cool little machine that is capable of making multiple small parts FAST. And it's scalable, which in this case simply means that larger machines are relatively easy to scale-up to make larger parts...like bodies or complete sprues.

This technology is another example of a direction short runs of parts or kits could go in, to be done by small companies...or individuals...without the heavy capital investment usually associated with injection molding.

This obviously blows the doors off of making small parts by resin casting, with average cycle times of 12 seconds.

A lot more things are POSSIBLE than are actually done, but often, all it takes is somebody with the desire, knowledge, and skill to prove the "it can't be done" crowd wrong.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Also, as far as modeling in 3D to develop the files necessary to drive a 3D printer or CNC cutter of injection molds, the fella I know here in town has been importing all kinds of info into his design software for starting points. One of his late '60's Italian sports cars, not available anywhere on the planet from any kit manufacturer, began life as an image in the Grand Theft Auto game.

Yes, it takes some skill and out-of-the-box thinking to do stuff like that, but again, just as the model companies as we know them were created by enthusiasts who were primarily driven...in the beginning...to DO SOMETHING, and not just looking for a quick profit, there are people working NOW who really love this hobby, and are creating a new wave of capability and opportunity.

[aurfalien]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Lotsa naysayers out there when it comes to home injection molding. Well fellers, here's one cool little machine that is capable of making multiple small parts FAST. And it's scalable, which in this case simply means that larger machines are relatively easy to scale-up to make larger parts...like bodies or complete sprues.

This technology is another example of a direction short runs of parts or kits could go in, to be done by small companies...or individuals...without the heavy capital investment usually associated with injection molding.

This obviously blows the doors off of making small parts by resin casting, with average cycle times of 12 seconds.

A lot more things are POSSIBLE than are actually done, but often, all it takes is somebody with the desire, knowledge, and skill to prove the "it can't be done" crowd wrong.

 

Wow!

Another wonderful gem of info.  Thank you sir.  This is indeed exciting!

Makes me wanna open a scale model business just so I can use the machine, create models, etc...

Looks really fun.

Edited November 10, 2018 by aurfalien

[gtx6970]

On 11/6/2018 at 11:23 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

Oh good.

More '32 Fords!

 

Steve

sarcasm meter detected

[Ace-Garageguy]

More info on "soft" tooling for injection molding...tremendous cost savings can be achieved, especially for short runs and in conjunction with 3D printing.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Deuces]

Cool..... ?

[bobthehobbyguy]

Definitely exciting information.  Looking forward to see where this goes. Thanks for the info Ace.

[250 Testa Rossa]

It would be nice to also see the Cosma Ray 

[Richard Bartrop]

That is pretty amazing

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, gtx6970 said:

sarcasm meter detected

Yeah, a little.

I guess I wonder why it always has to be a Model A or '32 Ford.

There were other cars made in the 20s & 30s.

Lots of them.

And very interesting ones.

Wouldn't it be just as easy, & a nice change of pace, to customize a Buick or a Dodge or any of a million other cars for a change?

 

Steve

[Snake45]

3 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Yeah, a little.

I guess I wonder why it always has to be a Model A or '32 Ford.

There were other cars made in the 20s & 30s.

Lots of them.

And very interesting ones.

Wouldn't it be just as easy, & a nice change of pace, to customize a Buick or a Dodge or any of a million other cars for a change?

 

Steve

When I was a kid, a guy on my paper route sometimes had a hot rod in his driveway (otherwise hidden away in a garage). I believe I eventually found out it was a '33 or '34 Plymouth. I always thought THAT was a hella cool looking car, and I'd buy and build a model of that. 

[Richard Bartrop]

Pyro did some '30s vintage Chryslers and Plymouths, but they wee in 1/32 scale.   I imagine trying to make a 1/25 kit out of them would be a major undertaking.

I certainly wouldn't object if Round2 were to bring back MPC's beautiful but finicky '32 Imperial.

[Bob Ellis]

I liked AMT/MPC when ERTL owned it. Now the game is different. It is what it is.

[regular guy]

 

Here's a list of what Round 2 has put out that I think are what they should be putting out.

Mercury Maraunder

Kat's Kollection Hippie Hemi

40 Ford Coupe

32 Victoria Would have been better with boxart wtih features on side of box.

60 Ford Starliner

62 Buick Electra 225

That will do for now.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by regular guy

[Greg Myers]

[regular guy]

 

Gregg

That's the idea!

I changed the post to keep it simple.

But yeah. Round2 should put out more Wow! kits and less dreck.

[dbostream]

I am fine with R2 reissuing old kits but sure it would be nice with at least one new tool each year. I wonder if we will ever see the MPC Toyota 2000 GT again it is really expensive on Ebay.