Unnecessary use of Technology

[Rob Hall]

My Jeep has remote start, think I’ve used it once or twice.    I like the backup camera. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Rob Hall

[imarriedawitch]

I had a young woman freak out on me in a parking lot. I got within a couple of inches of her car as I backed out of my spot. She thought I had backed out blindly and didn't know she was there and started honking her horn to get my attention. I had to explain to her with the back up camera I had her in my sights all the way. She still wasn't happy.

[NOBLNG]

10 hours ago, Xingu said:

Imagine if you are handicapped and technology like this allows you to have a more normal life. Sure some of it seems useless to most folks, but it could allow others to be much more independent.

I did think that it would be a nice feature for someone who was handicapped as I was posting this. There was nobody like that in the commercial though.

21 hours ago, Russell C said:

Wait 'til all these smart items become self-aware. Then how are ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm?

I am currently watching a series called “Next” about A.I. that has become self aware....it is a frightening possibility. One that I hope doesn’t happen in my lifetime...or ever.

[NOBLNG]

On 12/18/2020 at 8:00 PM, iamsuperdan said:

For me, it's the tech in vehicles.

It scares me that people are learning to drive by using backup cameras and park sensors instead of their own eyes. And now cars can park themselves, stay within the lanes on the highway, emergency brake, etc. People learning to drive now will end up being lost if they get into a slightly used car.

I remember thinking when anti-Iock brakes came out, that they wouldn’t stop as quickly as an experienced driver could without them, but  I think if you need all the newer “safety” features to get where you’re going safely...you should be taking the bus. I do like the backup camera on my truck however.

[peteski]

I believe that backup cameras are required equipment on all new cars sold in USA (and have been that way for few years).   I'm ok with that, as long as they still give me the rear view mirrors inside, and on both doors.  I use all those features as-needed.  MY GF's new car has cameras up the wazoo!  When backing up there is a split screen view on the dash display: One side shows the rear view with the guiding lines which move with the steering wheel, and the other half shows what I call a "drone view".  It shows her car as if it would look from 20' up over it.  It is a computer generated composite image which combines a simulated view of the car with the 4 cameras around the car. It looks as if it was being transmitted by a drone hovering over the car.  Backing up feels like playing a video game!  It also stays on when driving slowly forward (with the front and top view).  And her car is just a Hyundai Tucson.  Some of the higher end cars have so many features, they'll make your head spin.

But I'm not too crazy about the "fly by wire" throttle, or electric power steering that can actually steer the car on its own.  I'm old-school I guess.  And even the most current anti-lock brakes can be a pain, especially when going through a puddle or on snowy/icy road.  Compared to properly manually modulated application of brakes, they increase braking distance.   I have verified this many times (especially on snow and ice).  But I guess if a clueless panicky driver is behind the wheel, they are better than a pedal-to-the-floor.

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 hours ago, peteski said:

 ...But I guess if a clueless panicky driver is behind the wheel, they are better than a pedal-to-the-floor.

Which is exactly what all this overly-complex claptrap is training an entire generation of drivers to be.

Can't parallel park. Can't back-up without radar and cameras. Can't check their own oil, tire pressures, coolant, or washer fluid. Can't change a flat, or jump a dead battery. And pretty much forget about changing their own oil or plugs or air filter...not to mention that less than 20% of US drivers can drive a stick.

And spare me the wrong analogy that it's just like folks not knowing how to drive a horse-drawn wagon, or ride. Having some basic understanding of and competence operating a machine you're absolutely dependent on is part of taking adult personal-responsibility for one's life outcomes...and there's no app for that.

EDIT: It can be just flat deadly, too.

A large German manufacturer of front-wheel-drive cars computer is programmed to limit throttle application when the steering wheel is turned. Fine for your basic shouldn't-be-driving-anyway moron I guess, but if you find somebody barreling at you while they're checking their texts and need to stab the throttle and crank the wheel to get out of their way, you're toast.

The knowledgeable enthusiasts driving these things go into the computer and disable this particular "safety" feature, but it can't be turned off by a less-than-dealership-level interface, or top-line aftermarket equipment.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Ace-Garageguy

[1972coronet]

ABS has no place on light duty trucks . I periodically had to drive an F-250 with a stake bed --- the ABS hindered braking on uneven pavement (typically , warped / broken asphalt ~100' before an intersection) , as the pedal would go 'numb' and pulsate like crazy . Lord knows how many red lights I had to cruise-through because the ABS simply didn't work !  I asked the Drivability Mechanic if I could pop-out the ABS fuse or otherwise defeat the unsafe ABS , all to no avail .  

[Ace-Garageguy]

52 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

ABS has no place on light duty trucks...

Agreed. Both my older trucks have simple brake-pressure-proportioning valves that do the job very well.

One of them has linkage to a valve that increases the rear brake bias as the bed is loaded and gets lower on the suspension.

Straight mechanical systems, pretty much reliable for the life of the vehicle, and not dependent on electronic hardware and software that's going to be non-repairable as this stuff ages.

And...I've seen more than a few high-end vehicles destroyed because their incompetent operators mistakenly believed their ABS and traction-control systems would save them, no matter how stupidly they chose to behave behind the wheel.

Speaking of which...as we're forecast to possibly have snow here for Christmas, if it does indeed arrive, there will be the inevitable roadsides littered with expensive 4-wheel-drive vehicles on their roofs, in ditches, or sliding through intersections to crash into opposing traffic.

[DonW]

17 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Speaking of which...as we're forecast to possibly have snow here for Christmas, if it does indeed arrive, there will be the inevitable roadsides littered with expensive 4-wheel-drive vehicles on their roofs, in ditches, or sliding through intersections to crash into opposing traffic.

A few winters back we had to visit a friend on the west coast of Wales. He lived off a steep hill down to the sea. We parked at the top in a lay-by and walked down as the road was covered in ice with snow on top. Some local guy had decided to drive his invincible 4x4 Mercedes wagon down the hill. He made it to the bottom, but unfortunately went most of the way on his roof bouncing between the verges...

[TarheelRick]

When backing up my F-150 with camper shell I still primarily use my side mirrors, just guess I am spoiled from years of backing a school bus into its parking spot.  The real benefit of the rear-view camera comes when I am trying to connect my utility trailer to the F-150, I can get to within a couple of inches using that camera.  Sure beats backing a few inches , getting out an looking, backing a few inches getting out and looking, then realizing I have backed too far, have scratched my bumper or put a small ding into that expensive aluminum tailgate.

[Joe Handley]

I think Rick has a great point, many of these features should really just be used as tools to get the job done. The TPMS system in my 200 and Sister’s Challenger will tell us what tire is low and about what the pressures should be on each corner (just not the spares, which can be helpful AND annoying both?).
 

Dad’s new van has a back up camera in the head unit, and the couple time Little Sis and I needed loaners, this had them too, mostly in the head unit, though I did get a Journey SE-V6/AWD that had a tiny screen built into the rear view mirror since it had a more basic head unit and preferred that since my eyes would already be there. GM and LandRover also have a neat mirror set up that uses what appears to be a conventional inside mirror, but when you flip what appears to be a dimmer lever, that mirror becomes a screen that gets a direct feed from either tailgate or roof mounted cameras, GM even used the squirted system for the back window wiper on the Chevy Bolt to clean the camera with when dirty!

My 200 is the only vehicle I have spent much time behind the wheel of that has ABS, Traction Control, and Stability Control (which may be similar in function to what Dad’s new van has, since has the same drivetrain, just dragging about 1/2 ton more weight behind it), but I try to drive as though I don’t have them and turn off the traction control in dry conditions since I think it aggregates the torque steer. Traction control, unfortunately, seems to step in when I could use some wheel spin to get moving and have had stability control get involved when I felt it was at best, not needed. The problem with the T/C and S/C in all 3 vehicles is that it just cuts power and maybe plays with the braking, where at least getting a little power to the ground may be needed.

[Tom Geiger]

I’m not a fan of the rear facing camera in my Hyundai Elantra. I find I have to constantly clean the lens or it’s distorted. And it doesn’t work well with different lighting. And the screen in my dash gets washed out with glare from sunlight.

I do use it when backing up close to something.. I like the lines that show me the safe zone, and when I’m very close.

I find myself automatically going back to my 40 years of training using my mirrors. Yes I use the right side mirror. 

[High octane]

MODERN TECHNOLOGY IS DESTROYING OUR SIMPLE WAY OF LIFE.

[stavanzer]

Nick, funny you should say that.

I distinctly remember my grandfather having this exact same comment about Automatic Transmissions, Power Steering,  Air Conditioners, and Cruise Control, back about 1972.

 

The more Things Change, ect, ect........

[espo]

Our newest car has all of these driver assists and I find them very annoying for the most part. I can see the back-up cameras advantage in tight parking spots. This last weekend we went too CostCo and everyone wants to walk behind someone when they're backing out of their parking spot and other drivers are trying to ram you even if you're already half way out of your spot before they get there. At home I back my vehicles into the garage as it seems faster and safer pulling onto the street when leaving home. With the back-up camera squawking as you back into the garage it is very distracting and I back up using the rear and side view mirrors with zero issues. Do I really need Launch Control on my car ? Not at this point in my life anyway.  

[Joe Handley]

6 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

I’m not a fan of the rear facing camera in my Hyundai Elantra. I find I have to constantly clean the lens or it’s distorted. And it doesn’t work well with different lighting. And the screen in my dash gets washed out with glare from sunlight.

I do use it when backing up close to something.. I like the lines that show me the safe zone, and when I’m very close.

I find myself automatically going back to my 40 years of training using my mirrors. Yes I use the right side mirror. 

That’s what I liked about the Bolt’s set up, the cameras have dedicated washer nozzles for window solvent from the rear window washer/wiper system and it uses the center mirror as a screen as well as the head unit for those cameras. 

[webestang]

We are all going to wind up like the people in the movie "Wall-E". 

[Ace-Garageguy]

23 minutes ago, webestang said:

We are all going to wind up like the people in the movie "Wall-E". 

Going to?   

Looks to me like most folks are already there.

[peter31a]

More like we’ll end up looking like the Borg. Check out bio hacking and transhumanism.

[Bills72sj]

I live old school but work with newer technology. I am currently in residential HVAC. The newer thermostats can do some pretty cool stuff but there is too much electronics being inserted into the heating and cooling units themselves. Furnaces used to generally last 20-25 years. Today's "energy efficient" ones with variable speed everything have $1000 circuit board failures on a much too frequent basis. It leaves the home owner in the cold because I can longer simply change a common part or perform a workaround. I was starting to see the same thing in the restaurant kitchen equipment as well. (Sorry, your very important cooler is down, I have to wait for a pre programmed control board from the factory). If you are in California I am going to make a prediction. If you have a fancy wifi thermostat, the day is coming where the state will decide FOR you what temperature your house can be during high electricity demand. Just you wait and see.

[peteski]

30 minutes ago, Bills72sj said:

I live old school but work with newer technology. I am currently in residential HVAC. The newer thermostats can do some pretty cool stuff but there is too much electronics being inserted into the heating and cooling units themselves. Furnaces used to generally last 20-25 years. Today's "energy efficient" ones with variable speed everything have $1000 circuit board failures on a much too frequent basis. It leaves the home owner in the cold because I can longer simply change a common part or perform a workaround.

My thought's exactly Bill.

Last month I had to have my boiler replaced (it developed a  leak) after 21 years of problem free service.  It heats my house and provides hot water (of-boiler tankless unit) It used an old-school Honeywell aquastat with mechanical temperature sensor and hefty relays, which probably looked the same as relays built 100 years ago.

The new boiler came with a fancy new aquastat (and while the boiler brand was the same as the old one, the electrical wiring was different than what the old boiler had).  The new unit has a fancy microcontroller circuitry with a digital temperature readouts and status LEDs. I doubt it will last anywhere as long as the old Honeywell unit.  Since I'm quite able to replace the aquastat myself, I already bought a spare unit as a cheap insurance policy. Last thing I want is for the fancy circuitry dying in the middle of winter.  The burner also has a more fancy circuitry than the old one - I have to check if I can buy a spare circuit board for it too.

[Bills72sj]

10 minutes ago, peteski said:

My thought's exactly Bill.

Last month I had to have my boiler replaced (it developed a  leak) after 21 years of problem free service.  It heats my house and provides hot water (of-boiler tankless unit) It used an old-school Honeywell aquastat with mechanical temperature sensor and hefty relays, which probably looked the same as relays built 100 years ago.

The new boiler came with a fancy new aquastat (and while the boiler brand was the same as the old one, the electrical wiring was different than what the old boiler had).  The new unit has a fancy microcontroller circuitry with a digital temperature readouts and status LEDs. I doubt it will last anywhere as long as the old Honeywell unit.  Since I'm quite able to replace the aquastat myself, I already bought a spare unit as a cheap insurance policy. Last thing I want is for the fancy circuitry dying in the middle of winter.  The burner also has a more fancy circuitry than the old one - I have to check if I can buy a spare circuit board for it too.

Buy a surge suppressor that has a protection warranty. Much cheaper than most boards and it gives you recourse in the event of a power surge.

[peteski]

3 minutes ago, Bills72sj said:

Buy a surge suppressor that has a protection warranty. Much cheaper than most boards and it gives you recourse in the event of a power surge.

True (and good idea), but troubleshooting commercial grade computers for a living I know that complex electronics can fail even being protected, and for no visible reasons.

[Bills72sj]

31 minutes ago, peteski said:

True (and good idea), but troubleshooting commercial grade computers for a living I know that complex electronics can fail even being protected, and for no visible reasons.

Oh there is a viable reason. With such high parts count, it invariably increases the chance of failure.

[Bronzekeg]

I have better luck with machines when ordering medications than I do speaking to an actual person. just my experience anyway.