New EV Scout being developed after VW acquires Navistar (International Harvester)

[stitchdup]

2 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

And what makes you think that won't be a problem if you're using that electricity to make hydrogen.  If anything, you're going to need more electricity to crack hydrogen and then use it in a fuel cell or burn it in as IC engine.

the hydrogen facilities where i am all use solar and wind power. they are self contained units that dont plug into the grid so can be placed anywhere. most of them are the size of a small shipping container and can easily be mounted on a trailer. this size of facility is enough to fill up 25 heavy trucks a day and theres one that powers a ferry.

[lordairgtar]

These were the same arguments that horse breeders, carriage and wagon makers and leather tanners (buggy whips and tops), horse feed producers and horse boarding/black smiths used when automobiles came on the scene. Only hardware and dry goods stores sold fuel of any kind then.

[Richard Bartrop]

41 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

the hydrogen facilities where i am all use solar and wind power. they are self contained units that dont plug into the grid so can be placed anywhere. most of them are the size of a small shipping container and can easily be mounted on a trailer. this size of facility is enough to fill up 25 heavy trucks a day and theres one that powers a ferry.

That's nice.  The math still holds for using that same solar and wind power to charge a battery, and if more people end up using hydrogen, you're still going to have to build more hydrogen plants, and find the electricity to power them.   Rationalize it all you want, they still both run on electricity.  One just uses a more roundabout way to do it.

[peteski]

I have seen this exact discussion on this exact forum in the past. The opinions and comments have not changed since then.

[Aaronw]

9 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

And what makes you think that won't be a problem if you're using that electricity to make hydrogen.  If anything, you're going to need more electricity to crack hydrogen and then use it in a fuel cell or burn it in as IC engine.

 

No idea on the electrical consumption front, I'm just happy to see that unlike many Toyota is exploring other technological options. EV's work great for some uses, not so much for others. EVs also have their own issues, charging and its toll on the grid will need to be addressed. Lithium extraction is and will continue to be a serious problem. Gasoline and diesel have issues but they are well known and there is a long history of addressing them. Currently as a fuel it is too useful to go away anytime soon.

I like options, instead of hoping EV is the solution to all our power issues I'd prefer that we continue to see options explored and then use the most appropriate for each niche. Imagine where we would be if in the 1880s,"they" declared steam power was good enough and pressured those tinkering with internal combustion and electric drive systems to give up and just focus on steam. 

[Smoke Wagon]

I forgot that VW Group bought Navistar. Are Paccar and Oshkosh the only American-owned heavy truck manufacturers these days?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Smoke Wagon

[stavanzer]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:18 AM, lordairgtar said:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/volkswagen-international-scout-ev-pickup-truck-suv/?wc_mid=4035:23032&wc_rid=4035:31300887&_wcsid=7E780861500BE34744A2F56AAF61793993BA001B41AA849E 

Interesting.

No, Useless! EV-SUV?

Not ever gonna happen in anything but handbuilt prototypes. And when those fail, they will never be seen/heard of again.

[Joe Handley]

Don't count on that Alan, Jeep is working on their own Wrangler that is a full EV and the running concept has been at teh Easter Jeep Safari 2 years in a row, first as a mild build, other than the EV swap for '21

https://www.motortrend.com/news/jeeps-magneto-concept-wrangler-ev-photos-details/

 

Then upgraded to the more powerful and capable Magneto 2.0 for this Year's Safari

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39674254/jeep-wrangler-magneto-2-concept/

Then Jeep is working with Electrify America to build Level 2 (240v) charging stations at various trail heads in conjunction withe the release of the Wrangler 4xE and will be usable with the Grand Cherokee 4xE as well.

https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/135

[Goose1957]

I'm not going to get into the whole ev-ice debate. I just want to say...WOW! I may, in the future, be able to buy a new Scout?!?! ? I'm in heaven!

Little disappointed that VW is bringing it out, but what the heck, Jeeps are now Italian. ?

Jeff

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 5/24/2022 at 4:39 PM, stitchdup said:

the hydrogen facilities where i am all use solar and wind power. they are self contained units that dont plug into the grid so can be placed anywhere. most of them are the size of a small shipping container and can easily be mounted on a trailer. this size of facility is enough to fill up 25 heavy trucks a day and theres one that powers a ferry.

Do you have any photos? Perhaps more info to save me some internet mining time? I'm seriously interested in stand-alone units, and I've been out of the loop for years now.

[stitchdup]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Do you have any photos? Perhaps more info to save me some internet mining time? I'm seriously interested in stand-alone units, and I've been out of the loop for years now.

I can easily get some, its a local group thats heavily involved with marine energy that distribute them.

[lordairgtar]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:59 AM, Smoke Wagon said:

I forgot that VW Group bought Navistar. Are Paccar and Oshkosh the only American-owned heavy truck manufacturers these days?

Pretty much, although American, Paccar owns DAF, British Leland Trucks and I think Fodden.

Edited May 27, 2022 by lordairgtar

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 hours ago, stitchdup said:

I can easily get some, its a local group thats heavily involved with marine energy that distribute them.

 

I'd really appreciate any info you've got so I can research it further...even any name or anything else on the units.

[keyser]

@Ace-GarageguyLavo Green Energy Storage System

[BlackSheep214]

Ok... here’s my take on these electric vehicle fads. First, I have zero interest in electric vehicles. I see too many problems with these EV automobiles.

1 - They are too expensive to own. I mean come on, who can afford to spend $50k plus for them?

2 - It takes an average of 4 hours to fully charge them.  What if you have an emergency that you need to go somewhere and your EV has not enough charge to use? You’re screwed.

3 - There’s no way anyone can afford to have home charging stations in their homes. houses are averaging 100 x 150 amps. Imagine what your m9nthly electric bill would be.

4 - Battery replacements will cost you more than what the car is worth. Heck, South Africa are currently having issues dealing with copper thieves and Russia has lithium mines. 

5 - Winter. They’re useless in cold climate. You’re more likely to have hard starts or no starts at all once temps hits below zero. Not everyone has a two car garage in a multi-family household.

 

While I’m not steering this into a political issue but these New Green Plan zealots don’t think logically on the other side of of the spectrum - the negative issues. They are the ones trying to change the way to live and use alternative energy and ban gas powered vehicles. They’re too concerned with pollution and carbon footprint on the ground and air.

Heck... I’d be afraid of flying in an electric aircraft. Imagine an EV aircraft losing battery power over the middle of an ocean?

While I’m all for alternative energy like solar power and wind power, but there are protests in communities across the US against seeing solar fields and windmills constructed in their backyards. Windmills kill numerous bird species and can drive certain species into extinction. Don’t believe me? Google it. I do know there are signs all over my community saying “No to Solar Power Fields”.

i’d rather have solar panels installed on my roof than a solar field nearby.

in a nutshell, don’t ram the EV down our throats because everyone, including those green environmentalist nutty zealotsthinks they’re a great idea. They cost too much and nobody can afford them nor the upkeep. I’d rather have internal combustion engines than an EV.  They’re cheaper, affordable and easier to maintain.

 

[tbill]

Let’s not forget about the high voltage , I see a lot of people getting hurt /killed poking around under the hood……

’hold my beer while I see what these orange cables do….’

[Ace-Garageguy]

15 hours ago, stitchdup said:

I can easily get some, its a local group thats heavily involved with marine energy that distribute them.

Something like this? It's a joint venture by Scottish Power, BOC and ITM Power.

[Ace-Garageguy]

There is a rational way to use all the available technologies for what they do best.

But forcing "green" electrics into every application ain't it.

It's as stupid as believing you can build a house using nothing but a computer. Computers don't make very good hammers.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[keyser]

@Ace-GarageguyLaptops sorta do??

[stitchdup]

10 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Something like this? It's a joint venture by Scottish Power, BOC and ITM Power.

very similar except ours are made by EMEC (european marine energy something) who test a large variety of marine power generating stuff. If you have marine energy machines near where you live they were all tested in orkney

[stitchdup]

Ace, here's some links about the local to me set ups,

https://www.emec.org.uk/facilities/hydrogen/

https://www.emec.org.uk/projects/hydrogen-projects/

I get to see a lot of the marine energy devices and some of them are quite interesting, with a lot of unique ideas. At the moment theres a canadian device being tested that has the possibilities of being one of the most powerful yet created. There is some of it that confuses me though, their building some offshore windfarms but they dont seem to want to fit any of the marine energy devices to the bases. To me it seems like a no brainer, mount marine devices in the bases and then each location can provide more power while saving on space

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, stitchdup said:

Ace, here's some links about the local to me set ups,

https://www.emec.org.uk/facilities/hydrogen/

https://www.emec.org.uk/projects/hydrogen-projects/

Thank you very much sir. Gives me a good starting point for further research.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

I do have to say...one potential upside to an electric offroad vehicle is that, if you have the presence of mind and the resources to carry a portable PV array, you can recharge in the field enough to get you back...eventually. Not as quick as dumping 5 gallons of fuel in the tank from a jerry can, but a potential lifesaver for those who are well prepared and patient enough to wait out the charging cycle(s).

As it stands though, there's no shortage of dimbulbs who get themselves in all kinds of trouble with conventional offroad power, and that'll never change no matter how "green" and "renewable" you go.

Another thing...the instant high torque delivery of electric motors is causing some grief for those doing retrofits to ICE vehicles. Snapping axles, driveshafts, and universal/CV joints isn't uncommon. And judging by the relatively low-mileage problems a lot of today's automatic drivetrains are experiencing, I wouldn't be surprised to see lotsa drivetrain failures in electric off-roading too...at least in early ones before the bugs are worked out.

[Ace-Garageguy]

21 hours ago, BlackSheep214 said:

...Heck... I’d be afraid of flying in an electric aircraft. Imagine an EV aircraft losing battery power over the middle of an ocean?

I agree with most of everything you say, but remember that engine failure wasn't too very uncommon in the days of big piston-engined aircraft. And fairly frequent, expensive maintenance was the norm.

Today's aircraft turbine engines have all but eliminated both those issues, and I think it would be beyond stupid to try to replace that mature, highly reliable technology with electric power for transport aircraft. The tech exists to make carbon-neutral biofuels that burn just fine in turbines.

That said, electric power is making impressive inroads into sport aviation, and it has its place...but not at the cost of grounding the fleet of conventional planes just to be PC.

[stitchdup]

53 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I agree with most of everything you say, but remember that engine failure wasn't too very uncommon in the days of big piston-engined aircraft. And fairly frequent, expensive maintenance was the norm.

Today's aircraft turbine engines have all but eliminated both those issues, and I think it would be beyond stupid to try to replace that mature, highly reliable technology with electric power for transport aircraft. The tech exists to make carbon-neutral biofuels that burn just fine in turbines.

That said, electric power is making impressive inroads into sport aviation, and it has its place...but not at the cost of grounding the fleet of conventional planes just to be PC.

Funnily enough, they are testing retrofitted electric engines in old brittan norman islander planes here too. I'm not sure how far along they are but these planes are the backbone for inter island flights here, and are coming on 70 years old. If they succeed I'd love to put one of the aircooled v8s they currently run in an old vw bus.

http://sustainableskies.org/loganair-pioneer-island-hopping-electric-flight/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Fresson

(sorry for a wikipedia link, just use the quoted sources rather than the article, lol)