For Craftman kits, rather than kit bash for the not-included parts, sell the parts seperately

[drksd4848]

Just a thought... Would it be tough to sell separate small 1/25th scale Mopar engines or GM engine kits that you could add to a craftsman model like the GTO (although putting a Mopar engine in a GTO would be... weird ? But hey, why not?)  This way you wouldn't have to bust up a perfectly good model to add the details, you could buy an engine pack or whatever else.

[stitchdup]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:18 PM, drksd4848 said:

Just a thought... Would it be tough to sell separate small 1/25th scale Mopar engines or GM engine kits that you could add to a craftsman model like the GTO (although putting a Mopar engine in a GTO would be... weird ? But hey, why not?)  This way you wouldn't have to bust up a perfectly good model to add the details, you could buy an engine pack or whatever else.

Expand  

do you mean the parts pack engines from amt and revell? or the many varied options that 3d printing has opened up

[Can-Con]

Because parts packs engines don't sell.  Besides, the kits they recently released without engines will be released with engines and other underhood details soon enough. [Nova wagon anyone?] Just wait for one of those. 

Seems North American car modelers are the only ones that obsess over engines to this degree.

90% of other model kits such as military and aircraft models don't come with engines and the people building those don't seem to be worried about it so much.

 

[Smoke Wagon]

It would need to include more than one engine IMO.

For example, maybe Round2 could do a parts pack for the new Chevy C3500 dually kit that would include a 454 engine, a 6.5L turbo diesel engine, canopy top, gooseneck hitch, cab visor, stirrup steps, etc.

The Craftsman ‘65 GTO parts kit could include a Tri-Power 389, custom 455 big block, mag wheels, drag radials, interior roll bar, skinny front tires, and a drag chute. 

 

[Can-Con]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:45 PM, Smoke Wagon said:

It would need to include more than one engine IMO.

For example, maybe Round2 could do a parts pack for the new Chevy C3500 dually kit that would include a 454 engine, a 6.5L turbo diesel engine, canopy top, gooseneck hitch, cab visor, stirrup steps, etc.

The Craftsman ‘65 GTO parts kit could include a Tri-Power 389, custom 455 big block, mag wheels, drag radials, interior roll bar, skinny front tires, and a drag chute. 

 

Expand  

Nice idea but how much would this cost though? 

I'm betting just as much as the kit itself.

[drksd4848]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:39 PM, Can-Con said:

Because parts packs engines don't sell.

 

Expand  

Yeah, I suppose a parts pack is no good if you don't buy the model in the first place, and of those who buy the model, how many would go through the trouble to spend money on a parts pack?

And with that... I torpedoed my own idea.

Edited May 3, 2023 by drksd4848

[Can-Con]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:50 PM, drksd4848 said:

Yeah, I suppose a parts pack is no good if you don't buy the model in the first place, and of those who buy the model, how many would go through the trouble to spend money on a parts pack. 

And with that... I torpedoed my own idea.

Expand  

In itself, it's not a bad ides, it's just that us, who build these kits are so cheap. 

How often have you seen a great new kit come out and 1/2 the posters on here say they'll wait until it goes on sale or they get a 1/2 price coupon because they don't want to pay the asking price? 

Waiting for the kit to go on sale just tells the company that it wouldn't sell for what they're fairly asking and maybe even that it's a dud.

[GMP440]

There are a couple companies that already offer resin or 3D printed engines.  

[drksd4848]

In 1/25th scale?

[Luc Janssens]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:39 PM, Can-Con said:

Because parts packs engines don't sell.  Besides, the kits they recently released without engines will be released with engines and other underhood details soon enough. [Nova wagon anyone?] Just wait for one of those. 

Seems North American car modelers are the only ones that obsess over engines to this degree.

90% of other model kits such as military and aircraft models don't come with engines and the people building those don't seem to be worried about it so much.

 

Expand  

And packaging and licensing most likely are a big if not biggest cost.

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:57 PM, Can-Con said:

In itself, it's not a bad ides, it's just that us, who build these kits are so cheap. 

How often have you seen a great new kit come out and 1/2 the posters on here say they'll wait until it goes on sale or they get a 1/2 price coupon because they don't want to pay the asking price? 

Waiting for the kit to go on sale just tells the company that it wouldn't sell for what they're fairly asking and maybe even that it's a dud.

Expand  

When you take all the costs in consideration buying another kits works out to being cheaper in the long run. You can either trade or sell the rest.

[Khils]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:57 PM, Can-Con said:

Waiting for the kit to go on sale just tells the company that it wouldn't sell for what they're fairly asking and maybe even that it's a dud.

Expand  

"BINGO"!  

Lack of support of "new" release kits determines a lot of input on future forthcomings!!

[Bills72sj]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:18 PM, drksd4848 said:

Just a thought... Would it be tough to sell separate small 1/25th scale Mopar engines or GM engine kits that you could add to a craftsman model like the GTO (although putting a Mopar engine in a GTO would be... weird ? But hey, why not?)  This way you wouldn't have to bust up a perfectly good model to add the details, you could buy an engine pack or whatever else.

Expand  

I am with you. I hate parts bashing kits that make even one of them incomplete (with the exception of the prolific Pro Street kits). However I DO like kitbashing with swapping of parts. Fortunately, over the years I have accumulated enough engine bits to have a couple spares. Building slot car bodies for others, helps the engine stash as well.

[Stef]

For most of us, we pretty much ARE parts packs. Between our new kits, used kits, builtups, gluebombs, rebuilders, abandoned builds, trades, freebies, cheapo flea market finds, incomplete kits, aftermarket, and whatever else exists in our stashes, we've got lots of stuff on hand to build pretty much whatever we want. I have a Revellogram 56 Nomad I want to do as a gasser/street freak, and the base 265 isn't gonna cut it for me. I've got at least 3 sources for a big block Chevy in-house, and if worse comes to worse, I'll drop cash on something just for parts. The possibilities are near endless.

[Justin Porter]

  On 5/3/2023 at 7:49 PM, Can-Con said:

Nice idea but how much would this cost though? 

I'm betting just as much as the kit itself.

Expand  

And if there is indeed an as yet unseen market for builders of American classic cars who are willing to pay $30+ for a kit with an ostensibly accurate body and interior, and then an additional $30+ for a full engine plus engine bay and chassis improvements, then why isn't there a market then for $40-$50 American classic car kits on the same detail and engineering level as Ebbro's Citroen DS or Tamiya's Mercedes 300SL?

Occam's Razor is a heck of a thing...

[Carmak]

I will take an accurately proportioned curbside (Craftsman) kit any day over a full detail kit with wonky body proportion issues!

Round2 is spending their design and tooling dollars in the best way possible. I suspect most of us have engine boxes brimming with options if needed.

Keep in mind that these are primarily clone kits therefore the included engine would most likely be a 60's vintage rendition and not a highly detailed engine typically found in a modern kit.

Carmak

[Luc Janssens]

  On 5/4/2023 at 6:56 PM, Carmak said:

I will take an accurately proportioned curbside (Craftsman) kit any day over a full detail kit with wonky body proportion issues!

Round2 is spending their design and tooling dollars in the best way possible. I suspect most of us have engine boxes brimming with options if needed.

Keep in mind that these are primarily clone kits therefore the included engine would most likely be a 60's vintage rendition and not a highly detailed engine typically found in a modern kit.

Carmak

Expand  

I've said it a few times before, cloning doesn't limit itself to vintage model kits, '90s Mueller-Montgomery-Carlock kits (*) or parts thereof can be cloned too, that way the problem of the limitations of existing tooling and combining it goes away.  IMHO the future look bright. Sit back and enjoy the ride@

 

* see the OBS Chevy pickups ?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Luc Janssens

[Motor City]

  On 5/4/2023 at 2:29 PM, Justin Porter said:

And if there is indeed an as yet unseen market for builders of American classic cars who are willing to pay $30+ for a kit with an ostensibly accurate body and interior, and then an additional $30+ for a full engine plus engine bay and chassis improvements, then why isn't there a market then for $40-$50 American classic car kits on the same detail and engineering level as Ebbro's Citroen DS or Tamiya's Mercedes 300SL?

Occam's Razor is a heck of a thing...

Expand  

Because, as you already know, most people here are too cheap to pay $40 dollars or more for any kit.

 

 

[Tabbysdaddy]

Being cheap also comes at a price. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 5/4/2023 at 2:29 PM, Justin Porter said:

And if there is indeed an as yet unseen market for builders of American classic cars who are willing to pay $30+ for a kit with an ostensibly accurate body and interior, and then an additional $30+ for a full engine plus engine bay and chassis improvements, then why isn't there a market then for $40-$50 American classic car kits on the same detail and engineering level as Ebbro's Citroen DS or Tamiya's Mercedes 300SL?

Occam's Razor is a heck of a thing...

Expand  

I think that is a pretty small group in the United States. If you look at a lot of the builds here you don't see that many people buying 2 kits to create a more detailed one.  Can't speak on Ebbro but Tamiyas market is different than Round2.

Edited May 4, 2023 by bobthehobbyguy
Added thought

[Justin Porter]

  On 5/4/2023 at 11:06 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

I think that is a pretty small group in the United States. If you look at a lot of the builds here you don't see that many people buying 2 kits to create a more detailed one.  Can't speak on Ebbro but Tamiyas market is different than Round2.

Expand  

That's precisely my point. If the market actually existed for classic American car kits of that quality in that price range, logically they would exist. However, the builders of American classic cars seem content to take what they're given with a smile so long as they can buy it on sale.

[Oldriginal86]

After the purchase of a kit, then a 3D printed much more detailed engine, photo etched detail kit, aftermarket wheels and tire and maybe a decal sheet to replicate the race car you saw run once at the local track, I wouldn't call us cheap. We just want an accurate representation of the subject as well as some new, more up to date models. How many 29-32 ford roadster and coupes do we need? I grew up in the hot rod era but I haven’t built one in years.

[Richard Bartrop]

Kits here are creeping into the $50 range for those curbsides.  Nobody likes spending money they don't have to, but if it's an accurate detailed kit of a subject I really want, then I'll probably bite the bullet.

There's also the idea that what you are really buying is building time, so a pricier kit that takes longer to put together is actually a better investment than several cheaper kits that you can put together in an evening.   This has always been the rationalization for the Pocher kits, anyhow.

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 5/5/2023 at 12:08 AM, Justin Porter said:

That's precisely my point. If the market actually existed for classic American car kits of that quality in that price range, logically they would exist. However, the builders of American classic cars seem content to take what they're given with a smile so long as they can buy it on sale.

Expand  

This is the typical case for most consumers. Decisions are based on cost only. A lot of people buy low quality tools because of the price and then complain about how poorly they work.

The model companies can only provide what the consumer is willing to buy or they won't be in business long.

[niteowl7710]

  On 5/4/2023 at 8:24 PM, Luc Janssens said:

I've said it a few times before, cloning doesn't limit itself to vintage model kits, '90s Mueller-Montgomery-Carlock kits (*) or parts thereof can be cloned too, that way the problem of the limitations of existing tooling and combining it goes away.  IMHO the future look bright. Sit back and enjoy the ride@

 

* see the OBS Chevy pickups ?

Expand  

Not the most accurate example since the OBS kits are being cloned off the promos and those were done 3rd Party for AMT back then and they didn't have access to the tooling to just re-release them otherwise. There's also the inherent problems even with cloning a 90s era tool parts into a 60/70s era long gone body of making everything play nice and fit together. See Full Bumper 70.5 Camaro, See retooling of the stock front end of the AMC Gremlin. Etc.