StevenGuthmiller Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I've been trying to make a decision for the engine that I'm going to put in my '64 Pontiac Lemans convertible project, and I would like to pick all of your brains on the matter. The Lemans was available in '64 with either a 215 6 cylinder, a 326 4-bbl V-8, or a 326 2-bbl V-8. All were available with a 4 speed manual transmission, which is what I'm going to go with. My question is that in any circumstance, I'm going to have to do some parts swapping and/or modifications, and I wanted to do something a little different, so my first thought was to work towards a 326 2-bbl. That of course is going to require finding a suitable 2-bbl intake, or modifying something to represent one. The other option is a 6 cylinder, but as far as I'm aware, there are no Pontiac 6 cylinders available, except for the overhead cam version contained in the MPC '69 Firbird kit which was apparently not available until 1966. So, the question is, should I go for an accurate 2-bbl V-8, or an inaccurate 6 cylinder? The 6 Cylinder in the '69 kit is pretty cool and would look pretty boss in the Lemans. The conundrum being that I do want to keep this in the factory stock realm. What do you guys think? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarheelRick Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 If you want to go 2 bbl I would think it should be fairly simple to modify a 3X2 manifold to work in that situation. Just a bit of filler and some sanding should do the trick. Or you could possibly pull an I-6 out of one of the Chevy II or mid 60"s Chevy trucks and modify it to work. A man with your talent and building expertise shouldn't have much trouble with either option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecan Dan Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 With your skills the 2bbl-V8 is do-able. And you're always extremely accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodent Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I build my models as if I had originally ordered the car to my specs, so I would do the 326 4-barrel in this case. That said, the 215 Pontiac looks a lot like the Chevy 230 painted blue and seems to be based on it. If you want that, do the research and adapt an AMT Nova wagon engine. A friend had a 64 'pest 2 door post with the 215 for a while before the 2008-2009 crash forced him to sell it. It accelerated like fog and got dismal fuel economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills72sj Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 The intake port layout is similar to a small block Chevy. The differences that I know of are Pontiac distributors are in back and insert directly into the block. Chevys are in the back but insert through the intake. Removal of the Chevy distributor hole would be easy. The thermostat housings are in similar locations in the front. Pontiacs have a cast in connection to the timing chain cover but this is very minimal in scale. You may need to fabricate an oil fill tube depending on what was used in '64. This brings us back to... are there any 2BBL SBC intake manifolds out there? Alternately, you could just whittle the front an rear of a 4BBL cab pad down to 2BBL size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stavanzer Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I'd Use the OHC-6 Myself, factory stock or not. It would look Killer, and you would have the only one! But, that is just me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exotics_Builder Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 As much as the OHC six is great, you're then in Day 2 mode. I'd aim for the 326 2BBL as first option, 4BBL as second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulf Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Thanks for asking the question, as I admire your projects, it's really nice to have the chance to vote. First I read 215 carelessly and thought Buick 215, my dream engine in a model car but then I read again and yes, a inline 6 is so incredibly beautiful so 215 is my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Since the 2 bbl carburetor on a basic 326 cu in Pontiac engine would be hidden by the stock air cleaner there wouldn't be any need to change the intake manifold or remove the 4 bbl carburetor. The exterior dimensions of the Pontiac V8 are pretty much the same it wouldn't matter so much which kit you robed the engine from, just look for the best-looking engine you can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack L Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 do the 6cyl it uses the chevy bellhousing all I found different was the block had Pontiac cast on the side it had a different stroke but thats internal . Do some looking it would be different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 7 hours ago, espo said: Since the 2 bbl carburetor on a basic 326 cu in Pontiac engine would be hidden by the stock air cleaner there wouldn't be any need to change the intake manifold or remove the 4 bbl carburetor. The exterior dimensions of the Pontiac V8 are pretty much the same it wouldn't matter so much which kit you robed the engine from, just look for the best-looking engine you can find. That would be the "normal" circumstance, but I haven't built an engine without a removable air cleaner, (except for the tri-power 389 in my '64 Grand Prix) in several years and probably my last 5 or 6 builds. The engine I'll be using is the same Revell '66 GTO engine that I used in my '64 Bonneville project, but as has become my custom, the air cleaner will be removable, making whatever intake configuration I choose, visible. To be honest, I'm beginning to get excited about figuring out a presentable 2 bbl intake! I think it'll be a lot of fun! Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I wonder if the Tri-Power intake, with the two outer carb mounting pads removed, might end up looking like a two-barrel unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 putting a 6 cyl in it would be more unique than installing a V8.. making it easily more eye catching and will draw even a casual viewer in to look at the extra work you add to the build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 (edited) found this: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/engines/forgotten-engines-1964-1965-pontiac-215-six-built-by-pontiac-or-chevrolet/ and this: Edited March 23 by blunc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espo Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 19 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said: That would be the "normal" circumstance, but I haven't built an engine without a removable air cleaner, (except for the tri-power 389 in my '64 Grand Prix) in several years and probably my last 5 or 6 builds. The engine I'll be using is the same Revell '66 GTO engine that I used in my '64 Bonneville project, but as has become my custom, the air cleaner will be removable, making whatever intake configuration I choose, visible. To be honest, I'm beginning to get excited about figuring out a presentable 2 bbl intake! I think it'll be a lot of fun! Steve Maybe use a 4 bbl manifold and reshape the carburetor mounting pad to look like a 2 bbl manifold. The two-barrel carb could come from a Tri-Power setup that uses Carter carbs. I think that would be the most common carb that GM used in that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 3 minutes ago, espo said: Maybe use a 4 bbl manifold and reshape the carburetor mounting pad to look like a 2 bbl manifold. The two-barrel carb could come from a Tri-Power setup that uses Carter carbs. I think that would be the most common carb that GM used in that era. That's the route that I've decided to take. Thanks David! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 (edited) I appreciate all of the input guys, but I Think I've decided that in order to keep it as close as possible to factory stock, I believe that I'm going to go with the 326 2 bbl. I've already been offered a 4 bbl intake from the Revell '68 Firebird kit by Gerry Paquette, (Exotics_Builder) and I'm confident it will make a good platform to convert into a 2 bbl intake. I'm excited about the prospect and have already began "gussying up" a 2bbl carb from the '66 GTO tri-power set up. I'm already having a blast with it! Started adding some detail to the carb, and just dropped it in Super Clean a few minutes ago to continue to remove the chrome. I'll post a few shots of the carb in my "1964 Pontiac Lemans Convertible" build thread when it's a little further along to see what you all think. Steve Edited March 23 by StevenGuthmiller 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Thorne Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I assume the 4 barrel version would be an afb carb. If so, aftermarket resin carbs are available that are more realistic than most of the “blob” carbs included in most kits. Something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 2 hours ago, R. Thorne said: I assume the 4 barrel version would be an afb carb. If so, aftermarket resin carbs are available that are more realistic than most of the “blob” carbs included in most kits. Something like this. Yes, I used one of Fireball Modelwork's carbs on my '64 Bonneville. However, I'm not aware of any aftermarket Carter 2 bbl's being offered, so I'm on my way to making one. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodent Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I think you actually need a Rochester 2GC, not a Carter. https://nationalcarburetors.com/Pontiac-1961-1967-326-389-400-Rochester-2GC_p_868.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 I agree with Rodent, GM "usually" used Rochester carbs. Carter carbs were more common on MOPARs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted March 24 Author Share Posted March 24 2 hours ago, Rodent said: I think you actually need a Rochester 2GC, not a Carter. https://nationalcarburetors.com/Pontiac-1961-1967-326-389-400-Rochester-2GC_p_868.html 7 minutes ago, blunc said: I agree with Rodent, GM "usually" used Rochester carbs. Carter carbs were more common on MOPARs Sorry, You're both correct. That's what I'm shooting for. Pay no mind to the carb still attached to the back. I just left that for the time being for something to grab onto while I work on it. Still have some of the linkage to do, but I think it will be at least a little bit of an improvement from the kit part. Steve 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I'm guessing this is what you're shooting for... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Thorne Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Gotta ask. Is that a kit carb? If so, what kit? Didn’t find any aftermarket 2 barrel carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 27 minutes ago, R. Thorne said: Gotta ask. Is that a kit carb? If so, what kit? Didn’t find any aftermarket 2 barrel carbs. It started as the center carb from the Revell ‘66 GTO’s tri-power set up. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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