House of Kolors Wrinkles

[jjsipes]

Never tried this before, have had these House of Kolors bottles for close 20 years. Got them back at Walmart years ago and thought this would be a good candidate to try them out. Started with ScaleFinishes White Superprimer since I believed the HOK paints were alittle hotter. Then sprayed Automotive White, taped and sprayed Automotive Silver for a base. Mixed up the HOK Tangerine and airbrushed over the Silver. Looked great. Left dry for 4 days and sprayed Tamiya Clear over figuring it would be ok. Guess it wasn't ok. Does anyone have any experience with the line of HOK paints?

[Mike 1017]

I have used 10 year old HOK. I never encountered anything like this. The clear was the last step so it maybe the culprit. The paint on the trunk is way too thick. And could be the reason the clear reacted badly. Everything else looks OK. It will be interesting to see what others think.

Good luck

Mike

[Zoom Zoom]

Those were not real HOK paints and back in the day there was a lot of this nonsense going on with these products. I'd bought a few, saw other's results, threw it away. Sorry you had to learn about this the hard way. 

[Mike 1017]

Yes, the Kustom Kolors line of House of Kolor paints is acrylic enamel. Some people claim that they aren't *real* HOK paints and that Valspar just tacked the name on for *brand recognition* but they are real, just not the same formulation as their automotive paints.

More non-sense Thanks Google 

 

Edited September 3, 2024 by Mike 1017
wrong word

[Ace-Garageguy]

This is the reason we constantly harp on TEST FIRST ON THE SAME PLASTIC YOUR MODEL IS MADE FROM, BEFORE YOU PAINT THE MODEL, with any product or combination of products you're not intimately familiar with.

NEVER ASSUME PRODUCTS FROM DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS OR EVEN DIFFERENT PRODUCT LINES FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER ARE COMPATIBLE.

TEST FIRST.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Mike 1017 said:

Yes, the Kustom Kolors line of House of Kolor paints is acrylic enamel.

 

And if true, that right there answers the OP's question.

You can NOT topcoat acrylic enamel with lacquer (which is what the Tamiya clear must be in this case) without risking exactly what happened to the OP.

EDIT:  Bob Downie, aka Zoom Zoom, is one of the most accomplished and knowledgeable car modelers on the planet. I've seen a lot of his work up-close-and-personal, it's absolutely top quality, he's been published in the model mags frequently, and I'd tend to take his word on just about anything paint-related as gospel.

Edited September 3, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Exotics_Builder]

38 minutes ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Those were not real HOK paints and back in the day there was a lot of this nonsense going on with these products. I'd bought a few, saw other's results, threw it away. Sorry you had to learn about this the hard way. 

 

13 minutes ago, Mike 1017 said:

Yes, the Kustom Kolors line of House of Kolor paints is acrylic enamel. Some people claim that they aren't *real* HOK paints and that Valspar just tacked the name on for *brand recognition* but they are real, just not the same formulation as their automotive paints.

More non-sense Thanks Google 

 

As Bob said these paints were problematic from the get-go and the vendors did not last long.  If you checked the labeling on the bottle it said from the Makers of House of Kolor.  That is because these were Valspar paints and enamel.  I got a few bottles free from the vendors at an IHobby show where they had a booth.  I never had the chance to try them before the problems started getting posted on forums.  I dumped them.  At least I had no money invested in them.  The vendor shut down after two-three years.

[NOBLNG]

I have found the aerosol Tamiya clears to be pretty hot too.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Even with testing mixing paint brands always has the potential for issues. Companies produce paint systems. Mixing brands means that you have no niceties like recommended recoat times. 

You used three different brands of paint on your project which is always a recipe for disaster. 

[stitchdup]

i used tamiya under hok but i put a barrier of automotive clear between them. i also let each layer sit for a week so it was an 8 week process but its worth it for hok

[Zoom Zoom]

8 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

Yes, the Kustom Kolors line of House of Kolor paints is acrylic enamel. Some people claim that they aren't *real* HOK paints and that Valspar just tacked the name on for *brand recognition* but they are real, just not the same formulation as their automotive paints.

More non-sense Thanks Google 

 

So Mr. Google Expert, what have you done today to help other modelers? Forums everywhere were awash with horror stories like the OP's back when these paints were suddenly available at every Walmart. Most who used it reported problems, some from my own club, we all saw the results. It didn't act like any "normal" hobby paint, regardless of whether it was enamel or not. It probably ruined more builder's paint jobs than helped them get a better finish. I think one of my fellow club members actually got a decent paint job out of it. Instead of being a superior product as the brand name would allude to, it was a cheap paint sold at Walmart and even cheaper when on closeout. And as the OP has shown, 20 years later, this stuff helped ruin his project. A ton of this stuff was given away for free at our various club meetings.

I've been preaching a lot lately about how awesome Tamiya's line of LP paints are for airbrushing. It mixes well, it sprays well, it dries fast, it polishes beautifully, and the jars are relatively inexpensive. They have a transparent orange that would have worked amazingly well on the OP's model. They have a nice variety of metallic finishes that can be used as a base for a candy color.  They also mix well w/some of the aftermarket automotive colors from Splash and Gravity from my own experience. I'm surprised how many builders skip testing paints and colors before diving straight into painting a body. Candy colors require some practice. 

[Skip]

Bob is correct, the HOK Acrylic Enamels should only be covered with (preferably) HOK Acrylic Enamel Clear or acrylic enamel compatible clear.

 Along with using a Lacquer based clear over an enamel, you may also be encountering a reaction between the primers as well, especially if they were not allowed to off gas completely.  It is not a good idea to mix and match different manufacturers paints, they have already spent a ton of time and money on product Engineering, R & D, they know their system works. Automotive Primer is about the only thing that can be mixed and matched, even then it’s problematic as some manufacturers color coats are hotter than others

Doing sign work and automotive graphic work, I’ve used those same Wal Mart HOK acrylic enamels I have covered them successfully with One Shot Enamel Clear, both flat and gloss, I always use a few drops of One Shot hardener both to speed things up and so I don’t encounter any reaction between the two different formulas. I also test my paint method, over the same substrate that will go on the finished (sign) work, so I am aware of what will or will not work before clearing a piece.

[OldNYJim]

2 hours ago, Skip said:

One Shot Enamel Clear

I never realized One Shot MADE a clear - huh!  I’ve been looking for a good replacement for the old Testor’s enamel clear…I’ll have to give this a shot!  Pardon the pun…

[Skip]

https://mcwfinishes.com/shop/ols/products/1017-clear-enamel

https://mcwfinishes.com/shop/ols/products/1003-enamel-hardener

If it were me, I think the MCW Finishes and their Hardener would probably work better for a model car as should any enamel that can be catalyzed as you want the quicker flash and setting time the hardener is going to give the enamel. If you’re going to polish, the hardener going to help out there too, or at least allow you to polish sooner. MCW will give you a straight answer whether his clear will work over the HOK paint, but it’s going to be up to you to test it out on a spoon or spare body to see if it works in practice.  If that doesn’t work, do as Bob suggest, toss the stuff and write it off as a real bad experience!

Another thought on the Walmart HOK paints, from what I understand when Walmart specs out any product, they tell the manufacturer what they want or they aren’t purchasing the product. So, it’s quite possible that’s what happened with the Walmart acrylic enamel HOK paint sets being wonky! I know that they were only on the shelf a short time and never got restocked.  That part is all pretty much speculation, so it may be close or miles off!

[Mike 1017]

14 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

So Mr. Google Expert, what have you done today to help other modelers? Forums everywhere were awash with horror stories like the OP's back when these paints were suddenly available at every Walmart. Most who used it reported problems, some from my own club, we all saw the results. It didn't act like any "normal" hobby paint, regardless of whether it was enamel or not. It probably ruined more builder's paint jobs than helped them get a better finish. I think one of my fellow club members actually got a decent paint job out of it. Instead of being a superior product as the brand name would allude to, it was a cheap paint sold at Walmart and even cheaper when on closeout. And as the OP has shown, 20 years later, this stuff helped ruin his project. A ton of this stuff was given away for free at our various club meetings.

I've been preaching a lot lately about how awesome Tamiya's line of LP paints are for airbrushing. It mixes well, it sprays well, it dries fast, it polishes beautifully, and the jars are relatively inexpensive. They have a transparent orange that would have worked amazingly well on the OP's model. They have a nice variety of metallic finishes that can be used as a base for a candy color.  They also mix well w/some of the aftermarket automotive colors from Splash and Gravity from my own experience. I'm surprised how many builders skip testing paints and colors before diving straight into painting a body. Candy colors require some practice. 

It was just information. In the future refer to me as Mike. No need for your sarcastic remark

[Dave G.]

The One Shot sounds interesting. But honestly in over 60 years of building models, many of those years using enamel, I can off the top of head count on one hand how many times I fully clear coated a model. And most of those yellowed. Enamel comes out so nice without clear, and I build mostly really old classic cars, so not much need for clear. And my experience with clear enamel, is that yellowing.

These days, I may or may not use enamel depending on mood. But I have to agree with the poster who suggests the LP lacquers. Awesome paints, right there.

[Zoom Zoom]

10 hours ago, Mike 1017 said:

It was just information. In the future refer to me as Mike. No need for your sarcastic remark

Mike, as long as you understand your last line in your reply "More non-sense Thanks Google" was sarcastic and not needed to make your point about an inferior and outdated (and now defunct) paint line that was a labeling bait-and-switch vs. an actual quality product. I sadly have seen too many examples of builders burned by this stuff, and IIRC there was nothing on the jars to inform what type of paint it was, nor any instructions how to use it. This is what happens when marketing makes the rules vs. product engineers who understand the end users. The HOK paints I got from LMG and Black Gold back in the day were awesome when thinned with Mr. Hobby lacquer thinners, from metallics to candy colors. I still have a good bit of it. Anyone who thought the Walmart stuff was like LMG or Black Gold or ordering direct from HOK or airbrush suppliers and having actually sprayed it were in for a rude surprise, as seen above.

[Skip]

5 hours ago, Dave G. said:

The One Shot sounds interesting. But honestly in over 60 years of building models, many of those years using enamel, I can off the top of head count on one hand how many times I fully clear coated a model. And most of those yellowed. Enamel comes out so nice without clear, and I build mostly really old classic cars, so not much need for clear. And my experience with clear enamel, is that yellowing.

These days, I may or may not use enamel depending on mood. But I have to agree with the poster who suggests the LP lacquers. Awesome paints, right there.

Yeah Dave, I get it. I wasn’t so much promoting One Shot as much as saying that I have used it over the Walmart HOK paints without a glitch. If I were to promote an enamel clear it would be the MCW Clear and hardener I think someone else thought One Shot would be the answer to all their ills. Likely forgetting that enamel paints and clears can sag well after the airbrush is cleaned and put away. I’ve had a few “how did that get there” runs with enamel myself!

[Mike 1017]

13 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Mike, as long as you understand your last line in your reply "More non-sense Thanks Google" was sarcastic and not needed to make your point about an inferior and outdated (and now defunct) paint line that was a labeling bait-and-switch vs. an actual quality product. I sadly have seen too many examples of builders burned by this stuff, and IIRC there was nothing on the jars to inform what type of paint it was, nor any instructions how to use it. This is what happens when marketing makes the rules vs. product engineers who understand the end users. The HOK paints I got from LMG and Black Gold back in the day were awesome when thinned with Mr. Hobby lacquer thinners, from metallics to candy colors. I still have a good bit of it. Anyone who thought the Walmart stuff was like LMG or Black Gold or ordering direct from HOK or airbrush suppliers and having actually sprayed it were in for a rude surprise, as seen above.

 

13 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Mike, as long as you understand your last line in your reply "More non-sense Thanks Google" was sarcastic and not needed to make your point about an inferior and outdated (and now defunct) paint line that was a labeling bait-and-switch vs. an actual quality product. I sadly have seen too many examples of builders burned by this stuff, and IIRC there was nothing on the jars to inform what type of paint it was, nor any instructions how to use it. This is what happens when marketing makes the rules vs. product engineers who understand the end users. The HOK paints I got from LMG and Black Gold back in the day were awesome when thinned with Mr. Hobby lacquer thinners, from metallics to candy colors. I still have a good bit of it. Anyone who thought the Walmart stuff was like LMG or Black Gold or ordering direct from HOK or airbrush suppliers and having actually sprayed it were in for a rude surprise, as seen above.

Those were not real HOK paints and back in the day there was a lot of this

13 hours ago, Zoom Zoom said:

Mike, as long as you understand your last line in your reply "More non-sense Thanks Google" was sarcastic and not needed to make your point about an inferior and outdated (and now defunct) paint line that was a labeling bait-and-switch vs. an actual quality product. I sadly have seen too many examples of builders burned by this stuff, and IIRC there was nothing on the jars to inform what type of paint it was, nor any instructions how to use it. This is what happens when marketing makes the rules vs. product engineers who understand the end users. The HOK paints I got from LMG and Black Gold back in the day were awesome when thinned with Mr. Hobby lacquer thinners, from metallics to candy colors. I still have a good bit of it. Anyone who thought the Walmart stuff was like LMG or Black Gold or ordering direct from HOK or airbrush suppliers and having actually sprayed it were in for a rude surprise, as seen above.

going on with these products. I'd bought a few, saw other's results, threw it away. Sorry you had to learn about this the hard way. 

Those were not real HOK paints and back in the day there was a lot of this !!!!nonsense!!! going on with these products. I'd bought a few, saw other's results, threw it away. Sorry you had to learn about this the hard way. 

[NOBLNG]

Nothing turns into a soap opera like a discussion about paint.?

[Mike 1017]

17 hours ago, stavanzer said:

Never Heard of them

Never will eat their product.

 

6 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

Nothing turns into a soap opera like a discussion about paint.?

Amen 

[jjsipes]

Thanks everyone. I don't recall seeing anything about these paints before. I just thought I would try them since I had them in my stash.  Was told by the Golden Commandos to make sure I use a Candy Tangerine on their cars as that was the color they used. Didn't know it was going to turn into a soap opera. Moving on now. Will try and come up with something else.

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, jjsipes said:

...Will try and come up with something else.

It may have been mentioned before, but Tamiya has several nice silver lacquers for a base, and transparent orange, red, and yellow lacquers that should get you to "tangerine" with some experimentation.

[jjsipes]

3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

It may have been mentioned before, but Tamiya has several nice silver lacquers for a base, and transparent orange, red, and yellow lacquers that should get you to "tangerine" with some experimentation.

I thought as well so, I grabbed my Gold, Clear Orange and a spoon and tried that. That didn't work. I'll have to get some Silver to try.

[peteski]

I have feeling that if you took some Tamiya clear red and mixed it with clear orange, you could get a color which is close to your original failed paint.  To me it looks like it needs to be more red. Silver base coat will make the orange paler than a gold base coat.