Tamiya spray cans banned in Canada!!!

[Bugatti Fan]

Richard, it every country in the EU had insisted on multi languages on the tin when the UK was in it, we would be having to buy Humbrol from by the litre!   As one poster said about cleaning out airbrushes on masse in Ottawa, Canada is so vast with so much sky for fumes to dissipate it would go unnoticed!

Joking apart, some of these rules and regulations are getting a bit 'nanny statish' where we cannot be trusted to use our common sense any more. And all probably due to a brainless minority who take a delight in in stuffing chemicals into their bodies who of course have to be protected by nameless jobsworths in various authorities world wide.

Edited September 26, 2024 by Bugatti Fan

[stitchdup]

12 minutes ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Richard, it every country in the EU had insisted on multi languages on the tin when the UK was in it, we would be having to buy Humbrol from by the litre!   As one poster said about cleaning out airbrushes on masse in Ottawa, Canada is so vast with so much sky for fumes to dissipate it would go unnoticed!

 

if you peel back the blue label end, they still do have multi languages. its too small to read without a quantum microscope but it is all there still.

[Bullybeef]

I got a return email from the only hobby shop close to me and they informed me that they will not be selling any of their small inventory of Tamiya paint ☹️. So that being said I’m kinda hooped for now, I have maybe 2/3rds of a can of red oxide primer and an almost full can of the fine grey primer. Those were about the absolute best imo and one of the biggest reasons for using Tamiya paints to begin with. I’m still a bit above amateur level in the hobby, I don’t have an airbrush, nor some of the other fancy items like a paintbooth or a dehydrator. So this will be a kick in the pants ( hopefully short term) for people entering the hobby in Canada! I guess once my supply runs out I’ll be limited on any further finish work. I’ll have a bench of white mockups lol. 
 

[Bill Eh?]

Bil, check and see if your local hobby shop or source carries the Mr Hobby line of primers and paints. The Mr Hobby products are really good, especially in the aerosol category.

[iamsuperdan]

Okay, so once Tamiya applies for, and receives the permits for the propellants in the cans. and then labels the cans, then we'll be all good.

Having said that, I've actually switched away from Tamiya for a few things. Did this quite some time ago.

For primer, I use Duplicolor from Canadian Tire. It's available in white, light grey, dark grey, and red oxide. It's a big can, equivalent to probably 4 cans of Tamiya, but cost is equivalent to two cans of Tamiya.

It works great, dries fast, can be sanded.

And after testing, it's safe for 3d printing resin. Well, at least it works with the Elegoo resin. Have sprayed a few things, and after several months, no issues.

I've used a lot of the Duplicolor paint too, with zero adverse affects. 

 

I'll still go back to Tamiya for paint and clear once it's available again.

Or maybe this is a good excuse to switch to airbrush.

[Biggu]

Personally I am not really affected by this , and I have an opinion on this sort of thing, to which I’m gonna have to keep to myself …. But , I can’t help but shake my head when an authority ‘bans’ something because it is potentially ‘harmful’ or ‘dangerous’ and if an importer or vendor gets a ‘permit’ it suddenly becomes ok to sell and purchase with no other changes to the offending product……….how does a ‘permit’ change the product being harmful or dangerous? ?? Seems like a possible money grab ….. I operated heavy equipment and was a low bed driver as well. We could get a ticket for being ‘over weight’ , ‘over width’ or ‘over height’ BUT if we paid for a permit, all was ok…… we were still over weight, over height and over width, the ‘permit’ didn’t change any of that ????I have been getting those permits for well over 30 years…….. I guess it’s the power of the ‘permit’

[Bullybeef]

2 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Okay, so once Tamiya applies for, and receives the permits for the propellants in the cans. and then labels the cans, then we'll be all good.

Having said that, I've actually switched away from Tamiya for a few things. Did this quite some time ago.

For primer, I use Duplicolor from Canadian Tire. It's available in white, light grey, dark grey, and red oxide. It's a big can, equivalent to probably 4 cans of Tamiya, but cost is equivalent to two cans of Tamiya.

It works great, dries fast, can be sanded.

And after testing, it's safe for 3d printing resin. Well, at least it works with the Elegoo resin. Have sprayed a few things, and after several months, no issues.

I've used a lot of the Duplicolor paint too, with zero adverse affects. 

 

I'll still go back to Tamiya for paint and clear once it's available again.

Or maybe this is a good excuse to switch to airbrush.

Hey Dan, can you send a pic of the can, that way I can make sure I can get the right one, is it with the automotive paints or in the General paint section?

[ColonelKrypton]

2 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Okay, so once Tamiya applies for, and receives the permits for the propellants in the cans.

Very unlikely anything to do with the propellants.  Tamiya's safety data sheets ( SDS ) show the use of Dimethyl ether  CAS No. 115-10-6 as the propellant.   Mr Hobby / Mr Color / Mr Surfacer aerosol paints show this as their propellant as well as do the limited selection of other brands of aerosol paints for which I have a SDS.

After much digging and reading through many web documents of the Canada Gazette and Environment Canada concerning toxic chemical, I have managed to eliminate most of the chemicals found in the Tamiya aerosol paints except for one.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/canadian-environmental-protection-act-registry/substances-list/toxic/schedule-1.html

2-Butoxyethanol  CAS no. 111-76-2

There is no Canadian manufacture of this chemical and there are limits on how much can be in imported products based on their intended use.

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2023/eccc/En14-510-2023-eng.pdf

Also of note, 2-Butoxyethanol  CAS no. 111-76-2 is listed as an ingredient in Tamiya Lacquer Thinner product no. 87077 but not Tamiya Lacquer Thinner Retarder type product no. 87194, Mr Color thinner but not Mr Color Levelling Thinner, and much of the Mr Hobby Aqueous line of products.

If 2-Butoxyethanol  CAS no. 111-76-2 is in fact what has put the Tamiya aerosols on the naughty list - which has not yet been definitively acknowledged - those other products containing this chemical may also come under scrutiny before too long. The wheels of bureaucracy often turn slowly but will eventually get to where it is headed.  

This is my best guess at the moment and is based on the SDS that I have in hand which may or may not be the most recent or current versions.

More poking, digging, and reading to do. Those regulatory documents are not easy reads and my head is spinning so it is time to take a break.

 

cheers, Graham

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulfuls]

3 hours ago, ColonelKrypton said:

If 2-Butoxyethanol  CAS no. 111-76-2 is in fact what has put the Tamiya aerosols on the naughty list - which has not yet been definitively acknowledged - those other products containing this chemical may also come under scrutiny before too long. The wheels of bureaucracy often turn slowly but will eventually get to where it is headed.  

Thanks very much for your work on this! Assuming that 2-Butoxyethanol ("2BE") is the culprit, there were two things that jumped out at me from the Ministry of Environment fact sheet: first that the restriction on 2BE appears to have been in place since 2007 -- so not a new issue by any means. Second, more importantly, the Minister has the power to grant an exemption permitting the import of a product which contains more 2BE than what is allowed under the regulation. 

So, with luck, there appear to multiple possible pathways forward (reformulation by Tamiya if necessary, or an exemption order by the Minister).  It's even possible, I suppose, that if Tamiya spray cans used to have higher concentrations of 2BE than they do now, and an out-of-date MDS describing the old formulation was submitted by the importer, that the current Tamiya spray cans are actually compliant, and it's just documentation issue that needs to be resolved.  Fingers crossed.

Edited September 26, 2024 by Ulfuls
typo in first line: "is" was split in two by "("2BE")"

[Richard Bartrop]

14 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Richard, it every country in the EU had insisted on multi languages on the tin when the UK was in it, we would be having to buy Humbrol from by the litre!   As one poster said about cleaning out airbrushes on masse in Ottawa, Canada is so vast with so much sky for fumes to dissipate it would go unnoticed!

Joking apart, some of these rules and regulations are getting a bit 'nanny statish' where we cannot be trusted to use our common sense any more. And all probably due to a brainless minority who take a delight in in stuffing chemicals into their bodies who of course have to be protected by nameless jobsworths in various authorities world wide.

This was the excuse the owner of Model Land gave me for not stocking any more Humbrol.

[Claude Thibodeau]

6 hours ago, ColonelKrypton said:

Very unlikely anything to do with the propellants.  Tamiya's safety data sheets ( SDS ) show the use of Dimethyl ether  CAS No. 115-10-6 as the propellant.   Mr Hobby / Mr Color / Mr Surfacer aerosol paints show this as their propellant as well as do the limited selection of other brands of aerosol paints for which I have a SDS.

After much digging and reading through many web documents of the Canada Gazette and Environment Canada concerning toxic chemical, I have managed to eliminate most of the chemicals found in the Tamiya aerosol paints except for one.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/canadian-environmental-protection-act-registry/substances-list/toxic/schedule-1.html

2-Butoxyethanol  CAS no. 111-76-2

There is no Canadian manufacture of this chemical and there are limits on how much can be in imported products based on their intended use.

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2023/eccc/En14-510-2023-eng.pdf

Also of note, 2-Butoxyethanol  CAS no. 111-76-2 is listed as an ingredient in Tamiya Lacquer Thinner product no. 87077 but not Tamiya Lacquer Thinner Retarder type product no. 87194, Mr Color thinner but not Mr Color Levelling Thinner, and much of the Mr Hobby Aqueous line of products.

If 2-Butoxyethanol  CAS no. 111-76-2 is in fact what has put the Tamiya aerosols on the naughty list - which has not yet been definitively acknowledged - those other products containing this chemical may also come under scrutiny before too long. The wheels of bureaucracy often turn slowly but will eventually get to where it is headed.  

This is my best guess at the moment and is based on the SDS that I have in hand which may or may not be the most recent or current versions.

More poking, digging, and reading to do. Those regulatory documents are not easy reads and my head is spinning so it is time to take a break.

 

cheers, Graham

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Graham!

Thanks for the search, Very instructive. Now, rest your head please!

CT

[Bugatti Fan]

I wasn't aware of a peel back label on Humbrol exposing microscopic multi language information Les. Will have to have a look at some of my old tinlets !

For a long time now I have been using automotive aerosol acrylics. I can airbrush as well as anyone else, but guess I have just got lazy for their convenience of use.

[Mark]

18 hours ago, Biggu said:

Personally I am not really affected by this , and I have an opinion on this sort of thing, to which I’m gonna have to keep to myself …. But , I can’t help but shake my head when an authority ‘bans’ something because it is potentially ‘harmful’ or ‘dangerous’ and if an importer or vendor gets a ‘permit’ it suddenly becomes ok to sell and purchase with no other changes to the offending product……….how does a ‘permit’ change the product being harmful or dangerous? ?? Seems like a possible money grab ….. I operated heavy equipment and was a low bed driver as well. We could get a ticket for being ‘over weight’ , ‘over width’ or ‘over height’ BUT if we paid for a permit, all was ok…… we were still over weight, over height and over width, the ‘permit’ didn’t change any of that ????I have been getting those permits for well over 30 years…….. I guess it’s the power of the ‘permit’

"Punishable by a fine" = "legal, for a price"...

[Bullybeef]

@ColonelKrypton thank you for doing far more research than I would have been able to do. My head is spinning now.

[iamsuperdan]

21 hours ago, Bullybeef said:

Hey Dan, can you send a pic of the can, that way I can make sure I can get the right one, is it with the automotive paints or in the General paint section?

Here you go!

 

And here's the dark grey, as applied to a resin body a little over a month ago.

[Bullybeef]

1 minute ago, iamsuperdan said:

Here you go!

 

And here's the dark grey, as applied to a resin body a little over a month ago.

Thanks Dan! 

[Bill Eh?]

This specific wording from Borgfeldt, I believe might be key:

"....a chemical with too high of a concentration...

My interpretation is not the chemical itself, but rather the proportion of said chemical to the whole.

[ColonelKrypton]

9 minutes ago, Bill Eh? said:

My interpretation is not the chemical itself, but rather the proportion of said chemical to the whole.

indeed.

It is not so much a complete ban as it is about controlling and limiting exposure.  Depending on the intended use of a product which contains 2-Butoxyethanol or any other toxic substance for that matter, there are often limits set based on those intended uses.

The overview document found in the following link lists product type uses and the specified limits of concentration on a by use basis in %w/w from as high as 22% to as low as 0.1%

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2023/eccc/En14-510-2023-eng.pdf

Aerosol paints and coatings for non-industrial use are unfortunately at the very low end of that scale. SDS's I have for the Tamiya aerosols indicate a concentration of 2-Butoxyethanol from 1% to 5%.

cheers, Graham

[Bill Eh?]

31 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

indeed.

It is not so much a complete ban as it is about controlling and limiting exposure.  Depending on the intended use of a product which contains 2-Butoxyethanol or any other toxic substance for that matter, there are often limits set based on those intended uses.

The overview document found in the following link lists product type uses and the specified limits of concentration on a by use basis in %w/w from as high as 22% to as low as 0.1%

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2023/eccc/En14-510-2023-eng.pdf

Aerosol paints and coatings for non-industrial use are unfortunately at the very low end of that scale. SDS's I have for the Tamiya aerosols indicate a concentration of 2-Butoxyethanol from 1% to 5%.

cheers, Graham

Thanks Graham. In the mean time, I'm going to visit a local but little known RC shop to see if they might still have some cans of Tamiya White Primer! LOL

[bobthehobbyguy]

36 minutes ago, ColonelKrypton said:

indeed.

It is not so much a complete ban as it is about controlling and limiting exposure.  Depending on the intended use of a product which contains 2-Butoxyethanol or any other toxic substance for that matter, there are often limits set based on those intended uses.

The overview document found in the following link lists product type uses and the specified limits of concentration on a by use basis in %w/w from as high as 22% to as low as 0.1%

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2023/eccc/En14-510-2023-eng.pdf

Aerosol paints and coatings for non-industrial use are unfortunately at the very low end of that scale. SDS's I have for the Tamiya aerosols indicate a concentration of 2-Butoxyethanol from 1% to 5%.

cheers, Graham

Thanks for digging into this. I agree with your comment on this not being an outright ban . Contrary to what some want to believe Tamiya paints are not the focus of this moratorium. It just happens that Tamiya to use this chemical. I'm am curious what products use this chemical.

[Ace-Garageguy]

OMG OMG OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JollySipper]

You guys think that this will prompt Tamiya to offer their paints in small tins, maybe for certain markets? A lot of Tamiya users just decant it anyway........ They could bypass the whole aerosol issue all together!

[peteski]

14 minutes ago, JollySipper said:

You guys think that this will prompt Tamiya to offer their paints in small tins, maybe for certain markets? A lot of Tamiya users just decant it anyway........ They could bypass the whole aerosol issue all together!

Seems that the problem is not with the aerosol propellant, but with the chemical composition of the paint.  Tamiya already sells couple of lines of bottled paints.

[Mark]

2 hours ago, JollySipper said:

You guys think that this will prompt Tamiya to offer their paints in small tins, maybe for certain markets? A lot of Tamiya users just decant it anyway........ They could bypass the whole aerosol issue all together!

Tamiya does have a bottled lacquer paint line.

[Bill Eh?]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

Tamiya does have a bottled lacquer paint line.

Yes, it is called the LP line. At this point it does not encompass all of the TS colours, but am confident that they will keep adding to the range.