10-speed automatic truth (Ford and GM), from Next Gen Drivetrain

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

[NOBLNG]

Thanks for posting this Bill !🙂 I’m sure glad my 2017 F250 has the 6 speed. I’ve had no issues so far and reports indicate that it is a very reliable unit. They started using the 10 speeds in 2017 and I wouldn’t have known at the time (no one would) to avoid it.😬

[1972coronet]

10 speed automatic = 5 gears too many. 

[Rodent]

I got as far as cigar guy boasting how he knows more than anyone about this transmission and the drum from the 1K hp Coyote that failed because of it being a crummy transmission and I stopped watching. Figured it was chest beating and an advertisement for whatever Cigar Guy is selling to "fix" the valve bodies. Y'all are welcome to post the Cliff's Notes here.

[TECHMAN]

After seeing this, I decided to "quiz" my local "tranny guru" who deals in GM transmissions exclusively, and a couple of the local "pros" who work for Ford dealerships.  After talking to them about all the trans failures,  I Don't believe there is a salesman alive, that could sell me a new "10 spd" truck, dang sure NOT for close to $100K!!!!!  I gave away my (as the wife called it) pickup-collection when we moved here to Kentucky (did not need a batch of vehicles here).  The '75 Ford F150 Supercab was the old "shop truck" for my racing engine shop, powered by a '76 Chevy L-82 350, and a beefed up Turbo 350.  Put 287K on the truck, when the tranny had to be freshened,  engine was pulled down, and was able to be freshened with rings/bearings and valve job.   Put together in 1985, and WORKED up until 2020.  Can't even begin to guess how many of those 287,000 miles were pulling an enclosed racecar trailer.....

Tranny was built by a good friend back in Longview, known for quality work.  With that said:  If a person that "takes pride in what he turns out" can build a trans that lasts 35 years, being W O R K E D, then  WHY can't a manufacture do the same?????   As I see it:  They don't want to, they want you to HAVE to replace it in 30-35K miles....   Sad state of affairs when companies that USED to take pride in trying to "out last" their competitors, now only want to "out sell" the others (by any means)......  Just my opinion.....

DJ

[Ace-Garageguy]

10 minutes ago, TECHMAN said:

...Tranny was built by a good friend back in Longview, known for quality work.  With that said:  If a person that "takes pride in what he turns out" can build a trans that lasts 35 years, being W O R K E D, then  WHY can't a manufacture do the same?????   As I see it:  They don't want to, they want you to HAVE to replace it in 30-35K miles...

Pretty much my exact thoughts.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 9/10/2025 at 1:22 AM, Rodent said:

I got as far as cigar guy boasting how he knows more than anyone about this transmission and the drum from the 1K hp Coyote that failed because of it being a crummy transmission and I stopped watching. Figured it was chest beating and an advertisement for whatever Cigar Guy is selling to "fix" the valve bodies. Y'all are welcome to post the Cliff's Notes here.

"Cigar Guy" stands behind his products forever. Lifetime warranties. If his stuff is failing, he won't be around for long. Small companies just can't screw ya like the big ones can.

There's no shortage of late-model many-speed gearbox failures and vehicles sitting for months on dealers' lots due to zero parts or replacement gearboxes being available. And the owners are still making the payments while they sit.

I know of several right here in my little ol' neck o' the woods.

Today especially, there are people who are WAY better at what they do than OEM engineers and their bean-counter overlords.

EDIT: There was, by the way, a little company called B&M that took pretty good GM auto boxes and made them into almost indestructible drag-racing boxes, and changed the face of drag racing forever. They worked similar magic on most of the well known US automatics, and are still in business (though, like many other iconic hot-rod businesses they've been absorbed by mega corps). Ring a bell?

Edited Friday at 01:16 AM by Ace-Garageguy

[sfhess]

Ford never got the transmission in the Taurus right.  The "powershift" twin clutch trans in the 2012-up Focus was a joke.  They should have ;looked at what made the C6 and FMX work and last so well.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 9/11/2025 at 10:53 PM, sfhess said:

...They should have looked at what made the C6 and FMX work and last so well.

A very large part of what I see as the cause of some of the questionable engineering emerging from the OEMS is that they're plagued with a "we know nothing about how it was done well before and we don't care, because we're so smart and educated that we can reinvent the wheel every time; after all, we're tech-savvy, not like those knuckle draggers who preceded us".

Engineering should be more evolutionary than revolutionary.

Any truly competent engineer takes historical precedent very seriously, analyzes what has worked well in the past as well as what broke, to understand why, in order to see how to implement lessons learned into future designs.

Edited 22 hours ago by Ace-Garageguy

[mcs1056]

13 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

“we know nothing about how it was done well before and we don't care, because we're so smart and educated that we can reinvent the wheel every time; after all, we're tech-savvy, not like those knuckle draggers who preceded us".

And this explains why we won’t go to the moon very soon. Watch this video showing how smart people just figured stuff out.

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

^^^  This is great.

But what many don't realize is that people like this...engineer-it-to-the-best-of-our-ability, build it, test it, see what breaks, record and analyze the results, fix what broke, test it again, find the next weakness and fix that, etc., etc., etc...developed the numbers that CAD and CAE and CFD programs use to help engineers design things today.

This points up the disturbing ongoing push in bean-counter-driven engineering towards "zero prototypes", where designs in the computer go straight to production with no physical-testing phase.

Though CAD/CAE/CFD are absolutely wonderful tools, the data they run on is not complete for every possible situation, and even the best of the best of the best data-driven computer simulations should never be taken as the final proof that anything complex is fully developed.

Reality can ALWAYS come up with something the simulations and the people running them never dreamed of.

 

[Rob Hall]

My Cadillac has the 10spd automatic, very smooth.  There is a recall for it, will be taking it in for an oil change soon and get the fix (which appears to be a software only fix).   My Jeep has the ZF 8spd auto, also very smooth.

[Mark]

It only stands to reason that, when you have ten gears instead of four or five, and the two transmissions are roughly the same size and weight relative to one another, everything inside the ten-speed's case is going to be smaller, thinner, and weaker.

[oldcarfan]

My Lexus RX has an eight speed trans and being a Toyota product it should last a long time, however, it never feels right somehow. Definitely not as good as my older 5 speed model. The new one always seems unsure what gear it wants to be in and sometimes you have to floorboard it to get it to down shift when you need it to. I've asked on the forums and the consensus is that's just the way it is. If they still made them and my knees were in better condition, I would rather have a manual or at least another 5 speed automatic.

[deuces wild]

I could have ordered my GT/CS Mustang with the 10 speed auto.. That would have been an extra 1,500-2,000 bucks on the sticker price... Besides.... I like "drive" sports cars..😁😎

[junkyardjeff]

Could not pay me enough to take a new truck of any brand now,I hear Toyotas are having issues too so all old stuff for me.

[NOBLNG]

All the issues with the 10 speed means I will NEVER trade in my ‘17 F250 6spd for a new model. I will repair it endlessly if necessary. Why in the world would you want 10 gears anyway….? Smoothness? I don’t recall ever getting whiplash from my old 3 spd autos. I know fuel economy numbers are the driving force behind the shift but with the cost of repairs it sure doesn’t make economic sense.

[Mattilacken]

On 9/13/2025 at 5:04 PM, Rob Hall said:

My Cadillac has the 10spd automatic, very smooth.  There is a recall for it, will be taking it in for an oil change soon and get the fix (which appears to be a software only fix).   My Jeep has the ZF 8spd auto, also very smooth.

Make sure you have the jeeps recalls in order so you can continue to drive it if it haves the good (not) magnetic crank positioning that they have on the 3.0d.

 

Sitting underneath my 15 GC with 8spd ZF after replacing that tone ring and sensor. transmission needs to come down.

[Rob Hall]

1 minute ago, Mattilacken said:

Make sure you have the jeeps recalls in order so you can continue to drive it if it haves the good (not) magnetic crank positioning that they have on the 3.0d.

 

Sitting underneath my 15 GC with 8spd ZF after replacing that tone ring and sensor. transmission needs to come down.

I've been good about dealer service and recalls on mine.  So far, no issues...I have a '14 GC 3.6 w/ 81k miles. 

[TECHMAN]

4 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

I know fuel economy numbers are the driving force behind the shift but with the cost of repairs it sure doesn’t make economic sense.

And just HOW MANY gallons of gas could a person buy for the cost of one of those 10-speed trannys?????????

DJ

[NOBLNG]

9 minutes ago, TECHMAN said:

And just HOW MANY gallons of gas could a person buy for the cost of one of those 10-speed trannys?????????

DJ

Rough calculation $9,000.00 divided by $3.18 equals 2,830 gallons.😳

[1972coronet]

59 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

Rough calculation $9,000.00 divided by $3.18 equals 2,830 gallons.😳

Where is this fantasy land in which fuels that cost less than $5 / gallon ?

[1972coronet]

Not sure as to why the manufacturers don't "simply" go to a 2 or 3 speed rear instead of hacking around with shoving 10 pounds of "BLAH_BLAH" into a 5 pound box ? 

Of course this wouldn't be possible with wrong-wheel-drive vehicles, only rear-drive setups. 

[Rob Hall]

5 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

Where is this fantasy land in which fuels that cost less than $5 / gallon ?

About $3.05 for regular unleaded in my area in NE Ohio.  

[peteski]

1 hour ago, 1972coronet said:

Not sure as to why the manufacturers don't "simply" go to a 2 or 3 speed rear instead of hacking around with shoving 10 pounds of "BLAH_BLAH" into a 5 pound box ? 

Of course this wouldn't be possible with wrong-wheel-drive vehicles, only rear-drive setups. 

As I remember it explained elsewhere, it is in large part for fuel economic and efficiency.  Having large number of gears is there to keep the engine's RPMs in the narrow and most efficient range at most operating speeds.  My 2019 Kia Soul has a 6-speed computer controlled automatic transmission, but observing the tach. I see that there are also other things that happen (probably torque converted clutch and some other similar doo-dads) which affect on the engine's RPMs.  I don't much care for it. I would much prefer a 4-speed auto transmission.

Just like someone else mentioned, one of the annoying things is that it doesn't want to downshift even when I floor the gas pedal when trying to avoid a sticky situation. It is like "I don't think you need to accelerate this fast".  These transmissions (well, the computer controlling them) supposedly learn your driving habits to adjust the shift points.  And don't get me going abotu the ABS brakes, although my Kia is a bit better than was my 2006 Scion xB.