mom and pop vs. big hobby shop

[Guest Johnny]

The last two here locally put themselves out of business.

One turned his focus to the fickle model railroad guys who pushed him to stock more and more train stuff. To do that he cut back on models and RC stuff because all the profit went to buy what the RR guys said he needed to stock.

Then they stopped coming in after a while. When he called some of them to tell them he had the stuff they asked him for they either had bought it elsewhere, or were too broke or said they had all they could use for now but maybe later..............

When he was selling out he sold most on ebay and actually turned a profit but it could not save his business.

He admitted he had driven away his best customers, The modelers and the RC guys.

The other guy went almost all RC and even opened a track! Big business and he all but dumped plastic with just a small aisle of models.

That lasted about two years and like someone turned a switch people just stopped coming to the track and buying RC stuff.

Some of the old customers were trying to sell their used stuff through him but he could not help them either. He said all most would say is they had moved on to something else. Most the kids sauid it was not any fun anymore others said it was too much work to keep them running!

Both places were higher than buying on line. Myself I didn't even have a home computer yet. I think 2005 was the first time I ever went on line.So I bought from them even though I knew from others I could go online cheaper. Felt I would rather support a local business.

Now the few places I have went up north, I would never go back to. Punk kids who were more bothered by you being there interrupting their game playing than having interest in selling anything!

One was a husband and wife and talk about rude people! Instead of asking if we needed help he pushes me out of the way saying I have to keep the aisle clear???? F Him!!!

[ToyLvr]

Hey Internet Shopping fans, I'm not entirely "down" on internet shopping - I do buy some things online.

I'm just saying that for me personally, I can stop by the LHS on the way home from work (or while running errands on Saturday), and make a quick dash in to buy supplies (or even a kit) and be back home at my workbench in minutes. I cannot get that sort of *immediate* service and delivery when buying on the internet. So, for me, it really IS faster and more convenient to visit the LHS.

As for making a "direct judgement on product quality", there are a lot of other components that are often involved in building a model car these days besides the kit itself. Aftermarket parts, for example, consisting of things like wheels, tires, prewired distributors, photoetch kits, resin parts, etc, etc. it's nice, in some cases, to be able to inspect these items firsthand before you decide to buy to assure that they meet your needs. And as for the kit itself, if you insist on it, a quality-minded LHS will usually allow you to open a kit and inspect it before buying. Photos on an internet site are helpful sometimes, but NOTHING takes the place of being able to examine the product in person, IMHO.

In the final analysis, it's a free country, and we each spend our money how and where we want to (except for being taxed to death, but that's another never-ending topic for discussion).

[Harry P.]

In the final analysis, it's a free country, and we each spend our money how and where we want to (except for being taxed to death...

Now there's something I agree with you on 100%!

[Dave Ambrose]

I don't know about other areas, but my local hobby shops are only open because of the RC people. They spend big bucks on their airplanes or cars, and most importantly, they crash. That means repeat business.

Armor and aircraft modeling is most popular here in San Diego. Not unexpected with the large contingent of retired and active duty Marines. Model cars are something of an afterthought. They have started carrying some detail parts, but if I really want the big selection, I need to drive up to the LA area.

Oddly enough, science fiction modeling is growing. They've doubled their shelf space on that genre in the last year or so. Guess there are more geeks than old guys. Though some of us qualify as both.

[Mercman]

Interesting points of veiw from all. Back in the 80's I managed a craft/hobby store in Mhd. When I started there they were basically all about crafts, dolls, beads and the such. The owner did it because she was a crafter. I started after her death, and got the management ot add to the model car, and such line of merchandise, as that is what I knew. However I took time to educate myself in the other fields of merchandise we sold, and became fairly knowledgeable with the same. Got to be I got to know some of the regular customers quite well, and we implemented a discount program for them. Also if they were looking for something special I would order it for them. Basically it came down to customer service.

As for the internet I have bought a few things on that auction site, but find I can get it faster, and get better service here at my LHS. Besides the one shop we have her we have 2 specialty shops that carry RC planes only, and the other RC cars only. We also have a Michael's, and a Hobby Lobby, which has downsized the area that I frequent the most, trains, and dio supplies. But ti still frequent them on hunting for other items I may find useful. Check out the bead dept. sometime, and just let your imagination go wild. All sorts of different items that can made use of.

Back to our LHS, I knew the manager when he run the Gager's Hobby Store here in the 70's. They moved though after sometime, which left us with a small MOM and POP place. This one closed due to the decision to add white ware( plaster castings), and the lack of just because.Now back to the local LHS, back in the 80's again the current shop opened up here, and I frequent him regularly. He provides a good selection of product, is quite knowledgeable in all aspects of the supplies he stocks, trains, models RC, gaming, and more. Also you can talk with him about new products, and he will special order for you. He orders on Tue, and you get it Fri of the same week.

Recently he revamped the shop to give modeler's, and the gamers a place to meet once a month. This is room he could use to stock product, but has done this for those who keep him going. His staff though young, are fairly knowledgeable about what they sell, with most being into a specialty like RC or gaming.

I do however about twice a year drive to Mpls. 250 miles away to peruse a couple of the hobby shops there. I can go in, and find stuff that isn't stocked here in town, and load up on different supplies, or OOP kits, and paints. As for the net, I have ordered a few things, but don't do much online, as I prefer the face to face contact. It's great to talk to some one about your ideas, and get their take on it.

Well that's just 2 cents worth.

Oh yeah before I forget the store I worked for closed due to bad management by the CEO, didn't pay the bills like he should have.

[lordairgtar]

I am so happy I live near Milwaukee. We have the best LHS selection out there. Plus being involved with two model shows, it's nice that I can call and ask for door prize stuff from the owners. I know them and they know me. I tend to support those who support the hobby locally. I have to give kudos to a big company, Revell, for helping out with kits and displays of upcoming stuff at our NNL.

[slusher]

should and it actually passing are two different things, and they also say that it might not as pass, just like another bill that goes before the house, but this is cutting it very close to that line of talking politics, so we should leave it at that.

Its a matter of time before we have sales tax on online purchaces. No argument.

[slusher]

l wish there was a hobby shop in my area. l would love to shop at one. l visit one in east TN on vacation. He buys collections from time to time and he sold the oop kits for 10 to 15 bucks with tax. Thats cheap. The hobby lobby in our area does a good job and has a large testors paint section but no tamiya paint. l buy what l don't get from them thru ebay and model roundup. Ebay shipping prices is another topic....

[Modelbuilder Mark]

A: How can you make a "direct judgement on product quality" by looking at the box?

Our LHS will open the box up for you to review if need be, so at least in our case, not just the box to look at.

Recently, they had the Revell London Bus, and let me tell you, there is just NO way that you can get that same experience looking at it online, even if you can find a review or something that has all the sprue laid out etc.

Plus, the guy that posted that also mentioned that their LHS would buy kits from estate sales etc, so compared to buying online from someone who says "Seems to be complete", then with the old kit right there in your hands, you may be able to see for yourself if it is complete, or warped etc etc.

To that end, you still go the the grocery I assume? Around here, you can actually shop online for your groceries right from the same brick and mortar store that is all over the place, and they will deliver them right to your door. But, people still want to go to the store, thump the watermelons etc.

Again, both avenues work.

[martinfan5]

Our LHS will open the box up for you to review if need be, so at least in our case, not just the box to look at.

What store?

Edited May 6, 2013 by martinfan5

[ScaleDale]

I have several local shops within driving distance and I prefer them to the Net for the hands on aspect of browsing the physical world. But then I'm 65. One of my shops is a Hobby Town that pre dates the chain and uses the name with the "big guys" permission. They have models and RC planes and ships. Another has a lot of scratch stuff and RC and slot racers along with the kits. A third shop sells a lot of train stuff and is in an interesting part of town. All this makes going model hunting fun and interesting.

Beyond all this, there's a social responsibility thing in buying at small businesses. You pay local taxes that support the community you live in and provide income for owners and employees who you can look in the eye.

My parents told me all this stuff is good, and they were always right.

I cut my modeling teeth at Brown's Fun House in Toledo, Ohio in the '60s. My next door neighbor quit his job to open it and here I am scratch building Thunderbolts and Mustangs 50 years later. Will anyone ever say they learned to model on Amazon?

And don't give me that "Back in the day is gone for good" garbage. That experience helped form my life.

Dale

[southpier]

... the hobby shop price, plus sales tax, plus the gas (at over $4/gallon here) to get to the hobby shop and back. Total cost is the bottom line.

escaping for an hour or two, priceless!

[2002p51]

I have access to two national chain stores in my area but no "mom&pop" type stores that some of you wax so nostalgically about.

One, Hobby Lobby, is very close but carries almost nothing that I want. I can get quality paint brushes in their art supply section but their selection of kits is minimal. They have a small rack of Testors paint, but no other modeling supplies of any kind. I rarely go in there.

There is a Hobbytown USA, but it's a 50 mile round trip so, because of that, I don't go there too often. These guys have decent customer service and a couple of employees know who I am and are friendly. But like Harry, I know way more about what I plan to buy when I walk in there than they do.

The store is focused on R/C stuff and a most of the square footage is given to that side of the business. They have decent model railroad stuff which I buy but their selection of model car kits, like Hobby Lobby, is limited. Also their prices on most of those kits are the same or higher than what you would pay on-line including shipping, so I rarely buy kits there. They do have a wide selection of paint and Evergreen. The problem there is when they're out of stock on that stuff, it could be months before they get more in. They don't carry anything like Bare Metal foil, resin parts, etc. so that has to be purchased on-line. They can't handle special orders, so that option is out too.

So consequently I buy the majority of my kits on eBay. And again, like Harry, I shop price, price, price. Other hobby supplies I buy mostly direct from the manufacturer's web site.

I like the convenience of shopping on-line and having stuff delivered to my door. I like doing my own research to find what I want.

If there was a local mom & pop type place that carried everything I wanted, at competitive prices, and was a place I could hang out, I'd probably shop there all the time. Trouble is, in today's economy that's not a viable business plan and the days of places like that existing and surviving are long gone.

[Brett Barrow]

Sorry, I didn't take time to read through all the responses first, but I will go back and read when I get the chance.

Since my day job (for the next few days at least, I'll be taking a new job soon, but I'll still in the hobby industry) is working in the sales and distribution of hobby products to chain, internet, and mom & pop shops, I'm probably in a unique position to comment on this subject. I've found that the #1 reason for the closure of the mom & pop shop is not due to declining sales, but rather to an escalation of the business getting to a point the owners cannot or do not want to sustain it to that level, or due to mom & pop having no successors, no "& sons" or "& daughters" if you will, willing to take over the business once mom & pop don't want to do it anymore. If a shop survives its first year or two, they've found their way and will grow if they choose to make that commitment to their business and give it the attention it deserves. The ones that don't give it what it takes will blame the weather, location, the internet, video games, meteor showers, North Korea, the gub'mint, Justin Beiber, and on and on, everything but their own actions and decisions, but if they're committed they will sustain and grow. Lean times will separate the wheat from the chaff, the strong will survive and come out the other side stronger, while the uncommitted will wither on the vine.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[gtx6970]

I haven't bought much lately that is a current kit. So most of my purchases in the past 12-18 months is online ( 90% of which has been Ebay )

I do have a Micheals and a Hobby Lobby close by but neither carry much modeling wise., kits or supplies

Otherwise I only have one actual hobby shop , but he is more into RC stuff . We've talked and he is willing to listen and add in model kits , he just doesn't want to have thousands of dollars invested in slow moving store stock

[Fabrux]

Here's the breakdown for me:

I live in Canada. Due to this apparent crime twist of fate, shipping for items purchased online is, quite simply, absolutely ridiculous. This is not simply due to the price of shipping (excessive) but the long wait times as parcels languish in customs. To get something shipped to my door from the US I'm going to have a four week wait, minimum. Thankfully there is a huge cottage industry in US/Canada border towns that accept parcels for Canadians that live near the US border so they can save on shipping costs and wait times. I live 1.5 hours from one of these border towns (Calais, ME) and head down there frequently. Seeing as how I have to make a special trip to pick up my parcels, I usually wait until either a] I have a few parcels waiting or b] my wife has a craving for certain foods only sold in the US.

My LHS also happens to be 1.5 hours away, but in a different direction than the US border. The guy that runs the LHS runs it out of his home, so he doesn't have to worry about the overhead usually associated with a usual store. He's a member of the local modeling club also, so he comes to the meetings and usually brings the latest releases with him so we can inspect the contents and decide to purchase. He builds automotive, some sci-fi, and armour so there's always something interesting to look at that either expands your horizons or reinforces your chosen subject material (Have you ever looked at an armour kit? So many little parts!). I also consider him a friend and we chat for hours about this, that, and the other thing whenever I stop in to his shop. I much prefer the experience of visiting his shop than shopping online for kits. I have pretty much limited myself to purchasing OOP kits online and new releases from my LHS. He is part of the Revell exclusive sellers group or whatever and gets their new releases a few weeks before anywhere else. His prices are usually the same as buying online + shipping, so there is rarely a better price online.

I consider myself fortunate that my LHS happens to be in the same city (on the same road, even) as my employer's head office. Club meetings are also in the same city so I can work at the head office on meeting days, stop in the LHS, and attend meetings and be reimbursed for my driving expenses. Not everyone is so fortunately but I have never understood people that always try to negotiate on price based on what it cost for them to drive around. If you own a vehicle, paying for gas is something you can't avoid and you know you're going to have to fork over for it so stop using that as an excuse.

Edited May 6, 2013 by kataranga

[johnbuzzed]

Ask Rich Manson- I'm a known fence-sitter

I would prefer to buy at a LHS and I do, whenever I get the chance. I feel better having an idea that the $$$ is staying local, along with the local sales tax. "Wow, cool, look what I found!": it's like the thrill of the chase, probably stemming from our hunter/forager origins. And, at least you can have a somewhat intelligent conversation regarding their wares and/or your purchase or interests. But I also buy at the chains such as Hobby Lobby and Michaels, depending on the situation (and if I'm with my wife as she's doing her shopping). I do also buy some items on-line because they are not available anywhere else or a LHS doesn't carry the item(s); sometimes, just out of convenience. None of the brick-and-mortar stores can carry everything that the "cottage industry" provides, and it's nice to be able to place an order for something whenever the notion arises, knowing that it will be in the mailbox or at the front door soon.

But I will always be aware of the fact that there is nothing wrong with nostalgia. That's why Round 2 continues to reissue kits with (almost) original packaging- it makes those who buy those kits feel good. That's why so many of us baby-boomers seek cars from our past. There are times when the old American adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" does mean something. Why change, just for the sake of change, or adapt a new philosophy just because everyone else seems to be doing it? New or different does not necessarlily equal better.

Edited May 7, 2013 by johnbuzzed

[wgflatliner]

i like a combination of LHS and online. LHS for the local groups, builds, and bonding, etc. Convenience of getting stuff like paints and stuff on a whim is nice.

but i also like the online experience for the fact that i can look for something and chances are, somewhere in the world, it WILL be available.

[Nacho Z]

This is a good topic and I appreciate the fact that it has remained civil. It seems that the topic has gone from why LHS fail to LHS vs. Internet sales. Both sides of the LHS vs. Internet have made some great points. There really is no one right answer but rather a combination of things, most of which have been covered.

I have to say I tend to lean towards the LHS side of things. It may have to do with my upbringing. I came from a small town in ND before there was the internet. We had no stoplights, no chain stores, no fast food places. My father had his own auto repair garage and my wife's parents owned a sporting goods store, (mainly hunting and fishing). We both understood the importance of supporting the local businesses. It is how we got fed. We bought our jewelery, our baked goods, our shovels and rakes, our bicycles, etc from the local merchants. It was just the way it was.

The two major, (by ND standards), cities nearby started building malls and shopping centers on the outskirts of their towns. People could drive an hour or two and have a larger assortment of goods to purchase at a better price. Eventually, one by one, the jewelery store closed, the bakery closed and so on. Now there are less people working and less people buying. It is somewhat of a vicious cycle. When there are no jobs people leave and go to where the jobs are.

I know the above is an over-simplification and is not unique to my hometown. But that lesson had been drilled into my head and I still feel that way today. I will, within reason, support my local businesses. I know full well that I may pay a little more for a kit or paint or whatever. I do it gladly.

Our LHS sponsored our model contest, gave us door prizes and allowed us to meet in their store, (they would stay after hours for us). Many times they would , unannounced, give us 20% off anything purchased that night. There were guys in my club that would come to meetings held in that store and would open kits to look at them and then buy them from the internet. Sadly, my LHS closed a couple of years ago.

Yes, I buy plenty from the internet, but I sure do miss my LHS.

[ToyLvr]

Thanks, Dale Shearon, for making the point I was struggling to find the words for, only you do it in a much more eloquent fashion!

Internet stores do nothing to support our individual communities....

[Tom Geiger]

I buy lots of stuff on the Internet, from my cars to mulch, but I can understand why people like to go to the local hobby shop. There is nothing like getting up on a Saturday morning and having somewhere to go to have a good modeling conversation and see who you can bump into. It can be a social thing, a human contact thing, seeing people of like minds. Yea, we have that here on the boards, but there's nothing like people in person!

If indeed I had that customer focused hobby shop I spoke of earlier in this thread, I'd have a big round table in the middle of the shop where modelers could sit and talk. I'd also have regular seminars on different topics, to different audiences to keep people coming in. As you know, when you go to the hobby shop just to look, you automatically spend $50 or more!

[Rob Hall]

I enjoy dropping by my local hobby shop after work a couple times a month, to see what has come in, pick up a new release or two and supplies. I buy a lot of kits from online retailers in the US and Japan also. I avoid the big chains.

[crazyjim]

I went up to Grand Rapids, MI to visit my Mom a few ago. She lives only a few blocks from Rider's Hobby Shop. I was in the market for 1/8" aluminum tubing and found it. Trouble was it was 36" long and wouldn't fit into my suitcase. So I asked an employee (heavy set young guy) to cut it down. He said he can't because they don't have the tools to do so. In the the meantime, I was waiting for a fellow forum member to show up. Another employee asked me how I was doing and I related the tubing issue to him. This guy was older (maybe the owner for all I know) and he miraculously found an X-Acto knife in a drawer and cut the tubing for me.

I actually had selected a couple of model kits and some other stuff to purchase and set those items down after the first employee. No way was I going to buy anything from a place with an attitude. After the tubing was cut, I went over and grabbed the other stuff I wasn't going to purchase. I think I left about $100 bucks there.

[bbowser]

This is a good topic and I appreciate the fact that it has remained civil. It seems that the topic has gone from why LHS fail to LHS vs. Internet sales. Both sides of the LHS vs. Internet have made some great points. There really is no one right answer but rather a combination of things, most of which have been covered.

I have to say I tend to lean towards the LHS side of things. It may have to do with my upbringing. I came from a small town in ND before there was the internet. We had no stoplights, no chain stores, no fast food places. My father had his own auto repair garage and my wife's parents owned a sporting goods store, (mainly hunting and fishing). We both understood the importance of supporting the local businesses. It is how we got fed. We bought our jewelery, our baked goods, our shovels and rakes, our bicycles, etc from the local merchants. It was just the way it was.

The two major, (by ND standards), cities nearby started building malls and shopping centers on the outskirts of their towns. People could drive an hour or two and have a larger assortment of goods to purchase at a better price. Eventually, one by one, the jewelery store closed, the bakery closed and so on. Now there are less people working and less people buying. It is somewhat of a vicious cycle. When there are no jobs people leave and go to where the jobs are.

I know the above is an over-simplification and is not unique to my hometown. But that lesson had been drilled into my head and I still feel that way today. I will, within reason, support my local businesses. I know full well that I may pay a little more for a kit or paint or whatever. I do it gladly.

Our LHS sponsored our model contest, gave us door prizes and allowed us to meet in their store, (they would stay after hours for us). Many times they would , unannounced, give us 20% off anything purchased that night. There were guys in my club that would come to meetings held in that store and would open kits to look at them and then buy them from the internet. Sadly, my LHS closed a couple of years ago.

Yes, I buy plenty from the internet, but I sure do miss my LHS.

I agree with this 100%. Keeping your dollars local is to me more important that the absolute rock-bottom lowest price. At some point the only jobs left will be the greeters at the local Wally World.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Beyond all this, there's a social responsibility thing in buying at small businesses. You pay local taxes that support the community you live in and provide income for owners and employees who you can look in the eye.

You know, there really IS a lot of wisdom here, and if you REALLY pay attention, the pendulum is beginning to swing back this way....very definitely in my community, and I imagine it's pretty widespread.