I think I'm a dying breed

[JunkPile]

'tards....REALLY Ace?

[MAGNUM4342]

'tards....REALLY Ace?

X2! To me that word, truncated or in it's entirety is just as offensive as some words that they've tried to ban!

[JunkPile]

I'm always amazed that the 'tards will still diagnose a burned valve without even doing a compression test. Just goes to show how few folks REALLY know how an IC engine operates. I wonder what the shop's excuse would have been if the Mustang with the bad Pertronix unit had HAD the recommended valve job and had still run like .

I'm also am frequently entertained by how many aftermarket parts are installed with total disregard for the instructions, and then the installer blames the unit. I guess reading the instructions (and understanding them) isn't deemed to be a necessity.

My hat's off to Maindrian Pace (Mike). All the right moves, in the right orde

Isn't it about time for you to get over yourself ???

[george 53]

OK George I have to call BS. Did you really rebuild the rear suspension on a "Porche" 917 ??? First you should know it is spelled Porsche, second the 917 was a 12 cylinder full race car that was run in Can Am and Le Mans, not a street driven Porsche. I highly doubt that the Porsche factory engineers would have let a high school kid from Detroit work on one of their, at the time state of the art race cars. Don't worry, I do believe the old part.

No problem Rod. My autoshop teacher at Ecorse High School's name was Leonard Armstrong. Mr. Armstrongs brother was a Dr. who enjoyed raceing. In 1971 whenI was in the 12 gr, Dr. Armstong aquired TWO 917 Porsche's and had them sent over from Germany. One was all white with gold scallops and the other was a weird candy green with gold scallops, supposedly run at Le Mans. Mr Armstrong, the teacher, asked mysel and my classmate to dissassemble and check the bearings and axles for stress cracks and trueness. It was a big job, but with the service manuals and his guidance we did it. That's when he took us out at Lime Rock I believe, it was in Ohio, and we got to ride in it, to MAKE SURE we had done it right. I'm glad we HAD!

[69NovaYenko]

True, Mike. And it's even funnier (ironic) that bad diagnostics almost always involve the most expensive repair possible. Funny they never seem to mis-diagnose cheaper!

There are a lot of highly skilled, competent and honest repair shops and mechanics (of all ages) out there!!!

With that said, now-a-days, there are some repair technicians and auto services facilities (particularly some that are affiliated with large nationally chains) who`s focus is being a "good earner" for the parent organization. Either, the national or regional office have mandated that each store must hit specific sales quotas or bring in X amount of $$$ monthly if the employee/shop manager wishes to be seen in a favorable light with his superiors. This type of environment breeds up-selling and /or diagnostics involving the most expensive repair possible.

While I hate to say this and my words may seem harshly grotesque to some;however it is an unfortunate sign of the times. Buzz words like "friendly", helpful","customer service", "valued customer", honesty" and "integrity" are mere punch lines to get you the customer in the door; sadly "profitability" are the new marching orders of the day for some (not all) repair facilities/service techs.

Edited October 23, 2013 by 69NovaYenko

[Ace-Garageguy]

Isn't it about time for you to get over yourself ???

Gee, just because I know my stuff and I'm not afraid to call an idiot an idiot in this over-pampered PC BS world? Nah, I'm okay. My mission in life just isn't to be inoffensive when dealing with rampant incompetence, which IS rampant, in EVERY industry, and I see it DAILY.

I am sorry if anyone was offended by my word choice, but it's accurately descriptive of the behavior noted. At least someone intellectually challenged (happy now ? ) has an excuse for being incompetent in a technically demanding setting.

Let me clarify. DIAGNOSING AN ENGINE MALFUNCTION AND RECOMMENDING A VALVE JOB, WITHOUT DOING A COMPRESSION TEST...IS INCOMPETENT...or just plain dishonest. Everything else that was done to the car was idiot monkey-motion as well. When Mike got it and went through the right procedure, surprise...he got the car to run right. Simply amazing what happens when you actually KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Deano]

Gee, just because I know my stuff and I'm not afraid to call an idiot an idiot in this over-pampered PC BS world? Nah, I'm okay. My mission in life just isn't to be inoffensive when dealing with rampant incompetence, which IS rampant, in EVERY industry, and I see it DAILY.

I am sorry if anyone was offended by my word choice, but it's accurately descriptive of the behavior noted. At least someone intellectually challenged (happy now ? ) has an excuse for being incompetent in a technically demanding setting.

Let me clarify. DIAGNOSING AN ENGINE MALFUNCTION AND RECOMMENDING A VALVE JOB, WITHOUT DOING A COMPRESSION TEST...IS INCOMPETENT...or just plain dishonest. Everything else that was done to the car was idiot monkey-motion as well. When Mike got it and went through the right procedure, surprise...he got the car to run right. Simply amazing what happens when you actually KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Interesting how your descriptor didn't offend me, like I'm sure in this modern society it was supposed to; of course it didn't apply to me. I also refuse to be offended on someone else's behalf; let THEM be offended for themselves. I could go on and get into a rant, but then I'd just get into trouble.

[wrecker388]

...and we're already encountering the "not economically feasible to repair" syndrome when all of the fancy computer management ###### gets old and quits. There are already MANY electronic components no longer serviced by the vehicle manufacturers, and the aftermarket doesn't have them either. Cars like the old Ford that responded happily to a competent tech with a simple carb-rebuild kit have been replaced by a fleet of vehicles THAT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP OPERATING without significant re-engineering.

100% Agreement. A friend of mine who has a 98 Sunfire has repeatedly tried to tell me how much better his car is than my Thunderbird. He will argue and say that it will still start when it is 35 years old. I then proceed to tell him that the computer would have long died, and he tries to call me an idiot and say the computer will still be good. He currently goes to the local Vocational school if that shows what the youngest generation is learning.

Edited October 23, 2013 by wrecker388

[tbill]

well, on a lighter note, in the past week and a half I have had to replace a water pump on two buicks, one being a 68 riv, and the other a 62 electra 225 rag top. I mean really, what are the chances of these two cars showing up in my area in the same week, and both needing the same repair.....[ ya, I know, apparently pretty good from my little story, haha, but I found it funny]

[charlie8575]

He currently goes to the local Vocational school if that shows what the youngest generation is learning.

Having taught, Riley, I know what the youngest generation is learning on all fronts- math, language, social studies, science, and practical arts-type classes like shop and home ec.

Wanna know something? What they are learning terrifies me, and it should terrify everyone else, too.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

There are a lot of highly skilled, competent and honest repair shops and mechanics (of all ages) out there!!!

With that said, now-a-days, there are some repair technicians and auto services facilities (particularly some that are affiliated with large nationally chains) who`s focus is being a "good earner" for the parent organization. Either, the national or regional office have mandated that each store must hit specific sales quotas or bring in X amount of $$$ monthly if the employee/shop manager wishes to be seen in a favorable light with his superiors. This type of environment breeds up-selling and /or diagnostics involving the most expensive repair possible.

While I hate to say this and my words may seem harshly grotesque to some;however it is an unfortunate sign of the times. Buzz words like "friendly", helpful","customer service", "valued customer", honesty" and "integrity" are mere punch lines to get you the customer in the door; sadly "profitability" are the new marching orders of the day for some (not all) repair facilities/service techs.

I agree with every word you said.

A friend's brother worked for one of the major chains for oh....maybe 1-1/2 or 2 years. It amazed me.

The mechanics weren't just getting flat hourly pay (and pretty low pay), but they were getting commissions on their repair bills?!

The amount of duplicity I had heard coming out of what was being done to customers and employee alike was horrifying. Enough so that I won't patronize this chain any longer. In addition, he was being cut out of the big jobs because he was being honest with the customers. I guess that's a no-no, too?

About a year ago, after being canned for actually doing his job right, he ended up at a big regional tire/light repair shop's garage near were he lives. Totally different culture. He's paid pretty well- perhaps a little less than an independent shop, but he's still making good money, gets good benefits, a ham at Christmas, bonuses, and all sorts of stuff. Best job he's ever had.

It's not just how you run your business- it's how you treat your customers, and that will be reflected in how you treat your employees.

Charlie Larkin

[MAGNUM4342]

"...If you want me to (#2) in a box and mark it guaranteed I will, I got spare time." - Tommy Boy

(I hope I cleaned that up in an appropriate way)

I have to agree as well. I have a relative working at a local dealership, so we take all our cars there. We've never asked for or expected a discount because he was there, we took our cars there because he was there. If he's not there though, as soon as we pull in we get attitude. My mom always believes in being nice, because they don't know how to handle that. A yelling, acting out person they see regularly and they know how to just tune out. When you're saccharine sweet to them however, they don't know how to react. She's very good at shaming them. We're looking for a new regular shop but are under no illusions that we'll get good service anywhere past about the first two visits. It's harder to find a good mechanic than it is a doctor.

Edited October 26, 2013 by MAGNUM4342

[Maindrian Pace]

I'm also am frequently entertained by how many aftermarket parts are installed with total disregard for the instructions, and then the installer blames the unit. I guess reading the instructions (and understanding them) isn't deemed to be a necessity.

My hat's off to Maindrian Pace (Mike). All the right moves, in the right order.

Thanks Bill. Here's the car:

Which may be a part of the problem. It's real nice. Non-car guy owner of a 30K+ restored classic comes into shifty shop, and it's a license to steal. There is a good chance that the shop knew it was a bad module, played like it wasn't, planned to do a valve job, the $1,500 estimate would have swelled to $2,500 or more with a few extra profit makers ("we noticed your alternator and water pump are going out") then put it all together with a new Pertronix or points, it would have run well if they set everything OK, and the owner would have felt somewhat ripped but he wouldn't have ever known the extent of it.

Or maybe they really were that clueless, which is also possible.

-MJS

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here's the car:...Which may be a part of the problem. It's real nice. Non-car guy owner of a 30K+ restored classic comes into shifty shop, and it's a license to steal. There is a good chance that the shop knew it was a bad module, played like it wasn't, planned to do a valve job, the $1,500 estimate would have swelled to $2,500 or more with a few extra profit makers ("we noticed your alternator and water pump are going out") then put it all together with a new Pertronix or points, it would have run well if they set everything OK, and the owner would have felt somewhat ripped but he wouldn't have ever known the extent of it.

Or maybe they really were that clueless, which is also possible.

-MJS

Great looking car...glad it runs as good as it looks now.

It's hard to tell a shop's motives and capabilities without working there, but I was in the business for many years, and I've seen it all...including well-known guys who SHOULD have known what they were doing but didn't...and just plain crooks, even in aviation. Unless you're a knowledgeable gearhead, you're kinda at the mercy of the trust monster.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I had a fleet client once bring me a Chevy van that was overheating and blowing clouds of white smoke, missing on a least one cylinder, and the auto trans was slipping badly, and wouldn't throttle-downshift. He'd been told he had a cracked head, a blown head gasket, a cracked block, and needed a trans overhaul.

Compression test showed less than 10% variation from hole to hole, but a couple of the plugs looked very strange...oil fouling but lean. I found a vacuum leak inside the trans vacuum modulator that had been letting trans fluid pass into the intake manifold (hence the miss, the white smoke and lack of partial-throttle-kickdown).The trans fluid was low...naturally (the cause of the trans slipping). I took the thermostat out and tested it...stuck solid. Did a combustion-gas in-the- coolant test and came up fine. Put in a new thermostat, filled the trans, cleaned and gapped the plugs and tidied up the timing, etc. Ran just like it was supposed to, all problems solved. He was ecstatic.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[DonW]

My local mechanic, Carl, had my BMW 328i in to fix the passenger window that was stuck open. He ordered the relevent part, but ended up just cleaning everything and lubricating it, and did the same on the driver's side too. He's sent the part back and charged me half what I was expecting. Support these people!

[Nxr]

i donno, i am 24 and very much appreciate the old cars and technology, i look at it as a bigger variety to my choices, i mean all these kids i consider my peers know nothing better than their leased altimas maximas and accords, or in some cases bmw 5 series but i dont know many rich ppl! Its all about knowing it all and how it was and what from then reflects on the parts now. Also speaking about auto parts business, as long as you stay away from Autozone ( which honestly needs to be destroyed! horrible company!) you should be good. I worked in autozone as a delivery driver september and october, and i had to quit. They treat customers like utter garbage, often sneaking in some sort of grease packets into their purchase without them asking for it! i mean what the! They focus a lot more on you tugging in your shirt or the way your name tag hangs or the color of your socks than the real stuff like helping people with cars, talking about various car parts and things of this matter. The commercial manager who was dispatching my devilries, was a total tool. I mean the guy sat all day in that desk waiting on calls and just buried in his cell phone if no calls were coming. He often made me do awful tasks such as cleaning bathrooms or buying the management lunch or drinks. I used to design and build people outdoor kitchens and grills at home depot, and now this? I still suffered through it and just did my job but then i got into a literal fight with the commercial manager when i called him a lazy sob for sitting at desk all day and telling me i don't make deliveries on time when i met each quota by 15-10 minutes before. Total idiot. He proceeded to threaten me that he will find where i live and his boys are going to wreck my car and spray paint my apt door... that was it for me. I called Autozones regional managers, HR's and even got to speak to bill rhodes. All of them 0 help and totally corporate brain washed. DO NOT BUY FROM AUTOZONE!

[Danno]

Edited November 7, 2013 by Danno

[Tom Geiger]

Ok, I've read this one from the beginning and here's a few thoughts.

While we all love our old cars with less than 20/20 hindsight, we must remember that cars of the 1950s-80s were designed and built to last through the warranty period. The cars we fondly remember were easy to work on, because we had to do so often. Rayco built a coast to coast empire of replacing shredded 5 year old car seat covers. Cars pretty much rusted out before the payments ended. I came of age in the mid 1970s and spent a lot of time with my buddies cutting out rust and slapping bondo on cars that were less than 10 years old. And 100,000 miles on a car was a badge of endurance and honor!

Safety? Go look up the video done by the insurance institute of a full size '59 Chevy doing a head on crash with a '99 Malibu. Guess who wins? Back in the old days we thought heavier was mightier. Today we do computerized simulations to develop smart crunch zones and place the air bags correctly to save lives. I love my '65 Barracuda dearly but would I put my daughter out there in today's traffic in it? Nope, she's really much safer in her smaller Fiat 500. Today we have cars on the market that literally won't allow you to rear end another car. It won't be long before these systems are standard.

Emissions? No contest. I learned the difference when we ran an older car in my garage and nearly killed ourselves, versus being able to warm up my Nissan Stanza without ill effects. And it's truly important if we expect to continue on this planet. We need to make up for 200 years of pollution stupidity.

The truth is that today's cars are 30 years ahead of our favorite cars in advancements. Better everything. The average car that goes over 200,000 miles isn't a big deal, but we're seeing 300,000 miles out of some rather mundane cars like Dodge Caravans and Toyota Corollas. Today's cars do cost more than the old cars, but they live 2-3 times longer. Guys will whine that they're harder to service, but the truth is we don't need to service them all that often. My Caravan has 183,000 and we got rid of a Plymouth Breeze with 190,000 on it last year. My remaining Breeze has 140,000 on it and still rides and looks like a 5 year old car. Nothing wrong with it, no rattles, nothing major ever replaced. No visible rust, not a tear in the interior or carpet. And that's what today's cars do. Reliable transportation for the masses.

Oh, we've had putz mechanics since the beginning of time so no fair plcking on the young 'uns. They still need to pay their dues.

It's cool to live in the romance of old cars, own one and build models of them. But nothing we say will change the fact that today's cars are better and safer. I do own a very cool old 1950s black and white tube TV, but I'm watching a 55" high def flat screen as I watch this. And nobody will argue that the 1950s tube is better.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Tom Geiger

[Nxr]

but the 50s tube might last longer than the flat screen.

[Rob Hall]

but the 50s tube might last longer than the flat screen

Boring. Who wants to live in the 50s with a grainy B&W tv? Old cars are neat to look at at weekend cars shows and events, but for the daily grind in the real world I'll stick w/ reliable modern cars w/ modern features and conveniences.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Rob Hall

[Nxr]

i know i know, havent said anything about it being cooler but the old tube tv's did last longer than the flats, my samsung 42 inch lcd died literally entirely one day after 2 years, one of the lamps in the back cracked and that was it.

[A.R.C.]

A real conversation In a large corporate parts store a few years ago. It was nearby and I figured it would be the easiest place to go to. I was wrong.

"Hi. I need a u joint for a 1970 Ford 9 inch rear end"

" What kind of vehicle is it?"

" Its a custom application, I just need a joint for a 9 inch"

" I need to know what type of vehicile it is sir or I cant search for the part"

" Its a 99 Jeep YJ"

" Four wheel drive?"

" Yes"

" What motor?"

Hmmmm, I think to myself. Do I tell him what used to be in it or really mess him up and tell hIm whats in it now?.........

" It`s a 401" , He started it

'Hmmm, I dont have a listing for a Jeep Yj wth a 401"

''I know. It orginally had a 4 cylinder, now its got a 401"

" Ahhh"

"I found the 4 cyl model but it doesn`t list it as having a Ford 9 inch rear"

"I know. Give me a rear U-joint for a 1970 Bronco"

" Hmmm, I dont have a listing for a Bronco that old"

" Thanks"

Dial the usual place I go to which is 10 minutes up the road and locally owned.

" Hey Wes, you have a u-joint for a nine inch"

"Yup"

" Cool, I`ll be there in 15"

" It`ll be on the counter"

[clovis]

Thought that chime in on this "new car gripe thread" and share that I am having transmission problems, but I truthfully don't think it is the transmission at all...

I think it is an electronic sensor on the engine., and could very well be a camshaft positioning sensor.

[David G.]

Here's a fun example of how the world has moved on.

Several years ago, I took my 1971 Delta 88 Town Sedan to a local car wash. The kind of car wash where attendants vacuum the car and drive it up to the washing unit, catch the car as it exits then pull it forward and dry it off.

As the big Olds rolled out of the other side of the washing unit, a young man jumped into it to move it into line for drying. I heard him turn the key and crank the starter. It cranked. It stopped. The engine didn't start. It cranked again and still no fire. After the third attempt, I could see that the young man was getting a little nervous. Just then, one of his older co-workers begins to walk over toward the big car and caught the younger man's attention. The older man begins making a flapping motion with his right hand as he's waving to the younger man or attempting to pat him on the head from a distance.

The younger man leans back a little in the seat a bit and looks around as he's searching for something on the floor then I hear the familiar click and squeak of the throttle linkage as he pushes the pedal twice. The starter then made half a crank and the engine rumbled to life.

I imagine he'd never driven a carbureted car.

One thing never fails though. Once they do get the car started, they almost always pop the gas pedal several times as they pull it forward- BlupBlupBlup Vrooom BlupBlupBlup Vroom Vroom BlupBlupBlup It's nice to know that some people still appreciate that ol' V-8 power sound.

David G.

[Tom Geiger]

I imagine he'd never driven a carbureted car.

I think it's funny how many people today have never driven a clutch! Most of us just take it for granted that everyone can.

But some of the comments in this thread could be from any era regarding progress. I'm sure there was a group of old guys in the 1960s snickering that the mechanics then couldn't fix a Model T.