Paint-How much is enough??

[TransAmMike]

I think when I paint a model, clearing also, I tend to go overboard with the coats.  

So guy's, how much is enough?   I seem to always think that next coat will be a little better than the last and often wind up messing it up or getting trash or bubbles in it.

So, really, how much is enough.....when do you draw the proverbial line???   ?

[Snake45]

It depends--on the paint, on the color, on whether I'm planning to polish it or not, whether I'm planning to clear it or not, the temperature, the humidity, phase of the moon, day of the week, etc. etc etc. Painting is as much an art as a science (maybe more so), and there's no substitute for experience. 

[Plowboy]

With Tamiya, I do three coats of color and three coats of clear on solid colors. Metallics, I'll typically do two of color and four of clear. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

34 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

It depends--on the paint, on the color, on whether I'm planning to polish it or not, whether I'm planning to clear it or not, the temperature, the humidity, phase of the moon, day of the week, etc. etc etc. Painting is as much an art as a science (maybe more so), and there's no substitute for experience. 

I agree.

There’s really no set formula given all of the variables possible.

I use a lot of primer because I want to ensure a good impenetrable barrier to the automotive lacquer that I use.

I use just enough color to get a good even distribution and acceptable depth, but even that usually equates to four or five coats.

Finally, I generally use about 5 coats of clear to ensure sufficient thickness for polishing eliminating the fear of polishing through to the paint.

That’s probably enough to be considered “overkill” by a lot of modelers, but it’s a regimen that I’ve developed over the years that has since treated me very well with an extremely low rate of having to strip and repaint, which makes it well worth it in my eyes.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. ?

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

5 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

So, really, how much is enough.....when do you draw the proverbial line???

This question sounds like something the Plum Crazy David guy would ask.

And the answer is (which would be to the dismay to the Plum Crazy guy) . . . it depends. I don't have a fixed formula.  There is no fixed formula. Every paint job is different.  You need to learn for yourself what painting technique to use, and when to stop.

How thinned out is the paint? How heavy of a coat do you spray?  Those are the two main variables.  I like to apply as heavy, and as few coats as I can.  That way I minimize both, the orange peel, and the excessive paint thickens.

I see so many models which have spotless mirror like finish, because they have a clear coat so heavy they look like they were dipped in honey, then polished to death.  Sorry, that is not for me.  I go for more natural looks.  Just like with women -- I prefer the natural look (maybe with very,very minimal makeup augmentation) than the ones using crusty foundation, heavily shaded cheek bones, shiny ruby red lipstick, dark eye makeup, painted-on eyebrows, and 1" long eyelashes. I'll take a Mary-Ann any day! 

[SfanGoch]

I prefer multiple thin coats to single heavy layers. This minimizes the possibility of obscuring details.

Psst, Pete........Say howdy to Lena the Hyena from Lower Slobbovia....hubba-hubba! AH-OO!

[Dave G.]

No comment as to the question directly for now, too many variables from paint type to clear or no clear coat ( I don't get the propensity or urge to have to clear coat everything personally) .

Edited November 6, 2021 by Dave G.

[MrObsessive]

I'll echo what everyone else is saying. There are waaaay, waaaay too many variables in what happens with any one given paint job. Everything from paint type, color, subject prep (paint does NOT hide shoddy prep).......I could go on. As Snake said, experience is the best teacher and that reinforces why one should perhaps test out their paint before putting it on a pet project.

I will say that I'm a big believer in clear coating metallic paints with maybe very few exceptions. It's been my case where I did try to rub out a metallic paint job, and the paint while smooth, the metallic flakes ended up looking "swirly" and "mottled".

[MrObsessive]

4 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

Psst, Pete........Say howdy to Lena the Hyena from Lower Slobbovia....hubba-hubba! AH-OO!

????

[Zippi]

I have been testing different paints and processes from all the info I've received and the videos I've watched on the interweb for the past 6+ months.  I have a process which is two light coats and two wet coats.  Even though it seems to be working ok for now it does seem to change each time I get the airbrush out.  Sometime I get more orange peel than I would like and sometimes it's very light.  It gets me to scratching my head every time I get ready to spray a body not knowing what the outcome might be.  I'm still working on it.  I seem to do better on the darker colors when spraying the lacquer clear on as I can see it going on and regulate it.   

[peteski]

9 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

I prefer multiple thin coats to single heavy layers. This minimizes the possibility of obscuring details.

Psst, Pete........Say howdy to Lena the Hyena from Lower Slobbovia....hubba-hubba! AH-OO!

Now, she's a beaut!  One of those  "coyote dates" 

[NOBLNG]

This is a couple coats too many!?

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by NOBLNG

[4mula1fan]

Yech! That should get you banned! Lol!!

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

I will say that I'm a big believer in clear coating metallic paints with maybe very few exceptions. It's been my case where I did try to rub out a metallic paint job, and the paint while smooth, the metallic flakes ended up looking "swirly" and "mottled"

Agree completely.

I wouldn't even consider trying to polish a metallic paint job without clear coating anymore.

Been burned a couple of times, and that's enough.

 

 

 

Steve

[SfanGoch]

12 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

This is a couple coats too many!?

Cindy Adams, like the coelacanth, is considered a living fossil. Only in New York, kids....

[SfanGoch]

1 minute ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I wouldn't even consider trying to polish a metallic paint job without clear coating anymore.

Depends on the paint and how long it was allowed to cure. Years ago, I rattlecanned a Revell '67 Chevelle with MM Arctic Blue Metallic and put it aside for about a year. I later pulled it out and the paint was rock hard and glossy. I used Novus 2 to i,prove the finish and I didn't have any problems with the flakes swirling.

[TransAmMike]

My intention when I started this thread was (and is) to get more entertainment value out of it than anything else and so far it hasn't failed.  

A mention about my current paint job (as described in my current WIP Turbo Coupe).  Createx Autoborne black sealer, Createx Airbrush Opaque black topcoat. First time I used the Autoborne and I was very impressed. It covered quickly and super smooth with just a few coats. The topcoat went on just as smooth as the sealer. I have been using the Rusto Crystal Clear over Createx and even after drying time of the topcoat in excess of a few days the paint checked. So, no way was I gonna gamble with the same results and since the only other clear product I have on hand is a bottle of the original Future (not the new Pledge stuff). It's been a really long time since I last used this stuff.  I sprayed a couple light coats then started laying it on a bit. Between heavier coats after a few minutes of drying time I hit it with the hair dryer on medium speed, cool temp.  The shine is awesome, but like "Peteski" mentioned, it does kinda looks like it's been "dripped in honey" which of course, a factory paint job would not look like.   

My take on this is, different paints have different requirements and the process if more of an individual choice than anything else.  I guess you can say,  it's whatever works for you!!

And if anyone can give me some advise in finishing off the Future please chime in.

 

 

[Snake45]

2 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

Depends on the paint and how long it was allowed to cure. Years ago, I rattlecanned a Revell '67 Chevelle with MM Arctic Blue Metallic and put it aside for about a year. I later pulled it out and the paint was rock hard and glossy. I used Novus 2 to i,prove the finish and I didn't have any problems with the flakes swirling.

MM Arctic Blue is one a VERY few metallic paints I've found that can be polished directly (without clearcoating). For some reason, it just works. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

Depends on the paint and how long it was allowed to cure. Years ago, I rattlecanned a Revell '67 Chevelle with MM Arctic Blue Metallic and put it aside for about a year. I later pulled it out and the paint was rock hard and glossy. I used Novus 2 to i,prove the finish and I didn't have any problems with the flakes swirling.

No doubt, but I'm just thinking along the lines of the paint that I use.

All acrylic base coat lacquers, most with very small metallic particles.

That stuff will "smear" when sanded like there's no tomorrow.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited November 6, 2021 by StevenGuthmiller

[youpey]

I am by no means a pro, but i started a new routine and I have gotten much better results. 

 

I clean the mold lines, etc. Instead of sanding the body use 3m ultra fine pads (link at bottom) with a tiny amount of polishing compound.

 

I wash the body very thoroughly with dawn dish soap. I mean i really soap it up and wash it for a while to make sure there is no compound left on the body.

I let it dry over night, or if im in a rush i will fast dry it with an empty airbrush. I prefer the slow method as 1 drop of water will ruin the pain job.

 

Then i do 1 thin coat of tamiya primer and let it sit for maybe 20 minutes or so

Then i do a very, very thin layer of paint. It doesn't matter if its fully covering every spot. After a couple of minutes, maybe five, i will do another very thin coat, but this time i make sure i get covered over every thing. I let that dry for 5 or so minutes. Then i do a thicker paint coat, where it looks  glossy. There is a very fine line between the right amount and running the paint.

 

I let this dry for about 30 minutes or 1 hour.

 

Then i do 1 coat of clear. Not thin, but not thick either. let it dry completely,  usually i wont touch it for overnight 

 

Then i polish with tamiya 3 stages of compound with a microfiber cloth.  There is an ultrafine compound that i got by micro mesh. Its so much smoother than tamiya final.

 

If there is any dust or cat hair i will sand it out and try to respray the area. Not just the spot, but that whole side. If its on the thick coat, its much harder to get perfect without too much paint. 

 

 

Scotch pad

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HSCNVM2?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

Final polishing compound. I was able to find just the compound, i didnt get this whole set

https://micro-surface.com/product/hobby-kit/

[carbuilder1950]

I agree with everything said here because like many said here, there are so many variables. What kind of paint are you using? What brand of paint are you using? Will you be using a clear coat, and most importantly for me, do you have a simple repeatable formula for the basics that you can use to work from. Like 3 coats of color starting with a light coat, then a medium coat and then a wet coat. Which in most every case depends on the car you are painting and the details it has that you don't want to bury in paint.

Every paint job will have it's challenges, so there's times when trying out your painting technique on a spare body or scrap of plastic will come in handy.

As many have said here, painting is part skill, art, and science. So practice, practice, practice, is my motto. Once you have a basic painting formula your comfortable using, then you'll start finding the freedom to experiment with other styles of paint like urethane auto paints, like House of Color paints candies and flakes and pearls, not to mention how you prepare your car for a paint job and the primer you use.

It's all part of a personal process that can take most of us years to work out to our satisfaction.

I like this one especially.

Edited November 6, 2021 by carbuilder1950

[TransAmMike]

Realy like that job on the Edsel David , looks like a pearl white.  You use what I call high end paint and I'm sure a lot more guys' do also. I'm just a cheapskate acrylic paint user. Most expensive I use is the Createx. I just wonder  really how much of a difference it makes  with inexpensive (note I didn't say cheap?) versus pricy stuff.  Me, I think it just comes down to the process.

[carbuilder1950]

24 minutes ago, TransAmMike said:

Realy like that job on the Edsel David , looks like a pearl white.  You use what I call high end paint and I'm sure a lot more guys' do also. I'm just a cheapskate acrylic paint user. Most expensive I use is the Createx. I just wonder  really how much of a difference it makes  with inexpensive (note I didn't say cheap?) versus pricy stuff.  Me, I think it just comes down to the process.

You know @TransAmMike my friend,

It all depends on what makes you satisfied and happy with how you enjoy the hobby. Sometimes I use really inexpensive paints myself, like Krylon spray enamels, because I love the color, and I have learned over time how to use a lacquer clear coat over it, and get the final finish I want.

Some of my models I share here, have very inexpensive rattle can paint jobs, but because I have spent years practicing painting and knowing the chemical make up of paints, the conditions I should paint in, and what to use for that final polishing, and when to do it, they usually come out pretty fair, but don't forget, it took me years to make my paintings look simple.

Dave

[TransAmMike]

1 hour ago, carbuilder1950 said:

You know @TransAmMike my friend,

It all depends on what makes you satisfied and happy with how you enjoy the hobby. Sometimes I use really inexpensive paints myself, like Krylon spray enamels, because I love the color, and I have learned over time how to use a lacquer clear coat over it, and get the final finish I want.

Some of my models I share here, have very inexpensive rattle can paint jobs, but because I have spent years practicing painting and knowing the chemical make up of paints, the conditions I should paint in, and what to use for that final polishing, and when to do it, they usually come out pretty fair, but don't forget, it took me years to make my paintings look simple.

Dave

Well David, I started with rattle cans and got some pretty good results and without clear. I decided I wanted to try airbrushing. Started with model car enamels, really only Testors, and I struggled to get acceptable results. Used the Badger 200 and just could not get it to work right. Also, just did not like having to use thinner for clean-up. Just too messy and smelly for me. So I tried craft paint after watching a lot of  Dr.Cranky's videos. I still had problems with the Badger but I was able to at least get some decent results. After buying the Mr. Hobby Proton trigger brush my results with the acrylics have definately been better. Love the brush by the way.  I stepped up to Createx for the pearl effects and I'm determined for it to be my go-too paint.

Now, the clearing is still an issue. I discovered the Rust Crystal Clear Acrylic Lacquer and like it but recently I'm having a checking issue even tho it's the same Createx I've been using. Other than Future, it's the only other clear I have ever used. 

[carbuilder1950]

1 hour ago, TransAmMike said:

Well David, I started with rattle cans and got some pretty good results and without clear. I decided I wanted to try airbrushing. Started with model car enamels, really only Testors, and I struggled to get acceptable results. Used the Badger 200 and just could not get it to work right. Also, just did not like having to use thinner for clean-up. Just too messy and smelly for me. So I tried craft paint after watching a lot of  Dr.Cranky's videos. I still had problems with the Badger but I was able to at least get some decent results. After buying the Mr. Hobby Proton trigger brush my results with the acrylics have definately been better. Love the brush by the way.  I stepped up to Createx for the pearl effects and I'm determined for it to be my go-too paint.

Now, the clearing is still an issue. I discovered the Rust Crystal Clear Acrylic Lacquer and like it but recently I'm having a checking issue even tho it's the same Createx I've been using. Other than Future, it's the only other clear I have ever used. 

@TransAmMike

Yeah, that's one of the love/hate parts of model building, is those times we continue to struggle until we finally get things right.

I haven't stripped a bad paint job of mine for a long time, but it took me an equally long time to get there.

Painting is definetly not plug -n-play, but I love the challenge presented to get it right, by everything done in the past brought to mind, and checking to see if I have done everything my best again, before I begin - And then I just go for it full steam ahead with no doubts, because I prayed first - ALWAYS.