Avoid the reissue Revell Ramcharger

[Snake45]

There's a slight possible flaw in the heat-during-transport theory. 

"Styrene" has a T_g, or "glass transition temperature" (where it starts to flow and deform permanently) of right around 100 C, which is 212 F. That's boiling water.

It's doubtful temps inside containers ever reach much over 160-170 F, so there's still significant margin for safety...unless something is physically squashing the boxes, and that's not being reported.

It's more likely that the parts are being pulled from the molds before they're adequately cooled, which has also been suggested.

Pulling parts from molds early is either 1) sloppy procedural controls in place or 2) trying to cycle the molds a little faster to squeeze a few more rice-grains of profit out.

Agree completely. I've had kits stored in the trunk of a car (a steel box) for several years, with summers over 100*F and sitting right in the sun, with NO warpage or damage of any kind. Now, inside the passenger compartment, where sunlight streams in directly through the glass, things can get considerably hotter, as we all know (it's a rare modeler who doesn't have a sad "melted on the dashboard/package tray" story). But in a windowless steel box, I doubt that there's anywhere on the planet where the sun could get the inner air temperature anywhere NEAR 200*F. Or even 180, for that matter.

Premature demolding is almost certainly the culprit in these cases. (Bodies crushed or broken in packaging/shipping are usually pretty obvious.)

[MrObsessive]

Could be right, I tried to see if I could slightly bend the body back a little straighter on the replacement and it only moved slightly before the polystyrene cracked. It wasnt like the usual break either it was like a saltine.

That seldom works on cold plastic.........you'd need to heat it up to make it more pliable. Frankly, I wouldn't have bothered because the body is warped in more than a couple places. That certainly looks like it was put in the box too soon, and the contents surrounding and squishing the body as it cooled, made it take on its current "shape".

Even you were to heat up one spot that might have been slightly warped, you'd have to keep in mind that plastic has a "memory" so if you applied hot water for instance to wash the body, guess what??

The body would go right back to what it was, as its memory in the plastic is still intact. I've had resin even do this, so I have to keep in mind to wash everything in cold or at least very lukewarm water if there's any straightening I have to do beforehand.

[Fat Brian]

I have to agree  with Matt about the container issue, I accidentally left a kit on the package shelf of my car for a few weeks during the summer and when I finally got back to it the kit was a ruined mess. A container of model kits probably weighs a lot less than a lot of the other things being sent over so it's more likely to end up higher on the ship or toward the outside where it could end up cooking in the sun.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I have to agree  with Matt about the container issue, I accidentally left a kit on the package shelf of my car for a few weeks during the summer and when I finally got back to it the kit was a ruined mess. A container of model kits probably weighs a lot less than a lot of the other things being sent over so it's more likely to end up higher on the ship or toward the outside where it could end up cooking in the sun.

A car interior with clear windows can act much like a solar oven, trapping infrared. Still, average car interior temps in the sun on a 100 F day with windows closed are in the neighborhood of 170 F.  This is well below the glass-transition temperature of styrene...which is why some interior parts don't warp and melt also.

I've had models warped while sitting on a vehicle package tray too, because the window glass itself may have a lensing effect as the sun moves relative to the car, much like using a magnifying glass to ignite a piece of paper on a sunny day.

This study of the temperatures in a typical brown shipping container over 24 hours shows the peak temperature to have reached only a little over 50 C, or 122 F, in the vicinity of the top, in bright sunlight...again, WELL BELOW the temperature at which the polystyrene that kits are manufactured from will deform permanently.

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Fat Brian]

We've all straightened bodies under hot running water and most household water heaters are set at 120° so even that lower temp can have some softening effect. Multiply that by several hours a day for a couple of weeks for the average Pacific crossing plus the pressure from a tightly packed box and I'm sure there will be some warping. 

[kurth]

After reading this thread, I decided to open the bag on the kit I got from tower hobbies as soon as it was available. Sadly mine is warped as well. It has a bit of a twist and a squished roof.  What a shame, it was a kit I have been waiting for for a long time. I requested a new body from revell and indicated in the comments to please verify it is straight.  

 

I am sure Revell will make it right. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

We've all straightened bodies under hot running water and most household water heaters are set at 120° so even that lower temp can have some softening effect. Multiply that by several hours a day for a couple of weeks for the average Pacific crossing plus the pressure from a tightly packed box and I'm sure there will be some warping. 

Believe whatever you want.

In my own experience straightening styrene bodies under running water (and I've straightened a lot) if the water is of a temperature human hands can stand for a prolonged time, I've ALWAYS had to warp the part in question well beyond where I wanted it to end up. This means putting significant mechanical stress into the plastic, as well as heating it, to warp it farther than desired so when it springs back, it will be in about the right place...IF the temperature is significantly less than the material's T_{g ,}which is about that of boiling water. 212 F. 100 C.

There is simply NO significant mechanical stress inside a normally-packed model car box to cause permanent deformation at relatively low temperatures.

And these boxes are NOT showing any signs of having been crushed.

Yes, styrene will "cold flow" somewhat if it's in a crushed box for a long time with stuff on top of it warping it into a new shape...and this is usually why WE have to straighten things under hot water. Polyester and epoxy fiberglass parts will cold-flow too...and usually will go back to their original shapes again with low heat and significant mechanical stress put into them to help them return to as-made.

But seeing the roofs caved in somewhat (not just a little deformation of windshield posts), some of these things are looking like 40-year old acetate promos. That won't happen with any kind of decent quality styrene unless it's pretty damm close to its T_g.

Again, this would indicate that the parts are being pulled from the tooling before they've cooled sufficiently to be stable. Model car parts will never encounter temps close to T_g otherwise, unless somebody is using boiling water to try to straighten them.

EDIT: There IS, of course, the possibility that the quality of the "styrene" used for these things is of a composition that gives it a significantly lower T_g.

We all know that many of the recent plastics are far softer and less solvent-resistant than in earlier times, so plastic formulation IS different...and it's probably not done in an attempt to RAISE quality. But without actual testing of the material in question at the temperatures and duration experienced by container-shipped kits, it's all pure speculation.

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

We've all straightened bodies under hot running water and most household water heaters are set at 120° so even that lower temp can have some softening effect. Multiply that by several hours a day for a couple of weeks for the average Pacific crossing plus the pressure from a tightly packed box and I'm sure there will be some warping.

Uh....no.

The warped bodies I experienced in the early '90s were molded in America, or at worst Mexico. They never spent a minute in a steel shipping container under the Pacific sun.

These warped parts were simply removed from the molds too soon, before they'd cooled and stabilized. Why is this concept so difficult to grasp?

Edited September 2, 2016 by Snake45

[Ace-Garageguy]

I am sure Revell will make it right. 

I'm sure they will. They have a good reputation in that regard. And after they've sent out a few hundred or thousand replacements, they'll rectify whatever the cause is too.

[iamsuperdan]

Uh....no.

The warped bodies I experienced in the early '90s were molded in America, or at worst Mexico. They never spent a minute in a steel shipping container under the Pacific sun.

 

Although my Ramcharger is fine, I've had a few warped parts on other kits. Always from domestic brands. I purchase far more kits from Asian brands, and have never had a quality issue of any kind. I don't buy in to the shipping warpage theory at all. It's just sloppy production, which is an easy fix...if a manufacturer wants to fix it that is.

[midwestmodeler]

After reading this thread, I decided to open the bag on the kit I got from tower hobbies as soon as it was available. Sadly mine is warped as well. It has a bit of a twist and a squished roof.  What a shame, it was a kit I have been waiting for for a long time. I requested a new body from revell and indicated in the comments to please verify it is straight.  

 

I am sure Revell will make it right. 

Bummer you had the same problem. I just ended up returning the 2nd kit and will either wait a while to pick up a kit or try a different store. Just arent any other options in my town so it might be a while till I get somewhere

[1972coronet]

I clearly recllthat the Monogram 1986 Monte Carlo SS was the kit which suffered from pulled-too-soon-from-the-mould warpage. That was when the kits were still 100% US made .

[Tom Geiger]

The boxes aren't crushed and there don't appear to be any stresses on the body in the box.  So that means something is wrong in the manufacturing process.  Could they be injecting stryene into the mold too quickly?   Running too fast and ejecting the body from the mold too quickly, before it's cooled enough?  I'd be looking in this area for answers.

[Cliff Dagger]

Cant blame this one on the Chinese , this kit is made in USA, just the tires one from China ,it's also the first kit to have the " West Chicago " sticker , at least the first I've seen . 

So it could be a brand new factory , they may not know when to pull them out ?

the plastic feels the same as the rest of the America kits theve made the last few years , the 77 Chevy van , 77 GMC wrecker , and the 80 Ford Bronco , the Chinese plastic is a lot softer and more " milky "

looking , I bought mine from HL and the body is straight but my roof has a little dip in it .

 

[Joe Handley]

West Chicago?!  Do you know where?  There's a plastic molding facility next street over from where my TruGreen branch office is at!

[mikemodeler]

Checked my two kits today, one was so badly warped it was hard to tell it was a Ramcharger. Sent an email to Revell asking for a replacement body, first time I have had to do that.

I did notice both had a sticker with what appeared to be a date stamp and had "West Chicago, IL" on it.

I also noticed there was some heavy sprue tabs on the bottom edge of the body. If that is a new trend for Revell, then I will probably not be buying much from them in the future.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Cant blame this one on the Chinese , this kit is made in USA, just the tires one from China ,it's also the first kit to have the " West Chicago " sticker , at least the first I've seen . 

 

 

Checked my two kits today, one was so badly warped it was hard to tell it was a Ramcharger. Sent an email to Revell asking for a replacement body, first time I have had to do that.

I did notice both had a sticker with what appeared to be a date stamp and had "West Chicago, IL" on it.

Hmmmmm....so, at this point, it's beginning to look like we can pretty well write off the "getting too hot in the shipping containers" theory entirely. Not just based on the physical evidence and the science of heat-distortion of styrene, but because the kits never went IN shipping containers.  

Looks like a job for the Revell QA police. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Joe Handley]

Yeah, it got pretty miserable here, but I don't know if it got that hot..................although there were times my 200 did feel it was!

[niteowl7710]

My...well everything in the kit has a slight tweak to it, but nothing that's requiring a replacement part prior to actually test fitting things like the tailgate in place.

As for being molded in W. Chicago,  I imagine there's certain tooling that never got shipped to China in the first place, especially the old Monogram stuff.  Much like the Round2 stuff that has been run in Michigan. 

Makes you wonder if the place that's running the kits isn't used to either more resilient plastic, or manufacturing that doesn't require as much "precision" in terms of warping.

[midwestmodeler]

Both the kits I had were chicago. made on 6/23/16

[Joe Handley]

Both the kits I had were chicago. made on 6/23/16

Sorry about sounding nit-picky, but if they were molded in West Chicago, we're a whole different place than the West Side of Chicago.

[JTalmage]

Just checked mine too.... it's warped. Bummer

[Xingu]

The ones I have are stamped Champaign, Il

[Daddyfink]

Meanwhile, in West Chicago...

"That fresh batch of Ramchargers is almost ready to ship, Captain!"

[charlie8575]

Could be right, I tried to see if I could slightly bend the body back a little straighter on the replacement and it only moved slightly before the polystyrene cracked. It wasnt like the usual break either it was like a saltine. Just sucks because trucks are kind of my thing and the only people putting out trucks right now is revell. First time I have ever had a problem like this

When addressing this, it might be wise to spring a few bucks and mail the bodies both back to Revell-O-Gram. This way, they can actually see what's up.

I would suggest putting the package to the attention of both the Quality Assurance and Customer Service departments so they can both review the product.

Charlie Larkin