wire wheels???

[Steven W Zimmerman]

On 12/2/2017 at 2:35 PM, Mark said:

If it's the guy I'm thinking of, I had PE stuff done by him also back when I was doing conversion parts.  When I contacted him originally, I believe he mentioned R&M as being among his clients.  (This was about 30 years ago; of course R&M may have switched sources between then and now.)  I don't know Norm (R&M) personally, but on the surface it appears he does the castings but others do the PE and creating some of the masters for the parts.  The guy doing the PE (if it's that guy) pretty much did stuff only for model kit aftermarket parts guys (military, cars, whatever).  Of course, many other companies do photoetch, but it's not easy to find one willing to do the hobby items.  They'd rather do production stuff that they can run off in far bigger numbers than the things that interest us. 

Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z'

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

27 minutes ago, Steven W Zimmerman said:

Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z'

 

So...lets do some rough numbers.

Assume a 2"x 2" fret can hold four 17"-19" wire wheel centers in 1/25 scale. That's one set for a dragster front.

A 2' X 2' sheet pf PE can deliver 144   2" X 2" frets of wheels. At $16 each, which I'd happily pay, and which is in line with the cost of a similar sized fret of PE parts, that's a gross return of $2304.

A 3' X 3' sheet can hold 324 similarly sized frets. Again, at $16 per, that's a gross return of $5184.

 

[Mark]

3 hours ago, Steven W Zimmerman said:

Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z'

 

Thank you for agreeing with me.  I had some stuff done a long time ago...the guy doing mine wasn't working with sheets that big.  I don't remember how big it was, probably around one square foot or so, and one sheet at a time.  The main item I had done fit 100 sets on that one sheet, and I had to sell nearly a quarter of the sheet before I was anywhere near a profit.  The point I'm driving at is that the hardest part of the deal will be finding someone willing to work in the (small by production standards) quantity we're talking about.  Not many companies will want this business, and those who have found someone might not share that information... 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

Thank you for agreeing with me.  I had some stuff done a long time ago...the guy doing mine wasn't working with sheets that big.  I don't remember how big it was, probably around one square foot or so, and one sheet at a time.  The main item I had done fit 100 sets on that one sheet, and I had to sell nearly a quarter of the sheet before I was anywhere near a profit.  The point I'm driving at is that the hardest part of the deal will be finding someone willing to work in the (small by production standards) quantity we're talking about.  Not many companies will want this business, and those who have found someone might not share that information... 

Which is why, exactly, I was intending to approach existing sellers of PE parts and make them an offer too good to refuse, with ME taking the financial risk, to allow them to add wire centers to their existing product line with virtually NO risk to them...not trying to snake their suppliers.

However, the vast majority of what I'm hearing is why it can't be done.

EDIT: I just emailed MCG. We'll see what they say.

"There's been some interest shown in finding a source for 1/25 motorcycle wire wheel centers for vintage dragsters (and possibly machined aluminum rims) on some of the modeling forums. I'm in a position to help some company that already makes high-quality PE parts (as you do) to expand their product line for zero risk to the company. Please contact me if this is something you would consider discussing. Thanks, WE"

Edited December 12, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[aurfalien]

Hi,

Well in an effort to help, I've emailed a company named Royal Models regarding dimensions as they've a 1/35 WW2 era bicycle;

http://www.royalmodel.eu/en/afv-microdetails-set/347-german-bicycle-wwii-135.html?search_query=bicycle&results=1

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

11 minutes ago, aurfalien said:

Hi,

Well in an effort to help, I've emailed a company named Royal Models regarding dimensions as they've a 1/35 WW2 era bicycle;

Good man. Worst they can say is "no".   

[aurfalien]

9 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Good man. Worst they can say is "no".   

Hi and thank you sir.

I also emailed Master Box as they seem to have a WW2 bicycle that's a bit better, I found out about it here;

http://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/german-military-bicycle-wwii-era

 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by aurfalien

[peteski]

On 12/12/2017 at 9:12 AM, Steven W Zimmerman said:

Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z'

 

It is nowhere near that bad.  I also am into model railroad hobby and we photoetch detail parts or kits often. Even for one-off it is not that bad.  Check out https://ppdltd.com/ that is who most use. The prices are there. If you provide etch-ready artwork you save bunch of money too. I have few projects planned - just haven't gotten to them yet.  And normally you don't etch such large sheets. You design much smaller items then just run multiples.  Basically like the MCG frets - those are just a single artwork etched in multiples.

 

Heck, I have couple of unassembled sets of RMCoM dragster wheels - If I can find the time I can scan the original etchings (for size reference), redraw them in Corel Draw and create etch-ready artwork and have them made. Like I said, I just have to find some time for that. Also before I do that I would have to talk to Norm to see if he would restart the production of the resin parts and buy my etchings to make the sets complete.

Edited December 14, 2017 by peteski

[peekay]

Last year I bought some very nice Ixo 1.24th motorbikes, including this Honda Gold Wing. I dropped the Honda on the floor (as you do) and it disassembled itself, freeing the front wheel. I'd only paid $14 with postage so I ordered another one, the bike in the 2nd pic.

It then occurred to me that these wheels would look better on my Revell Outlaw than the kit items. Unfortunately, the back wheel is different, as it is on the prototype. But if I ever get round to building the Outlaw I will drop the 2nd Honda on the floor and have a matching pair!

(The Ebbro box has nothing to do with this and the Chevy is there to show scale. And no, I'm not really suggesting this as a sensible solution.)

Hosted on Fotki

Hosted on Fotki

Edited December 14, 2017 by peekay

[Ace-Garageguy]

9 minutes ago, peekay said:

...But if I ever get round to building the Outlaw I will drop the 2nd Honda on the floor and have a matching pair!

[aurfalien]

Hi,

Unsure if this will fit the bill but Detail Master makes some wonderful PE spoke wheels.

There 40 spoke has an O.D. of 14.5mm.

You can find there wheel inserts here;

http://www.detailmaster.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=e9a357b41d8f0a32801ed9454902676a&Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=detailmaster&Category_Code=PEWD

They have there 72 spoke version here which is not in there wheel insert section;

http://www.detailmaster.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=e9a357b41d8f0a32801ed9454902676a&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=detailmaster&Product_Code=DM-3170&Category_Code=DM-PhotoEtchedParts

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

11 hours ago, aurfalien said:

Unsure if this will fit the bill but Detail Master makes some wonderful PE spoke wheels.

There 40 spoke has an O.D. of 14.5mm.

That's a 14.5 inch diameter in 1/25 scale...useless for dragster wire fronts, which were motorcycle front wires, typically in the 17" to 19" range.

Herb Deeks also makes some nice 15" conversion centers, but NO LONGER makes the larger ones (to the best of my knowledge).

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 12/14/2017 at 12:21 AM, peteski said:

It is nowhere near that bad.  I also am into model railroad hobby and we photoetch detail parts or kits often. Even for one-off it is not that bad.  Check out https://ppdltd.com/ that is who most use. The prices are there. If you provide etch-ready artwork you save bunch of money too.

This is the single most useful post in this entire thread. I'll be following up.

[Matt Bacon]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

This is the single most useful post in this entire thread. I'll be following up.

Agreed! And they're in Scotland, so very easy for me to deal with. I just wish now I'd scanned that Tomy etched fret for the SS100 so I could scale it up!

I think there might be one in the Hi-Tech Airfix E-Type that I have in the stash... Healey and Cobra wire wheels (for example) need to be quite densely spoked.

best,

M.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Matt Bacon

[Force]

Interesting thread.
If someone does good looking front wire wheels for dragsters I'm in for some sets.

[250 Testa Rossa]

On 11/27/2017 at 12:50 PM, curt raitz said:

Brad...the guy who did is photo-etch stuff passed away...so Norm will only have leftover photo-etch stock for sale. 

Harold Bradford?

[curt raitz]

9 hours ago, 250 Testa Rossa said:

Harold Bradford?

Sorry, but Norm did not tell me who did his photo-etch...

[peteski]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:30 AM, Ace-Garageguy said:

This is the single most useful post in this entire thread. I'll be following up.

 

On 12/15/2017 at 5:47 PM, Matt Bacon said:

Agreed! And they're in Scotland, so very easy for me to deal with. I just wish now I'd scanned that Tomy etched fret for the SS100 so I could scale it up!

I think there might be one in the Hi-Tech Airfix E-Type that I have in the stash... Healey and Cobra wire wheels (for example) need to be quite densely spoked.

best,

M.

You're very welcome guys. As long as you can produce an etch-ready artwork the price is quite affordable.

I'll get in touch with Norm from RMCoM probably after the holidays and see if he is interested in restarting the production of his motorcycle wheels if I can supply him with the etchings.

[gasser59]

Again, I can and would be thrilled to make the vector based, etch-ready artwork for the spokes. Sounds like there's plenty of interest in a quality set of these. I'm in.

[peteski]

I'll try to contact Norm to see if he is interested (it has been a busy holiday season). I have no problem doing the photomask artwork in Corel Draw (vector-based).

[aurfalien]

Hi,

I just got word back from Master Box, there 1/35 WW2 bicycle wheels are 20mm in diameter.

[crazyjim]

I just read this entire post/thread/whatever it's called, and found it very interesting. I have no input other than that and will be interested in seeing the results of others efforts.

[TimKustom]

Here's what I know about Replica's & Miniatures wheels...

I worked with Norm last year to retool the photoetch portion for all three sizes. We did test shots and they came out pretty nice. He's so backed up with existing orders that this has fell off his plate. Last we spoke he was trying to get back to them early this year. Give him a call, leave a message saying you want them is the best thing to do if you want to see them back in the catalog.

 

[peteski]

That's a great news!  The new etchings look a lot better than the original ones!  Nice Job Tim!

[Greg Myers]

Still seems strange there are none the Scale Aircraft crowd uses that would work