Steven W Zimmerman Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 On 12/2/2017 at 2:35 PM, Mark said: If it's the guy I'm thinking of, I had PE stuff done by him also back when I was doing conversion parts. When I contacted him originally, I believe he mentioned R&M as being among his clients. (This was about 30 years ago; of course R&M may have switched sources between then and now.) I don't know Norm (R&M) personally, but on the surface it appears he does the castings but others do the PE and creating some of the masters for the parts. The guy doing the PE (if it's that guy) pretty much did stuff only for model kit aftermarket parts guys (military, cars, whatever). Of course, many other companies do photoetch, but it's not easy to find one willing to do the hobby items. They'd rather do production stuff that they can run off in far bigger numbers than the things that interest us. Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, Steven W Zimmerman said: Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z' So...lets do some rough numbers. Assume a 2"x 2" fret can hold four 17"-19" wire wheel centers in 1/25 scale. That's one set for a dragster front. A 2' X 2' sheet pf PE can deliver 144 2" X 2" frets of wheels. At $16 each, which I'd happily pay, and which is in line with the cost of a similar sized fret of PE parts, that's a gross return of $2304. A 3' X 3' sheet can hold 324 similarly sized frets. Again, at $16 per, that's a gross return of $5184. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Steven W Zimmerman said: Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z' Thank you for agreeing with me. I had some stuff done a long time ago...the guy doing mine wasn't working with sheets that big. I don't remember how big it was, probably around one square foot or so, and one sheet at a time. The main item I had done fit 100 sets on that one sheet, and I had to sell nearly a quarter of the sheet before I was anywhere near a profit. The point I'm driving at is that the hardest part of the deal will be finding someone willing to work in the (small by production standards) quantity we're talking about. Not many companies will want this business, and those who have found someone might not share that information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mark said: Thank you for agreeing with me. I had some stuff done a long time ago...the guy doing mine wasn't working with sheets that big. I don't remember how big it was, probably around one square foot or so, and one sheet at a time. The main item I had done fit 100 sets on that one sheet, and I had to sell nearly a quarter of the sheet before I was anywhere near a profit. The point I'm driving at is that the hardest part of the deal will be finding someone willing to work in the (small by production standards) quantity we're talking about. Not many companies will want this business, and those who have found someone might not share that information... Which is why, exactly, I was intending to approach existing sellers of PE parts and make them an offer too good to refuse, with ME taking the financial risk, to allow them to add wire centers to their existing product line with virtually NO risk to them...not trying to snake their suppliers. However, the vast majority of what I'm hearing is why it can't be done. EDIT: I just emailed MCG. We'll see what they say. "There's been some interest shown in finding a source for 1/25 motorcycle wire wheel centers for vintage dragsters (and possibly machined aluminum rims) on some of the modeling forums. I'm in a position to help some company that already makes high-quality PE parts (as you do) to expand their product line for zero risk to the company. Please contact me if this is something you would consider discussing. Thanks, WE" Edited December 12, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurfalien Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hi, Well in an effort to help, I've emailed a company named Royal Models regarding dimensions as they've a 1/35 WW2 era bicycle; http://www.royalmodel.eu/en/afv-microdetails-set/347-german-bicycle-wwii-135.html?search_query=bicycle&results=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, aurfalien said: Hi, Well in an effort to help, I've emailed a company named Royal Models regarding dimensions as they've a 1/35 WW2 era bicycle; Good man. Worst they can say is "no". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurfalien Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Good man. Worst they can say is "no". Hi and thank you sir. I also emailed Master Box as they seem to have a WW2 bicycle that's a bit better, I found out about it here; http://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/german-military-bicycle-wwii-era Edited December 13, 2017 by aurfalien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) On 12/12/2017 at 9:12 AM, Steven W Zimmerman said: Most Photo etch suppliers that i know of do not do their own photo etchings, other than provide the original art. Photo etched 'stuff' is expensive - NOT something done in any decent quantity in your kitchen sink, so to speak.....IIRC, talking to Terry Kinnear a few years ago, a sheet of photo etch (cannot remember what it was) costs him $1000.00 plus, for a sheet around 2X2 or 3X3 feet., maybe larger .........'Z' It is nowhere near that bad. I also am into model railroad hobby and we photoetch detail parts or kits often. Even for one-off it is not that bad. Check out https://ppdltd.com/ that is who most use. The prices are there. If you provide etch-ready artwork you save bunch of money too. I have few projects planned - just haven't gotten to them yet. And normally you don't etch such large sheets. You design much smaller items then just run multiples. Basically like the MCG frets - those are just a single artwork etched in multiples. Heck, I have couple of unassembled sets of RMCoM dragster wheels - If I can find the time I can scan the original etchings (for size reference), redraw them in Corel Draw and create etch-ready artwork and have them made. Like I said, I just have to find some time for that. Also before I do that I would have to talk to Norm to see if he would restart the production of the resin parts and buy my etchings to make the sets complete. Edited December 14, 2017 by peteski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peekay Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) Last year I bought some very nice Ixo 1.24th motorbikes, including this Honda Gold Wing. I dropped the Honda on the floor (as you do) and it disassembled itself, freeing the front wheel. I'd only paid $14 with postage so I ordered another one, the bike in the 2nd pic. It then occurred to me that these wheels would look better on my Revell Outlaw than the kit items. Unfortunately, the back wheel is different, as it is on the prototype. But if I ever get round to building the Outlaw I will drop the 2nd Honda on the floor and have a matching pair! (The Ebbro box has nothing to do with this and the Chevy is there to show scale. And no, I'm not really suggesting this as a sensible solution.) Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Edited December 14, 2017 by peekay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, peekay said: ...But if I ever get round to building the Outlaw I will drop the 2nd Honda on the floor and have a matching pair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurfalien Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Hi, Unsure if this will fit the bill but Detail Master makes some wonderful PE spoke wheels. There 40 spoke has an O.D. of 14.5mm. You can find there wheel inserts here; http://www.detailmaster.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=e9a357b41d8f0a32801ed9454902676a&Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=detailmaster&Category_Code=PEWD They have there 72 spoke version here which is not in there wheel insert section; http://www.detailmaster.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=e9a357b41d8f0a32801ed9454902676a&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=detailmaster&Product_Code=DM-3170&Category_Code=DM-PhotoEtchedParts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 11 hours ago, aurfalien said: Unsure if this will fit the bill but Detail Master makes some wonderful PE spoke wheels. There 40 spoke has an O.D. of 14.5mm. That's a 14.5 inch diameter in 1/25 scale...useless for dragster wire fronts, which were motorcycle front wires, typically in the 17" to 19" range. Herb Deeks also makes some nice 15" conversion centers, but NO LONGER makes the larger ones (to the best of my knowledge). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/14/2017 at 12:21 AM, peteski said: It is nowhere near that bad. I also am into model railroad hobby and we photoetch detail parts or kits often. Even for one-off it is not that bad. Check out https://ppdltd.com/ that is who most use. The prices are there. If you provide etch-ready artwork you save bunch of money too. This is the single most useful post in this entire thread. I'll be following up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: This is the single most useful post in this entire thread. I'll be following up. Agreed! And they're in Scotland, so very easy for me to deal with. I just wish now I'd scanned that Tomy etched fret for the SS100 so I could scale it up! I think there might be one in the Hi-Tech Airfix E-Type that I have in the stash... Healey and Cobra wire wheels (for example) need to be quite densely spoked. best, M. Edited December 15, 2017 by Matt Bacon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Interesting thread. If someone does good looking front wire wheels for dragsters I'm in for some sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
250 Testa Rossa Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 On 11/27/2017 at 12:50 PM, curt raitz said: Brad...the guy who did is photo-etch stuff passed away...so Norm will only have leftover photo-etch stock for sale. Harold Bradford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curt raitz Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 9 hours ago, 250 Testa Rossa said: Harold Bradford? Sorry, but Norm did not tell me who did his photo-etch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 11:30 AM, Ace-Garageguy said: This is the single most useful post in this entire thread. I'll be following up. On 12/15/2017 at 5:47 PM, Matt Bacon said: Agreed! And they're in Scotland, so very easy for me to deal with. I just wish now I'd scanned that Tomy etched fret for the SS100 so I could scale it up! I think there might be one in the Hi-Tech Airfix E-Type that I have in the stash... Healey and Cobra wire wheels (for example) need to be quite densely spoked. best, M. You're very welcome guys. As long as you can produce an etch-ready artwork the price is quite affordable. I'll get in touch with Norm from RMCoM probably after the holidays and see if he is interested in restarting the production of his motorcycle wheels if I can supply him with the etchings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasser59 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Again, I can and would be thrilled to make the vector based, etch-ready artwork for the spokes. Sounds like there's plenty of interest in a quality set of these. I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I'll try to contact Norm to see if he is interested (it has been a busy holiday season). I have no problem doing the photomask artwork in Corel Draw (vector-based). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurfalien Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Hi, I just got word back from Master Box, there 1/35 WW2 bicycle wheels are 20mm in diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjim Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I just read this entire post/thread/whatever it's called, and found it very interesting. I have no input other than that and will be interested in seeing the results of others efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKustom Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Here's what I know about Replica's & Miniatures wheels... I worked with Norm last year to retool the photoetch portion for all three sizes. We did test shots and they came out pretty nice. He's so backed up with existing orders that this has fell off his plate. Last we spoke he was trying to get back to them early this year. Give him a call, leave a message saying you want them is the best thing to do if you want to see them back in the catalog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 That's a great news! The new etchings look a lot better than the original ones! Nice Job Tim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Still seems strange there are none the Scale Aircraft crowd uses that would work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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