Who came up with the 1:20 scale kits and why?!

[peteski]

This  thread got me thinking about this oddball scale. I have built automotive model kits in 1:8, 1:12, 1:16, 1:24, 1:25, 1:32, 1:43, 1:87, and 1:160 scales, but I have stayed away from 1:20. Why in the world someone decided to produce plastic models in that scale?!  What were they trying to accomplish?  Which company was the first to produce 1:20 scale kits?

It seems to have never caught on because there are very few models made in that scale.  Another oddball is 1:18, but that is, AFAIK only used for pre-reassembled diecast models.

[426 pack]

I know what you mean I was the one who created the thread and never even knew it was 1/20 scale and I have no idea why they make them in that scale as it is so close to 1/24 scale wich is a lot more popular. 

 

[Daddyfink]

There are quite a few kits made in 1/20th, with the most popular being Formula 1 cars. And from what I have noticed, MPC was the most prolific in making 1/20th scale kits. 

 

[BubbaBrown]

I read years ago the pattern makers worked in 1/10 scale and then scaled down from there. I think they might be called pantographs ? I think Art would have the best knowledge of this subject .

[pack rat]

I believe George Toteff was the major proponent of 1/20 scale, first when he formed MPC in the '60's, and later when he ran Craft House (Lindberg), when the Nissan pickup and a few others were created.  

 

[Rob Hall]

6 hours ago, Daddyfink said:

There are quite a few kits made in 1/20th, with the most popular being Formula 1 cars.  

 

Yes, it's been the standard scale for F1 kits for over 50 years...

[Mike999]

17 minutes ago, pack rat said:

I believe George Toteff was the major proponent of 1/20 scale, first when he formed MPC in the '60's, and later when he ran Craft House (Lindberg), when the Nissan pickup and a few others were created.  

 

That's what I always heard too. Too bad. MPC and Lindberg both made some 1/20 kits I would have bought more than once, if they had been in the "right" scale. 

I often wondered why, after the 1/20 MPC kits didn't sell, he persisted with the idea many years later at Lindberg.  Seems he might have thrown in some decals or accessories to make them "support vehicles" or something for the Japanese 1/20 Formula 1 cars.  As for those, I can sort of understand it. For one thing, 1/25 F1 cars would be tiny and benefit from the larger scale.  For another...well, it's the Japanese.  Who not only march to the sound of their own different drummer, but often have their own parade.

[Mark]

1 hour ago, Mike999 said:

I often wondered why, after the 1/20 MPC kits didn't sell, he persisted with the idea many years later at Lindberg.  

If 1/20 scale kits "didn't sell", they wouldn't have kept updating the C3 Corvette through '82, they wouldn't have issued the Ford van in so many different versions, and they wouldn't have done so many other kits in 1/20.  Someone was buying them...

[Dave Van]

1 hour ago, pack rat said:

I believe George Toteff was the major proponent of 1/20 scale, first when he formed MPC in the '60's, and later when he ran Craft House (Lindberg), when the Nissan pickup and a few others were created.  

 

Pretty much what I understand........it was a way to make smaller kits, Indy Turbine racer is one,  price out the same or more as the 1/25 kits. 

[Greg Myers]

The Hubley Metal kits were 1/20th scale. 

 

[Greg Myers]

Why 1/20th scale really begs the question, why 1/12, why 1/16th ?

I really think the last run of 1/12th stuff from Monogram ( '57 Chevy. ' Camaro. '65 Vett) were really quite toy like except for the great engine detail.

So "larger scale = Greater Detail" isn't the answer.

I also find this true with AMT's foray into 1/16 scale with their Tri-Five series, BIGGER didn't get us any more detail, just a blown up version of their 1/25th scale kits.

[pack rat]

2 hours ago, Dave Van said:

Indy Turbine racer is one,  price out the same or more as the 1/25 kits. 

I sooo wished that kit was done in 1/25 scale back then.  

[Mark]

1 hour ago, Greg Myers said:

The Hubley Metal kits were 1/20th scale. 

 

The Chevy and Ford kits were 1/20, but I believe the Duesenbergs were slightly smaller (1/22?) 

[Brian Austin]

Hubley's Duesenberg kits were 1:18, while their Packards were 1:22 and their Chevys and Fords were 1:20, all according to the flyer that came with my Ford kit.

 

Oddly enough, there was someone complaining on a "G Gauge" model railroad message board some time back that there were few appropriate kits in 1:20 scale to match his trains, and that kit manufacturers are missing a big market (by his estimation) and should tool up some new kits in that scale.

There was a line of "craftsman"-type kit (wood with some metal parts) produced in 1:20 scale by North East Narrow Gauge catering to this market.  It included their Tin Lizzy line of Model Ts along with a selection of horse-drawn wagons, in addition to their "Maine 2-footer" locomotive and rolling stock kits.  Sadly they went out of business several years ago.

(Dead catalog page archived at archive.org linked here for reference to show the Tin Lizzy line of products.)

https://web.archive.org/web/20121006000833/http://www.nemodel.com:80/shop/agora.cgi?product=tlc

Edited November 29, 2017 by Brian Austin

[Daddyfink]

I actually like the 20th scale stuff, but maybe because it was there when I was kid and it was straight up funky! 

[Richard Bartrop]

1/20 seems to be the standard scale for Formula models now, and I can kind of see it, because, the real cars are pretty tiny.

The real question is, why 1/25?  1/24 wass a pretty standard scale, and it seems to suit the rest of the world just fine.  The difference in size is negligible, and in practice, any difference tends to get lost in errors and creative interpretations of the original subject.

[Mark]

4 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

The real question is, why 1/25?  1/24 was a pretty standard scale, and it seems to suit the rest of the world just fine.  The difference in size is negligible, and in practice, any difference tends to get lost in errors and creative interpretations of the original subject.

The masters for the promotional models were carved in 1/10 scale and pantographed on a scale of 2.5 to 1 for cutting the tooling.  There's no reason that the factor couldn't have been 2.4 instead of 2.5.  But when the early promo models were being made, nobody was doing car kits in 1/24 scale.  (Or 1/25 for that matter; it was several years before someone at AMT realized that kits could/should be produced based on the promos).

[carman1]

I remember when Monogram came out with the 1 /20 Trans Am pace car,   I was so mad because of the scale,  never did understand why.

[Dave Van]

4 hours ago, pack rat said:

I sooo wished that kit was done in 1/25 scale back then.  

You, me and everyone else!!!! 

[Dave Van]

1/24 is easy.......O scale trains are 1/48 or 1/4" to the foot. Just double that and you get 1/24 and 1/2" to the foot. The odd scale is 1/25 only because of the 1/10 scale wood bucks and the 2.5 setting on panto graphs of the day. 

[Luc Janssens]

I think that if George Toteff, would've done 1/20th diecast models (not kits) a void in big scale auto toys would've been filled, (a void left when sheet metal toys went out of fasion) and 1/18 would not have existed.

just my 2 cents...

 

[Ron Hamilton]

I have several of them, as I collected the MPC corvettes and mad as a kid. I still have a 68 corvette and mad in 1/20, as well as others in that scale.

[Junkman]

Japan has a long tradition of 1/20 scale kits and not only F1 GP cars.

There has been a plethora of Japanese (and some imported) cars kitted in 1/20 scale in the 70s and 80s.
However, in no other scale true brilliance and total rubbish were so close together. There basically was no middle ground.
They were either excellent, or total tosh.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Junkman

[vamach1]

Certainly strange MPC made  a 1/20 427 Cobra and it took quite a long time for Revell/Monogram to come out with one in 1/24.

[Art Anderson]

2 hours ago, Dave Van said:

1/24 is easy.......O scale trains are 1/48 or 1/4" to the foot. Just double that and you get 1/24 and 1/2" to the foot. The odd scale is 1/25 only because of the 1/10 scale wood bucks and the 2.5 setting on panto graphs of the day. 

Actually, 1/25 scale came about here in the US due to the ease of scaling down:  1" in 1/25 scale is exactly .040". which incidently is within the split whisker of a gnat as well.  It's also a fairly common (or was) engineering and architectural scale.

Art