GSL Common Kit: [revision] just another Model A Roadster

[89AKurt]

Found on Fakebook Marketplace, arrived today.  I did a quick study to compare to the Roadster, 2004 for the Sedan, 2019 for the Roadster, I will say the quality of the newer kit is much better.  The Sedan has the original four banger engine and rear axle.  I am surprised there are two frames in the Roadster kit, the blower version fits inside the fenders better, but I would rather do the other engine.  I hope the hood fits over the V8, and I can run the exhaust inside because I don't want the header pipe outside.  I really like the mags on the Roadster, so going that route, it won't be important to exactly match the real car.  It will be interesting to see how much of the Roadster I can keep to qualify for the class.

[Spex84]

The tooling on that sedan is way older than 2004!  Try 1964

[89AKurt]

12 hours ago, Spex84 said:

The tooling on that sedan is way older than 2004!  Try 1964

Oh ok, good to know!  Seeing the headlight lenses are chrome, while the new kit has clear plastic, HUGE improvement.

Find it amusing this topic is already on page 2, when I haven't officially started yet. ?

[tim boyd]

On 1/2/2021 at 5:41 PM, 89AKurt said:

I have 17 months to build this project.  ?  Never thought I would get excited to get a Ford model ?, when I found out the Model A Roadster was the subject, started looking at Hobby Lobby and there weren't any on the shelf.  Today I lucked out, with the 40% off!  The GSL International Scale Vehicle Championship and Convention will be (think positive) May 5-8, 2022.  The Common Kit category features something that should be found anywhere, that isn't a collectible, from their Facebook page:

Home from the store:

I have wanted to do a Russell Stover candy truck for a long time.  In an issue of Fine Homebuilding magazine, there was a picture that caught my attention.  The picture shows a Model A, but they also used a Dodge truck, which had a different roof design, and only the windshield was used.  In this case, I need to find someone who will part with a pickup cab if there is such a thing.  I won't post reference pictures directly to respect Copyright (in other words not violate more than I already have).  I also do woodworking, so look forward to doing the Bungalow.

I was originally planning to use this Revell Woodstock kit, which has the fenders, hood and front bumper.  Looking at the frames, it appears these do not share any components, whoever has built these please confirm.  I could try to duplicate the one in the photos, but the hubcaps and perhaps the wheels are not like the kit's.  I'm digging the Halibrand wheels and tires, so if I stick with the engine, don't need the hood.

I have 17 months to decide on what to do, just wanted to start my WIP now to incentivize myself.

Kurt....good luck with your project. 

There is an article in the April, 1988 issue of Scale Auto that shows step by step how to kitbash a fully accurate 1930/1931 Model A Pickup Cab.  It is not hard to do, and sounds way within your build capabilities.  If you can't find the issue on eBay, it may still be available in the Kalmbach back issue department, and it is part of the "Scale Auto first 35 years" CD they produced about five years ago, and that is definitely available now from Kalmbach.  

And to further clarify some of the comments above, the new Revell '29A Roadster kit that Mark picked for the same kit competition is not only an entirely all-new tool but represents a hot rod version of the '29A.  As such, the frame in the kit is "Z'ed" at the rear, and the rear suspension is a modern Ford 9" differential suspended by coil-over shocks.  If you want a historically accurate frame on your project, the original Revell kits first dating from the mid 1960's are the way to go.  However, you probably need to check the exact wording of the "same kit" category and figure you how to use enough of the new Revell kit to qualify for that class.  Perhaps a "hot rod" adaptation of the original concept (oh no, I hear the groans awakening all over the world as I write this...which I do sympathize with...).   

Anyway, good luck with your project.  Below are a couple of photos of the results of that Scale Auto article, as possible inspiration (please forgive the hot rod flavor of the model; but the cab conversion process is the same for a vintage Model A build)   ....TIM 

Edited January 18, 2021 by tim boyd

[89AKurt]

52 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

Kurt....good luck with your project. 

There is an article in the April, 1988 issue of Scale Auto that shows step by step how to kitbash a fully accurate 1930/1931 Model A Pickup Cab.  It is not hard to do, and sounds way within your build capabilities.  If you can't find the issue on eBay, it may still be available in the Kalmbach back issue department, and it is part of the "Scale Auto first 35 years" CD they produced about five years ago, and that is definitely available now from Kalmbach.  

And to further clarify some of the comments above, the new Revell '29A Roadster kit that Mark picked for the same kit competition is not only an entirely all-new tool but represents a hot rod version of the '29A.  As such, the frame in the kit is "Z'ed" at the rear, and the rear suspension is a modern Ford 9" differential suspended by coil-over shocks.  If you want a historically accurate frame on your project, the original Revell kits first dating from the mid 1960's are the way to go.  However, you probably need to check the exact wording of the "same kit" category and figure you how to use enough of the new Revell kit to qualify for that class.  Perhaps a "hot rod" adaptation of the original concept (oh no, I hear the groans awakening all over the world as I write this...which I do sympathize with...).   

Anyway, good luck with your project.  Below are a couple of photos of the results of that Scale Auto article, as possible inspiration (please forgive the hot rod flavor of the model; but the cab conversion process is the same for a vintage Model A build)   ....TIM 

Oh wow, nothing like having awesome information being dropped in my lap!  If I was to duplicate the real thing, there might be about 9% of the '29 remaining, which would defeat the whole purpose.   I'm not adverse to doing hot rod style, the pictures of the real car have modern wheels anyway, unlike the original car.  Doing the dropped axle is undecided.  I see the firewall is modified for each engine application, would need to splice with the '31.  I'm hoping the hood can be used, and will match with the '29 grill.

Thank you Tim Boyd!

[Danno]

I'm glad Tim said it.

I was concerned, too, about your trying to replicate a basically stock Model A from a full-bore hot rod kit and still fly it by the GSL Judges. Not likely. But that's just if you stayed true to the one or the other - your chosen subject -or- the specified "same" kit.

It occurs to me, unfortunately, the only 'sameness' between the GSL specified kit and your subject matter is that both have "1929," "Ford," and "Model A" as lineage.

PS: Having said all that, I appreciate Tim calling our attention to the 1988 SAE article. I had missed that entirely, and yet it is a subject close to my heart.  Now leaving for a deep dive into the Danno Archives.

 

??

 

[89AKurt]

2 minutes ago, Danno said:

I'm glad Tim said it.

I was concerned, too, about your trying to replicate a basically stock Model A from a full-bore hot rod kit and still fly it by the GSL Judges. Not likely. But that's just if you stayed true to the one or the other - your chosen subject -or- the specified "same" kit.

It occurs to me, unfortunately, the only 'sameness' between the GSL specified kit and your subject matter is that both have "1929," "Ford," and "Model A" as lineage.

PS: Having said all that, I appreciate Tim calling our attention to the 1988 SAE article. I had missed that entirely, and yet it is a subject close to my heart.  Now leaving for a deep dive into the Danno Archives.

 

??

 

If you find it, I'll have to be friends with you.  ?  I'm not going to be museum accurate, there will be some morphing along the lines of the classic show rods.  Who knows, maybe I'll sweep the Bungalow back like it's almost being blown over by a hurricane.

Just looked through this WIP and saw how the exhaust will be run.

[Danno]

25 minutes ago, 89AKurt said:

If you find it, I'll have to be friends with you.  ?  I'm not going to be museum accurate, there will be some morphing along the lines of the classic show rods.  Who knows, maybe I'll sweep the Bungalow back like it's almost being blown over by a hurricane.

Just looked through this WIP and saw how the exhaust will be run.

ROTFLMAO!! ?

There you go . . . morph it!  

Besides, what are the chances the GSL judges would notice the difference between a stock Model A frame and a Z'd one? Or a '34 cab and a legit '31 cab?

They'd probably notice if you painted it pearl white with golden flake highlights and lettered it with flip-flop paint and gold leaf instead of plain white and period-correct One Shot lettering. 

[Hey, Mark. Something just looks . . . off . . . about this Russell Stover replica. Whadddyu think?]

 

??

 

[Danno]

1 hour ago, tim boyd said:

BTW, Tim,

Beautiful build!  And, the cab conversion is excellent!!

??

 

[89AKurt]

11 hours ago, Danno said:

ROTFLMAO!! ?

There you go . . . morph it!  

Besides, what are the chances the GSL judges would notice the difference between a stock Model A frame and a Z'd one? Or a '34 cab and a legit '31 cab?

They'd probably notice if you painted it pearl white with golden flake highlights and lettered it with flip-flop paint and gold leaf instead of plain white and period-correct One Shot lettering. 

[Hey, Mark. Something just looks . . . off . . . about this Russell Stover replica. Whadddyu think?]

 

??

 

Uh...... I'm more concerned that everyone else will be Augie wanna be making the most killer hot rods on the planet.  I was thinking a caramel cream with dark chocolate leather interior, and an Amaretto bottle hooked up to the carb for when rolling into a car show ......

[mchook]

I've been looking & I think this Model A is a newer built truck to replicate the real Dodge truck that was originally built. This looks like its got some hot rodding done to it. The  whole thing, especially the front end is really low, and not just because of the wrong wheels. The gas tank should be in the cowl but there's no gas cap and the headlights are lower than stock too. I would love to see under it because I bet it has a small v8. A little flathead would be COOL. This is all just my opinion but I say, build it how YOU want it.

[89AKurt]

47 minutes ago, mchook said:

I've been looking & I think this Model A is a newer built truck to replicate the real Dodge truck that was originally built. This looks like its got some hot rodding done to it. The  whole thing, especially the front end is really low, and not just because of the wrong wheels. The gas tank should be in the cowl but there's no gas cap and the headlights are lower than stock too. I would love to see under it because I bet it has a small v8. A little flathead would be COOL. This is all just my opinion but I say, build it how YOU want it.

I'm no expert at all with the Model A.  I know RS used a Dodge, seen the pictures and die-cast piggy bank model.  I should contact Russell Stover to see if they have pictures of the original car, hopefully a Model A was used.  Thanks for the input.

[Tom Geiger]

10 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

Uh...... I'm more concerned that everyone else will be Augie wanna be making the most killer hot rods on the planet.  

My thoughts exactly! But that’s the GSL!

[Danno]

11 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

Uh...... I'm more concerned that everyone else will be Augie wanna be making the most killer hot rods on the planet.  I was thinking a caramel cream with dark chocolate leather interior, and an Amaretto bottle hooked up to the carb for when rolling into a car show ......

Exactly why I don't bother.  I'm no Augie and I don't build Katzenjammer 7s.

??

[89AKurt]

One year later, started it!  They decided to do it 2023, so I still have plenty of time, but you know how that goes.  Already have questions, so if you have built this kit, feel free to chime in.

I have a drawing of the Bungalow, but should contact Russel Stover to see if they have more photos, especially of the back.  It would be awesome to know what the inside looked like, but I might just fake it.  Marked the parts to use, could probably make another car with the left overs.

First issue encountered, one frame cross member can't be correct, the pin does not allow the engine mounts to line up.  So I've decided to use the other frame that is intended for the blower version A, can't see a reason why not.

Comparing the frames.  The front tube cross member adds strength, I should be able to add the bumper back on.

What do the fenders look like?  Well dang, there is interference of the front cross member and the body part under the radiator.  So which kit is wrong?

Not many parts could be glued together before painting.

Since I picked which frame, this one needed more superglue and baking soda to fill the gaps at the cross member.

First paint session.  I will have to resist working on the black parts for awhile, since that takes longer to cure than other paint.  The Model Master aluminum is almost used up, will miss it but I have other paints that are almost as good.  I'm mixing Dullcote with gloss black to do semi-gloss.  The instructions are sort of confusing, version A with the blower shows the engine to be orange, and the transmission as aqua.  Really?  Good thing version B is semi-gloss black, looks much better with chrome.  Frame got Tamiya primer, am thinking of painting gloss chocolate brown.  I think black wheels are better than red for this car.

Another question, does the rear axle really glue to the frame?  That would mean no travel at all, like a Hardtail Harley.  There are coilover shocks, those are going to be replaced with scratch-built units, and the front will get coilovers.

[tim boyd]

11 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

One year later, started it!  They decided to do it 2023, so I still have plenty of time, but you know how that goes.  Already have questions, so if you have built this kit, feel free to chime in.

I have a drawing of the Bungalow, but should contact Russel Stover to see if they have more photos, especially of the back.  It would be awesome to know what the inside looked like, but I might just fake it.  Marked the parts to use, could probably make another car with the left overs.

First issue encountered, one frame cross member can't be correct, the pin does not allow the engine mounts to line up.  So I've decided to use the other frame that is intended for the blower version A, can't see a reason why not.

Comparing the frames.  The front tube cross member adds strength, I should be able to add the bumper back on.

What do the fenders look like?  Well dang, there is interference of the front cross member and the body part under the radiator.  So which kit is wrong?

Not many parts could be glued together before painting.

Since I picked which frame, this one needed more superglue and baking soda to fill the gaps at the cross member.

First paint session.  I will have to resist working on the black parts for awhile, since that takes longer to cure than other paint.  The Model Master aluminum is almost used up, will miss it but I have other paints that are almost as good.  I'm mixing Dullcote with gloss black to do semi-gloss.  The instructions are sort of confusing, version A with the blower shows the engine to be orange, and the transmission as aqua.  Really?  Good thing version B is semi-gloss black, looks much better with chrome.  Frame got Tamiya primer, am thinking of painting gloss chocolate brown.  I think black wheels are better than red for this car.

Another question, does the rear axle really glue to the frame?  That would mean no travel at all, like a Hardtail Harley.  

Kurt....good to see you back at the bench with this one. 

Those axle "holders" (locators) are molded into the frame for less accomplished builders who might struggle with getting the axle to sit property when using the coil overs and radius rods as the only locators. On most of my builds with this frame, I used the holders to mockup and glue the coil overs and radius rods to the rear axle/diff, then cut away the holders before painting the frame.  Very easy and big improvement in realism for those of us all who actually care about these things.

Best of luck with your project...TIM 

[89AKurt]

13 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Kurt....good to see you back at the bench with this one. 

Those axle "holders" (locators) are molded into the frame for less accomplished builders who might struggle with getting the axle to sit property when using the coil overs and radius rods as the only locators. On most of my builds with this frame, I used the holders to mockup and glue the coil overs and radius rods to the rear axle/diff, then cut away the holders before painting the frame.  Very easy and big improvement in realism for those of us all who actually care about these things.

Best of luck with your project...TIM 

Good, thank you for checking in!  That makes sense, and only a few of us would really care about that.  Now I need to shift gears about order of painting, again.

Opened the chrome parts bag, and was bummed to find some parts are ruined.  The tie rod ends are bent over, should line up with the yellow lines.  I noticed the wheels don't steer, so I bet some builders will fix that, and this only taunts me.

One of the trim rings is a short shot.  The mag wheels look nice, but I don't like how they aren't a matching pattern, and don't think they will fit the somewhat replica look I want.   Since I have the other kit, should look there.......

Glued the engine parts on, except the distributor.  Rear axle parts, and also the brake backing plates are on the front axle.

Need to decide how much I need to detail the engine.  I'm already expecting to make headers, need to keep the steering shaft in mind.  I don't know anything about this engine, so I better do some research.  I know some builders are going to go nuts with turned aluminum pulleys, throttle linkage, who knows what else that takes time and almost nobody can see. 😑

[89AKurt]

Suspension detail time!  Did a quick search, just looking for decent pictures for reference.  I see a variety of designs, so I tried to not get sidetracked on totally redoing everything.  I didn't see the point of the front shocks and towers staying in one piece, and I saw an opportunity to add something to the rear, but most important, got to fix a pet peeve of mine, coil spring parts.  What I was inspired by, but not duplicating exactly:

My OCD is getting triggered. 😬  The transmission pan sure looks crooked, it appears to have matched the edges all around, so what's up?  The other thing, I picked the wrong driveshaft, mixing the engine and frame didn't help, so I recommend painting both.

I've been collecting springs and steel shafts for decades, so I have a decent selection.  Front shocks required the Waldron punch tool, drilled holes first in .20" sheet styrene.  Tools not shown that were used, Dremel with cutoff disk, and hot-wire cutter to dismember the rear shocks.  Rear shocks have thick wall steel tubing, with plastic tubing inside, then steel shafts that go the full length into the kit ends.  Front shocks have plastic disks, otherwise the kit shocks are not changed.  Front springs were cut where the spirals come together in the middle, wish I could have done that on the rear.

Front shock towers are cleaned up, glued to the frame, ran superglue as if welded, need to clean up.

Rear springs, happened to have opposite twists.  I plan to use photo-etch nuts to detail the shock ends.

The lateral link is made with railroad railing stanchions (used up my first package, recently got more so I could go nuts), and thin wall steel tubing.  Used a shirt pin for bolts on s-b mounts.  A tool I got recently is a reamer, it's coming in handy.

Now I need to decide if the shocks should remain chrome (steel) or paint black or a tasty color.

[Straightliner59]

43 minutes ago, 89AKurt said:

The lateral link is made with railroad railing stanchions (used up my first package, recently got more so I could go nuts), and thin wall steel tubing.

I have been using those since the mid-'80s. They're awesome! It's looking great, Kurt! That is some high strangeness, with the trans pan.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Straightliner59

[Cool Hand]

Excellent reworking of the suspension components.

[NOBLNG]

Nice upgrades on the suspension. Ugly, oversized shocks shafts are one of my pet peeves. Those look excellent and I will be stealing that method of correction!🙂

[Kit Karson]

Really inspired by your build so far! -KK

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Kit Karson
Text correction...

[Kit Karson]

A friend of mine built this from pickup cab using the Revell ‘30 Model A Coupe kit with the addition of a modified AMT/Lindberg ‘34 pickup bed.

 

Facebook

His '30 Model A Pickup started with the Monogram 5 Window Coupe

 

[tbill]

Wow, you’re going right to town on this, looks amazing so far!

[89AKurt]

18 hours ago, Straightliner59 said:

I have been using those since the mid-'80s. They're awesome! It's looking great, Kurt! That is some high strangeness, with the trans pan.

Thank you.  I was turned onto them last century.  Last project, used brass tubing, which was thicker wall.

17 hours ago, Cool Hand said:

Excellent reworking of the suspension components.

Appreciate your comment. 😊

12 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

Nice upgrades on the suspension. Ugly, oversized shocks shafts are one of my pet peeves. Those look excellent and I will be stealing that method of correction!🙂

Sounds fair, I've been stealing ideas from you. 😁  I'm thinking of improving the front shocks, with wire shafts, and taking off the nubs on the towers which are for the headlights.

11 hours ago, Kit Karson said:

Really inspired by your build so far! -KK

Cool! 😎  Thanks for posting the pictures, I see a mix of hood and cab, which I will be facing.

11 hours ago, tbill said:

Wow, you’re going right to town on this, looks amazing so far!

Have a wild hair, and got out of a slump with quick builds at the end of the year.  Thank you.