Is pride a thing of the past?

[Scott8950]

Some people just don't care about pride at all, it's all about making a fast dollar with no concern about their reputation.  I spoke with a guy at a local radiator shop about cleaning a fuel tank and welding a fuel sump on, the guy tells me he has done 100's of sumps so no problem and says $165 will cover everything.  I get a call yesterday afternoon to come pick up my tank and this is what I see when I got there. Tacked in a few places then poorly soldered over. After a very heated argument and him calling the police I basically was told pay or don't pay and leave my tank.. Just for curiosity I put water in to see how much it would leak and it leaks badly..I could NEVER let anything like that leave my shop with my name and reputation on it. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Scott8950

[Dave Van]

From what I understand Pride in workmanship is wrong....it hurts other peoples feelings. 

That said it is SOP today.  We sent a barn find 1975 Mustang, sitting for 30 years, to a well know shop for a check up. After $1000 to make it a safe daily driver, we got a car with no oil pressure, will not idle and had the new fan belts installed tooth side OUT!!!! 

We are currently negotiating a partial refund. 

[webestang]

Pride as well as common sense is long gone. Sad, just sad.    

[Scott8950]

10 minutes ago, Dave Van said:

From what I understand Pride in workmanship is wrong....it hurts other peoples feelings. 

That said it is SOP today.  We sent a barn find 1975 Mustang, sitting for 30 years, to a well know shop for a check up. After $1000 to make it a safe daily driver, we got a car with no oil pressure, will not idle and had the new fan belts installed tooth side OUT!!!! 

We are currently negotiating a partial refund. 

I've gotta take this tank to another shop so it can be welded properly. 

 

12 minutes ago, webestang said:

Pride as well as common sense is long gone. Sad, just sad.    

I agree..

[Dave Van]

The common sense train pulled out of the station and ain't coming back. 

I took 4 years of auto tech, true it was the 70's, and could have done the work if not for some surgery I had that kept me from it. I PAID to have the work done by professionals so the car would be ready when my wife retired as a RN....now it will wait until I am able to do it.  What pro with any common sense puts a belt on backwards??? The 16 year old at Auto Zone knows better. 

[oldscool]

I would do every thing I could to put this guy out of business.

[1972coronet]

Cheap & Fast has been the mantra for a long , long time .  Those bubble gum welds are amazing ! 

Cheap & Fast "landscapers" are another example -- leaf blowers aren't used by REAL landscapers .

As I've been saying since high school (1986) : Strive ! For Mediocrity . 

[Scott8950]

5 minutes ago, Dave Van said:

The common sense train pulled out of the station and ain't coming back. 

I took 4 years of auto tech, true it was the 70's, and could have done the work if not for some surgery I had that kept me from it. I PAID to have the work done by professionals so the car would be ready when my wife retired as a RN....now it will wait until I am able to do it.  What pro with any common sense puts a belt on backwards??? The 16 year old at Auto Zone knows better. 

Absolutely amazing at what some people will try passing off on others. Hate to hear about your bad luck and your right if you want that car fixed the right way you'll most likely need to do it. 

About 20 years ago I was working for my oldest uncle in his body shop. He had a friend in poor health unable to work and the guys daughter was working to take care of him, well she has a wreck one afternoon on her way home from work.  My uncle towed the car to his shop to fix it at no charge,  one day while working on it he tells me to get it ready for a new floor pan and I say to my uncle " your never gonna see that floor pan and your doing this out of your own pocket don't worry about the pan" my uncle looks at me and says " when this car leaves my shop it has my name on it and I'll be d@mned if it leaves here like that"  

Guys like that are few and far between anymore. 

[NOBLNG]

Not saying you wanted it cheap or fast, but this reminds me of a sign I once saw. Any reputable shop should not offer option #3! ?

Edited June 26, 2021 by NOBLNG

[Scott8950]

13 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

Not saying you wanted it cheap or fast, but this reminds me of a sign I once saw. Any reputable shop should not offer option #3! ?

The price he quoted was actually about the same as other shops I contacted, all were within $30 from each other. I chose him because he said he had done 100's of fuel sumps.

[Mark]

-Shouldn't he have been able to prove his work didn't leak (or you have been able to show that it did) before you paid for the work and took the part?  Of course, if you went back now, he'd probably claim you did something to it that caused it to leak.

-I'm surprised you were able to find multiple shops nearby that at least claimed the ability to do the work.  All of the radiator and tank shops around here have huge signs reading "new gas tanks and radiators installed".  Nobody fixes anymore, just replaces.

-How can anyone even install a drive belt inside out?  That sure took some doing, all the (pre-serpentine) belts on my vehicles had a definite taper that fit the grooves on the pulleys.  Just when you think service can't get any worse, or people any dumber, along comes someone to upset the paradigm...

[Scott8950]

9 minutes ago, Mark said:

-Shouldn't he have been able to prove his work didn't leak (or you have been able to show that it did) before you paid for the work and took the part?  

I was very angry with the so called welding and automatically assumed it probably leaks. He called law enforcement after a heated argument and the officer told me I can pay or refuse to pay and leave the tank. You are correct I should have asked to see some work but I thought the guy seemed reputable but your never to old to learn a lesson. 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Scott8950

[espo]

17 hours ago, Scott8950 said:

I was very angry with the so called welding and automatically assumed it probably leaks. He called law enforcement after a heated argument and the officer told me I can pay or refuse to pay and leave the tank. You are correct I should have asked to see some work but I thought the guy seemed reputable but your never to old to learn a lesson. 

After he buggered up your tank and what it would cost to correct I would have left him with the tank and just order a new one already done correctly. Often cheaper in the long run.  

[Scott8950]

2 hours ago, espo said:

After he buggered up your tank and what it would cost to correct I would have left him with the tank and just order a new one already done correctly. Often cheaper in the long run.  

It's much cheaper for me to have it fixed than to replace or I'd have definitely taken that option. 

[Danno]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:12 AM, Scott8950 said:

 I chose him because he said he had done 100's of fuel sumps.

He didn't say he had done any of them well, did he?

 

[Scott8950]

2 hours ago, Danno said:

He didn't say he had done any of them well, did he?

 

Nope , I would have taken my business somewhere else if he would have been honest and said he wasn't capable of doing the job.

[TarheelRick]

I think that shop needs to be checked for a pigeon infiltration; looks like that fuel tank was one of their favorite roosting places.  Sorry to hear about this shoddy work.  But, as has been said before, pride is no longer a politically correct idea.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 6/28/2021 at 8:56 AM, TarheelRick said:

...pride is no longer a politically correct idea.

Actually, it's more that excellence...or even competence...is not politically correct.

Doing a beautiful job, or even one that's just barely acceptable, is now an affront to anyone who's either incapable or lacks the motivation to get things right.

And it's exactly what you should expect from teaching multiple generations that "everyone is a winner" no matter what kind of sorry mess they turn out, that self respect is an entitlement rather than something to be earned through achievement, that excrement smeared on a wall is "art", etc., etc., etc.

It is also an effect of an over "educated" but still largely ignorant-of-physical-reality "workforce" that looks down on those who have physical skills, mistakenly believing the world revolves around their pathetic little universe of apps that are usually as poorly built and functional as that fuel tank mod the OP put up.

Yes boys and girls, IT does make possible our modern world, but it's not the center of it. IT is nothing but a tool that replaces old-school record keeping and information exchange. The world worked just fine prior to everything being so much more-better-with-IT (with some admittedly notable exceptions where IT does in fact wonderfully streamline certain operations...IF IT'S DONE WELL). It also, of course, makes things like this online forum possible.

However, it's also a potential nightmare waiting to happen, like industries being shut down by hackers for ransom. Recently the entire southeast was semi-crippled due to fuel shortages for weeks, after a major pipeline's computer operating systems were breached by hackers. Remember? And the operations of a major meat packer were likewise disrupted more recently.

Nice work there, little IT fellas, leaving your oh-so-special apps so full of exploitable security holes and back doors you can drive a garbage truck through 'em. You should be very, very proud.

EDIT:  I've been ranting about the almost universal lack of competence in the automotive field (and the workforce as a whole) for years, but I've generally been written off as an angry old geezer shouting at clouds.

Funny how perceptions change when somebody is personally affected by the phenomenon.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tom Geiger]

5 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Actually, it's more that excellence...or even competence...is not politically correct.

Doing a beautiful job, or even one that's just barely acceptable, is now an affront to anyone who's either incapable or lacks the motivation to get things right.

And it's exactly what you get from teaching multiple generations that "everyone is a winner" no matter what kind of sorry mess they turn out, that self respect is an entitlement rather than something to be earned through achievement, that excrement smeared on a wall is "art", etc. etc., etc.

And it is also an effect of an overeducated but still largely ignorant workforce that looks down on those who have physical skills, mistakenly believing the world revolves around their pathetic little universe of apps that are usually as well turned out and functional as that fuel tank "work".

Yes boys and girls, IT does make possible our modern world...like industries being shut down by hackers for ransom, and the entire southeast being semi-crippled due to fuel shortages for weeks.

Nice work there, little IT fellas. You should be very proud.

I was wondering where you were! If any thread is “Ace Bait”, this is it! ?

[Scott8950]

After being angry for a few days over the hacked up welding this is the way I decided to go.

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Scott8950 said:

After being angry for a few days over the hacked up welding this is the way I decided to go.

Looks like a real tank built by somebody who actually knows and understands what he's doing.

[Scott8950]

50 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Looks like a real tank built by somebody who actually knows and understands what he's doing.

Exactly and that's why I didn't mind spending the extra money for it. 

 

[89AKurt]

7 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

I was wondering where you were! If any thread is “Ace Bait”, this is it! ?

?  I see no need to add anything.  Other than, if it's not a video game, or a plug-in replacement part, forget it.  That's why I'm amazed to see show cars quality of work, those craftsmen are about .0000000000001% of the population.

[Dave Van]

Little update on my 1975 Mustang II barn find.........

Dr released me so I am out of my wheelchair. Put the Mustang up on the rack, pulled the oil sensor, temporary  installed a manual oil gauge.   Cranked her up....60 psi at idle.  New oil sensor and put her back together.   My 'PRO' should have done that.  Fixing the carb that they fixed took another hour and she's all good. On to cosmetic issues! 

Point is....a shop that had a good reputation should strive to keep it. But I think today if you are just OK.....you out shine the idiots.  So why over do it???

Edited July 3, 2021 by Dave Van

[blunc]

I have a few things to posit regarding this thread.

I personally have a hard time finding auto shops that can do work to my satisfaction for the types of work I am unable to do by myself at home, this means I have to research shops and attempt to glean (hopefully) truthful reviews of potential establishments and then see if the shop I have chosen will perform to my expectations without gouging me for things not needed.

That being said, the lack of craftsmen out there for any discipline is shrinking as fast as the cheap "apps" are being created.

Some trade schools produce stars but most "graduate"  students barely able to identify a wrench from a screwdriver.

The desire to be excellent has been replaced with the desire to make do, and if by chance anyone attempts to push for "better than average" (and we all know that the average bar has sunk pretty low), then you're just asking too much.

Regarding the "IT" issue, the problem may not always reside with the person actually doing the IT work, but instead may rest squarely on management/corporate greed not allocating sufficient resources to protect the companies from outside intrusions.