Return of the 1/25 MPC '68 Coronet/Super Bee RT Convertible...

[Mark]

That is, if he owns the original company, and not just the tooling...

[Luc Janssens]

6 minutes ago, Mark said:

That is, if he owns the original company, and not just the tooling...

And that we don't know.

[niteowl7710]

Supposedly he had to sue Seville over the naming right after he bought all the tooling bits and NoS leftover parts because he was under the impression he bought that too and they were under the impression he didn't...or so the story went back when the whole thing changed hands. There was a point where he had to call it JoHan Models or some such cause he really didn't have ownership of the trade dress and name. I seriously doubt he owns any of the actual IP of JoHan at this point since he doesn't possess a single piece of tooling that's in one piece as all of the stuff that got run for Testors by Seville has gone AWOL.

Edited November 23, 2022 by niteowl7710

[keyser]

Then there’s sub licensing for import purposes, I.e. Craftmaster for MPC, Esci for AMT. Pool gets deep quickly. 

[Can-Con]

OK, so,, What exactly would Okey Spailding's company, "Johan" hold? 

Everyone's assuming it's the same company that made all those kits in the past but that was "Jo-Han". 

It was my understanding that he started up a new company with a similar name to move whatever merchandise he had with pipe dreams of actually producing some kits.

I don't think it's legally the same company, but I don't know all that much about it, just asking .

[keyser]

Whatever he has, hasn’t done much at all in couple decades. I’m not expecting much, he’s a nice guy I’ve always heard, but if it was viable, something would’ve happened. 
Hope it goes well this time, not putting long money on it. 

[Mark]

To be fair, he's not involved in any of this discussion, which all pretty much started with the idea of other companies using old Jo-Han kits as scanning material, as Round 2 is now doing but with old AMT and MPC kits.  Something like that is unlikely to happen, as nearly everyone else seems to be capable of designing a new kit from scratch. 

[Scott8950]

So who has the maverick, cuda, sc  rambler and comet molds? Wasn't the amt maverick the johan maverick? The cuda, rambler and comet were last seen as testors kits.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Scott8950

[GMP440]

Interesting how this topic got off topic from the 68 Coronet announcement to ownership rights of Johan and what kits or tooling is currently with the current owner.

[keyser]

Another board I believe said Model Roundup posted 1/23 for 68 convert. Woot.

[stavanzer]

Here is the Link to Model Roundup.

https://www.modelroundup.com/1968-Dodge-Coronet-Convertible-with-Trailer-p/mpc-r2-978.htm

 

[Luc Janssens]

15 hours ago, Mark said:

To be fair, he's not involved in any of this discussion, which all pretty much started with the idea of other companies using old Jo-Han kits as scanning material, as Round 2 is now doing but with old AMT and MPC kits.  Something like that is unlikely to happen, as nearly everyone else seems to be capable of designing a new kit from scratch. 

Indeed Mark.

[Mark]

13 hours ago, Scott8950 said:

So who has the maverick, cuda, sc  rambler and comet molds? Wasn't the amt maverick the johan maverick? The cuda, rambler and comet were last seen as testors kits.

Nobody knows what happened to any of the kits that were sold by Testors. 

Testors did not manufacture kits, they bought "bagged kits" from other companies and put them in their own packaging with improved decals and instruction sheets.  I have a couple of their reboxed Fujimi Enthusiast Series kits, as well as a couple of reboxed Jo-Han kits.  Those included extras; their versions of the AMX and SC/Rambler included small frets of photoetch emblems.  Others included cast metal wheels supplied by Jimmy Flintstone, that used Monogram tires if I remember right.

One of the Testors boxes I have (the Comet, maybe) states in the fine print on the side panel that the kit was "manufactured for Testors by SeVille Enterprises".  The others don't have any clear information.  I would suspect that all were made in the SeVille/Jo-Han facilities, as all seem to be made of similar plastic and are of similar quality to everything else produced by them at that time.

The AMT pro stock Maverick was indeed the Jo-Han kit.  AMT sold a number of Jo-Han kits in AMT packaging between late 1966 and about 1974.  The Maverick was one of the last ones issued under this arrangement.

These were manufactured by Jo-Han in their facilities and packed in AMT boxes with decals and instruction sheets printed by AMT.  Nobody in the know about the arrangement has ever publicly talked about how it started, whose idea it was, or why it ended.  I'd suspect that AMT had simply run out of Jo-Han items that they felt were marketable, and weren't interested in the USA Oldies series items Jo-Han was beginning to issue in 1974.

AMT had much better distribution for its products than did Jo-Han, so they (Jo-Han) could sell many more kits with the AMT name on the box than with their own.  On the flip side, they probably didn't make nearly as much per item doing things that way.

AMT, on the other hand, added a few items to their catalog every year without having to tool up new kits.

[Daddyfink]

10 hours ago, GMP440 said:

Interesting how this topic got off topic from the 68 Coronet announcement to ownership rights of Johan and what kits or tooling is currently with the current owner.

Yeah, around here, that is par for the course! 

[rickcaps55]

9 hours ago, stavanzer said:

Here is the Link to Model Roundup.

https://www.modelroundup.com/1968-Dodge-Coronet-Convertible-with-Trailer-p/mpc-r2-978.htm

 

Pre-ordered 2 this morning i think this one will sell fast wanted to get in line also saw in Dec AMT has the white letter tiers back this time as Firestone ordered a couple of them to.

[Stef]

11 hours ago, Mark said:

Nobody knows what happened to any of the kits that were sold by Testors. 

Testors did not manufacture kits, they bought "bagged kits" from other companies and put them in their own packaging with improved decals and instruction sheets.  I have a couple of their reboxed Fujimi Enthusiast Series kits, as well as a couple of reboxed Jo-Han kits.  Those included extras; their versions of the AMX and SC/Rambler included small frets of photoetch emblems.  Others included cast metal wheels supplied by Jimmy Flintstone, that used Monogram tires if I remember right.

One of the Testors boxes I have (the Comet, maybe) states in the fine print on the side panel that the kit was "manufactured for Testors by SeVille Enterprises".  The others don't have any clear information.  I would suspect that all were made in the SeVille/Jo-Han facilities, as all seem to be made of similar plastic and are of similar quality to everything else produced by them at that time.

The AMT pro stock Maverick was indeed the Jo-Han kit.  AMT sold a number of Jo-Han kits in AMT packaging between late 1966 and about 1974.  The Maverick was one of the last ones issued under this arrangement.

These were manufactured by Jo-Han in their facilities and packed in AMT boxes with decals and instruction sheets printed by AMT.  Nobody in the know about the arrangement has ever publicly talked about how it started, whose idea it was, or why it ended.  I'd suspect that AMT had simply run out of Jo-Han items that they felt were marketable, and weren't interested in the USA Oldies series items Jo-Han was beginning to issue in 1974.

AMT had much better distribution for its products than did Jo-Han, so they (Jo-Han) could sell many more kits with the AMT name on the box than with their own.  On the flip side, they probably didn't make nearly as much per item doing things that way.

AMT, on the other hand, added a few items to their catalog every year without having to tool up new kits.

Most informative, thank you. Is Round 2's recent Californian reissue based on Jo-Han's Toronado interior, engine, chassis, and suspension?

I'm not totally clear on the AMT/MPC/Jo-Han connection regarding the Olds Toronado kits. Earlier this year, I missed the chance to buy a beautiful, unpainted, builtup AMT 67-ish(?) Toronado. Did MPC use the Jo-Han tooling to make their Mannix and Californian?

With all Round 2's awesome cloning going on, anyone wanna place their bets that a stock Toronado body is in the works?

[Mark]

MPC Toronado is a different kit from Jo-Han's, though they did copy much of Jo-Han's "design".  Jo-Han captured the promotional model contract for the debut 1966 model, MPC got it for '67 so they had to create their own.

[stavanzer]

Another Perspective on Tooling/Kits.

Academy Models out of Korea, got their start by 'Knocking off' copies of other , more well known, companies kits. In order to evade Copyright infringement charges, they would change 15% of the tool, (either layout or content) , in order not to be sued. Now, they no longer do that, but I have built 1/72 aircraft kits where an Academy Fuselage Half would mate with a Corresponding half from a Monogram or Hasegawa kit. Academy not longer does this, but they did start that way. 

My point, is that a Model Company based in a Non-Western Country, who did not mind the possible Blow-Back, could copy old Johan kits all day long, if they wanted to. By changing approx 20% or so of the contents, litigation about "Who Copied What" could take a long time, while a large number of Kits could be sold to modeler's who don't really care about legal niceties. Is this bad? Sure? But, an unscrupulous vendor could sell a lot of product, before the Cease & Desist order showed up. I believe with a Decent Lawyer, you could hold things off for a long time, provided it was only a partial copy and not an exact duplicate.

[stavanzer]

An Example from China, Zhengdefu Kits.

https://modelingmadness.com/scott/mod/zf14preview.htm

 

[Oldcarfan27]

[Luc Janssens]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:31 AM, stavanzer said:

An Example from China, Zhengdefu Kits.

https://modelingmadness.com/scott/mod/zf14preview.htm

 

Funny read the same the other day

Anyone have the company address? asking for a friend

 

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Luc Janssens

[GMP440]

 

  Now that Round 2 has the 68 Coronet convertible coming soon followed by the hardtop afterwards will try to build these two.  Fireball Modelworks produces these hubcaps.  The green hardtop is the one I own.  Got it in 79 from my mother.

 

[Joe Nunes]

The blue convertible is certainly nice, however, your green hardtop is my favorite one of those shown. It's really nice that you can keep your mother's car in your family. 

Joe

[Carmak]

17 hours ago, GMP440 said:

 

  Now that Round 2 has the 68 Coronet convertible coming soon followed by the hardtop afterwards will try to build these two.  Fireball Modelworks produces these hubcaps.  The green hardtop is the one I own.  Got it in 79 from my mother.

 

My 68 is currently in the shop getting fresh paint. I have a few original 68 R/T builders and nice built kits but I will be all over the new 68 R/T kit in all forms!

[GMP440]

 

  When the MPC 68 Coronet hardtop kit gets released after the convertible kit would love to do a Dick Landy car and a Paul Goldsmith car.