We seem to be losing resin manufacturers at an alarming rate.

[Ace-Garageguy]

36 minutes ago, peteski said:

Yes, 3D printing (either at home or someone selling printed parts) is the way of the future, but the quality is still not there.

Actually, from some modelers and vendors, it is.

I remarked above that the best of the best aftermarket parts I have (defined by the finest imaginable detail, with zero surface finishing needed) are 3D prints.

But indeed, a lot of the stuff out there at the moment is still grainy, warped, or shows print lines.

[mikemodeler]

5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

With 8 billion+ people on the planet, and 336 million+ in the USA alone, one would think there would be at least a few who met that criterion.  

It's likely more of a matter of what is important to them- money, time, creativity, commitment- that either keeps them out of the hobby or burns them out once they see what the job entails.

 

As was mentioned, many take on the role of resin caster and the initial enthusiasm soon evaporates once they are overwhelmed with life, work, family and resin casting realities. And as we have seen many times, the first one to be put on pause is the resin casting. Many great products and companies have disappeared as the owners could not simply do it all.

 

Guys like Danny at Scenes Unlimited stumbled into the business after he retired from his career job. At first it was fun for him, but because his product is/was so nice and it filled a hole in the hobby, he soon had a full time job. Others have found it hard to balance and either fall behind or close down, a few manage to figure it out. I admire those that can create cool stuff and offer it up to us modelers, I remember a time when there wasn't much of an aftermarket for the hobby.

I literally have thousands of dollars of resin stuff because I see it and buy it, knowing I may or may not ever use it, but I have it in case I need it.

[Ace-Garageguy]

18 minutes ago, mikemodeler said:

I literally have thousands of dollars of resin stuff because I see it and buy it, knowing I may or may not ever use it, but I have it in case I need it.

I just wish I'd had the presence of mind and understanding of the ephemeral nature of the resin business to have bought everything I was interested in when it was available.

I've learned my lesson, and snap up everything I really want now...but as the man once said "shoulda been here yesterday".

[Bills72sj]

This has been an interesting read. As a hobby consumer, styrene is cheap and easily modified into whatever shape one desires with the exception of fine detail. Resin gave us the ability to obtain subjects that are not readily available. That demand will continually spill over into the 3D realm. Once a file is available there will always be people willing to print it for others. This is the stage I am at. I buy 3D prints because they scratch that itch. Someday, I may get a printer but I have too much kit inventory to build already. I bought nice batch of parts from a vendor on Shapeways last year. It was very economical for the exquisite detail I got.

 

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

I guess I had better get that planned order in to Norm at RMCM before it's too late! -RRR

[Mike 1017]

14 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I just wish I'd had the presence of mind and understanding of the ephemeral nature of the resin business to have bought everything I was interested in when it was available.

I've learned my lesson, and snap up everything I really want now...but as the man once said "shoulda been here yesterday".

I agree snap the parts up ASAP. I wanted to buy a Mercury Cyclone Trans Kit.I kept putting it off. Now they are gone.

[restoman]

19 hours ago, Mark said:

 

Most casters underpriced their time resulting in burnout or their acquiring the attitude that they were doing the world a favor.  

Very true!

I've bought some top-shelf resin products from some of the best casters around, and every time I've wondered how they can make money at the low prices they charged. I've also bought some much lower-quality resin products from other casters that were priced very similar to what the top casters charged.

 

[Reegs]

On 3/2/2023 at 1:07 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Is that as happy as a clam? Asking for a friend.   

I think that it's close to being happy as a pig in - um, er, mud.

[Oldmopars]

On 3/2/2023 at 4:00 PM, peteski said:

Not only that, but resin casting is an art form.  Someone has to be skilled and fastidious to produce good castings.  Norm from RMCoM or Don from Modelhaus are/were perfect examples.

Unfortunately (as Ace-Garage guy Bill often reminds us), craftsmanship and fastidiousness have for most part become a thing of the past.  There are many resin casters still out there, producing mediocre products.  I'm afraid that once those good casters retire, good resin castings will be a thing of the past.

Yes, 3D printing (either at home or someone selling printed parts) is the way of the future, but the quality is still not there.

I agree with Bill. The quality is there if you know who to buy from. I can attest to this as I do design work for a top quality 3D printer. For example, when I design an engine, I use 50+ photos, gaskets scaled to size, measurements from real engines, scans, etc. The latest engine I just finished is as close as you will ever find to the real thing. I know this as I used the real thing to design it. I have the real engine, I measured it, took pictures of it, used scans of gaskets, etc. to get it as perfect as possible. 50+ hours of design went into that one engine alone. Then, Charles prints these engines to the highest level of quality. He knows some VooDoo magic that I can't recreate at home. 

As an example, look at the Slant 6 below. Try to find that detail in either a kit or resin.  Check out Texas 3D Customs, you will see very high quality products are available, and at a reasonable price.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Oldmopars said:

I agree with Bill. The quality is there if you know who to buy from...

As an example, look at the Slant 6 below. Try to find that detail in either a kit or resin.  Check out Texas 3D Customs, you will see very high quality products are available, and at a reasonable price.  

Yup. Great stuff.

[peteski]

1 hour ago, Oldmopars said:

I agree with Bill. The quality is there if you know who to buy from. I can attest to this as I do design work for a top quality 3D printer. For example, when I design an engine, I use 50+ photos, gaskets scaled to size, measurements from real engines, scans, etc. The latest engine I just finished is as close as you will ever find to the real thing. I know this as I used the real thing to design it. I have the real engine, I measured it, took pictures of it, used scans of gaskets, etc. to get it as perfect as possible. 50+ hours of design went into that one engine alone. Then, Charles prints these engines to the highest level of quality. He knows some VooDoo magic that I can't recreate at home. 

Scott, it is not that the quality isn't there -  the problem is when the craftsman resin caster who produced excellent quality casting close shop, there are no qualified fastidious people who could take over their business to keep producing quality castings.  After all, "losing resin manufacturers" is the theme of this thread.

3D printing is a whole new ball of wax.  Even if excellent quality 3D prints were used as masters to cast resin copies, whoever is making those resin casts can still produce inferior bubble-ridden copies if they do not have their casting process perfected or they are sloppy people.  Remember, this thread is about resin casters.

[Oldmopars]

1 hour ago, peteski said:

Scott, it is not that the quality isn't there -  the problem is when the craftsman resin caster who produced excellent quality casting close shop, there are no qualified fastidious people who could take over their business to keep producing quality castings.  After all, "losing resin manufacturers" is the theme of this thread.

3D printing is a whole new ball of wax.  Even if excellent quality 3D prints were used as masters to cast resin copies, whoever is making those resin casts can still produce inferior bubble-ridden copies if they do not have their casting process perfected or they are sloppy people.  Remember, this thread is about resin casters.

Yes, I get that. I was responding to someone saying that "Yes, 3D printing (either at home or someone selling printed parts) is the way of the future, but the quality is still not there."

As for Resin casters, I am looking for a quality caster to do some casting of parts. I have some parts planned that I think would be better done cast than printed due to issues we are facing with printing certain parts.

Currently the Ukraine seems to be leading the way in that area, even with all the current events in the area.  

[Dave Van]

My resin quality was on Modelhaus level. My Nissan IMSA GTO full kit was $75. I did what established coatomers wanted.....I had two master ready to cast but can only do one at a time. They voted on the Nissan over a Roush IMSA Cougar kit. I kinda thought the Nissan would sell better too.

But model car guys can be rather thrifty. I manufactured the kit......then crickets.    I got $75 is kinda high........I took 4 years to sell through my run and by that time I had lost interest in manufacturing resin kits. Had plans for a bunch......but gave up on all of them.

Bottom line is quality alone will not sell resin or 3D.  And as for resin the ROI is slim and return is slow. I know I will not return to making production runs in resin. Thanks

 

IMSA Cougar master I went ahead and built....

 

[PatW]

As a pensioner I have bought a few bits from Shapeways and Jimmy Flintstone over the years. 3D machines and all the supplies to go with it and scratchbuilding with resins are just too expensive.

[Oldmopars]

4 hours ago, Dave Van said:

My resin quality was on Modelhaus level. My Nissan IMSA GTO full kit was $75. I did what established coatomers wanted.....I had two master ready to cast but can only do one at a time. They voted on the Nissan over a Roush IMSA Cougar kit. I kinda thought the Nissan would sell better too.

But model car guys can be rather thrifty. I manufactured the kit......then crickets.    I got $75 is kinda high........I took 4 years to sell through my run and by that time I had lost interest in manufacturing resin kits. Had plans for a bunch......but gave up on all of them.

Bottom line is quality alone will not sell resin or 3D.  And as for resin the ROI is slim and return is slow. I know I will not return to making production runs in resin. Thanks

 

IMSA Cougar master I went ahead and built....

 

Yes, people are finicky. You build/Design what people ask for, then they complain. Price, its not made to fit this rare out of production kit, etc. I have also had, myself, been very interested in a resin body, had the money. But then it took longer than expected to get it done, and by that time my financial situation had changed and I could not longer afford it.  It happens. 

I wish I could do 3d Design of model parts full time. My health is such that I will not be able to do what I do for another 10 years. I just can't see me being able to do design full time, there is just not enough money in it. So, for now it is a part time hobby that adds a little bit to my model budget each month. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Oldmopars said:

...My health is such that I will not be able to do what I do for another 10 years. I just can't see me being able to do design full time, there is just not enough money in it. So, for now it is a part time hobby that adds a little bit to my model budget each month. 

Yup, pretty much the universal problem. It's highly skilled work that doesn't pay great, as is resin casting well.

Far as casting goes, you need to have a broad enough product line so that something's always selling if you want to even think about making a living at it. That takes a whole lot of up-front work in masters and molds, and after all that, the products you like may not have much market appeal.

Then there's the growing problem of being unable to find help that has any kind of physical skills, or interest in learning any.

But out of 330,000,000 people there's not even a few?

Edited March 9, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[89AKurt]

Great topic, read every comment.  There is a common theme, with every endeavor in life, not unique to our hobby.  For example, I am an architectural draftsman, still getting away without using a computer, seen plenty of CAD "blueprints" that were classic GIGO, just because you got a program does not make you Frank Lloyd Wright.  I'm seeing my generation is burned out, dealing with the building department is a major factor for me.  Not seeing many of the next generation setting up shop, and my town is still booming, opportunity is here!   Segue to our hobby, aren't the legacy resin casters focused on subjects the next generation are not into?  How about those who do photo-etch, is the same happening?

I've played with casting resin, without the vacuum chamber and other tools that are required to do quality work.  I had the chance to create an upgrade "kit" for the AMT '72 Chevy pickup, but had issues with ruining a mold.  I know most of those doing this are making slave wages, so I don't complain about the price they want.  I have also learned to get whatever when I see it, don't think about it, just be a hoarder with a stash that will never get built. ?

[Daddyfink]

Just as an FYI, I work at the San Diego Community College and we offer FREE 3-D Printing Classes in our Continuing Ed programs. And yes, we have the latest in 3-D Printers. 

So check out your local Community College and maybe take a class in printing. 

[Richard Bartrop]

When it comes to making parts, most of the time I'd just as soon get out the Evergreen and make my own.  Resin casting is great for duplicating kit parts, but for new people entering the hobby who are going to having to learn all these skills from scratch anyhow, I can see 3D printing looking very attractive, and services like Shapeways making it even more so.  They handle all the making, shipping and billing, and the time not spent doing that can't be spent on designing more 3D files.  You're not going to get rich, but nobody got rich making resin parts either, and you don't have to lay out nearly as much cash to set things up.   If all you want is to share some parts, it sounds like the way to go.

Things change.  Vacuum forming used to be the thing for limited run plane kits, then they all went to resin.  When was the last time anyone offered a car kit in balsa wood?

 

Something my sister and I have found while disposing of mom's estate is that people are living in smaller houses now, and may not have the space to run a business like resin casting, even if they wanted to.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Richard Bartrop

[Calb56]

Just found and read this thread. I'm scared when Norm retires, a lot of old school parts will disappear, for example does anyone "print"  Kinmont disc brakes or even a Harmon Collins magneto for flatheads and already he doesn't offer bodies to speak of anymore.

3D printing, I've spoken with a few and tbh, I can't justify the price of a printer, etc and though there's a lot of cool files on 3D Cult, etc I don't understand much about it. I am not really computer literate, I can Google search and I still use torrents for music (did I think that out loud?).

I'm impressed with what is there in aftermarket parts and some of the good resin casters still working. I also understand the financial end, though I'm not on a "limited" income, I am severely limited to "free" money as opposed to my financial responsibilities. I definitely have to budget out my purchases...

Just my limited experience and opinion and that and $8 will buy you a double mocha.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Calb56

[Mr. Metallic]

As far as 3D printing goes, I don't think the holes forming in the resin market from people retiring or going out of business needs to be filled by everyone going out and getting a 3D printer and becoming proficient in CAD. It only takes a handful of people to start up companies to produce the parts based on their own designs or farming out the design work to others. And that's already happening. there are quite a few printing businesses targeted at our hobby outside of the behemoth that is Shapeways. 

A few that spring to mind immediately are Texas 3D Customs, 3D Scale Parts and IceMan. All have raised the bar for others in our hobby as far as quality of prints, design and customer service. And they are commendably filling the holes left by the traditional resin casters that are going by the wayside. Not to discount the importance of traditional resin casting to our hobby because there is still a strong demand for what they do, especially for bodies. But I don't feel that the sky is falling as resin casters disappear, those holes in the hobby are being ably taken up by the boutique 3D printers.

More power to those of you that want to invest the time and money in doing your own 3D printing, many of you are turning out incredible stuff. But that's not really practical for our hobby on the whole, iMHO

[Texas_3D_Customs]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:54 PM, Oldmopars said:

I agree with Bill. The quality is there if you know who to buy from. I can attest to this as I do design work for a top quality 3D printer. For example, when I design an engine, I use 50+ photos, gaskets scaled to size, measurements from real engines, scans, etc. The latest engine I just finished is as close as you will ever find to the real thing. I know this as I used the real thing to design it. I have the real engine, I measured it, took pictures of it, used scans of gaskets, etc. to get it as perfect as possible. 50+ hours of design went into that one engine alone. Then, Charles prints these engines to the highest level of quality. He knows some VooDoo magic that I can't recreate at home. 

As an example, look at the Slant 6 below. Try to find that detail in either a kit or resin.  Check out Texas 3D Customs, you will see very high quality products are available, and at a reasonable price.  

Also I can scan real engines and make CAD files from them, doesn't get any closer than that, between the two of us the amount of varieties and base engines is growing quite quickly, perhaps too quickly. But I will say you do some fantastic design work, sometimes I question if I should even try anymore.

[Texas_3D_Customs]

On 3/7/2023 at 3:24 PM, peteski said:

Scott, it is not that the quality isn't there -  the problem is when the craftsman resin caster who produced excellent quality casting close shop, there are no qualified fastidious people who could take over their business to keep producing quality castings.  After all, "losing resin manufacturers" is the theme of this thread.

3D printing is a whole new ball of wax.  Even if excellent quality 3D prints were used as masters to cast resin copies, whoever is making those resin casts can still produce inferior bubble-ridden copies if they do not have their casting process perfected or they are sloppy people.  Remember, this thread is about resin casters.

But why would you cast something that's 3D printed that doesn't make sense to me because you can just print more That's like saying hey I've got an aluminum block let me make a mold for it and cast it in iron with the exception of the fact that the cast iron block can hold more boost than an aluminum block but still it doesn't make sense

[Texas_3D_Customs]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:07 PM, Oldmopars said:

Yes, people are finicky. You build/Design what people ask for, then they complain. Price, its not made to fit this rare out of production kit, etc. I have also had, myself, been very interested in a resin body, had the money. But then it took longer than expected to get it done, and by that time my financial situation had changed and I could not longer afford it.  It happens. 

I wish I could do 3d Design of model parts full time. My health is such that I will not be able to do what I do for another 10 years. I just can't see me being able to do design full time, there is just not enough money in it. So, for now it is a part time hobby that adds a little bit to my model budget each month. 

Don't be too sure on that Scott you have to make sure that you understand that right now you haven't hit that big engine with me yet What even with all these smaller engines of me going full-time I'm not saying you're going to make 200 grand a year modeling for me but I think we might be able to overtime say 10 years make it a steady check you could use between that and social security I'm going to have to scale up big time to get to that level though

[Ace-Garageguy]

I guess I should clarify somewhat that I'm more concerned about losing availability of certain products than I am about losing casters per se.

Lets take R&M for instance. His product line caters in large part to "traditional" rod and custom builders, and the quality and resolution of his parts is second to none.

Frankly, I've seen very few printed parts that match the fine surface finish of R&M's offerings. Some, but certainly not all 3D commercially-available parts match his surface quality. Casey's (Forward Resin) parts, also primarily focused on earlier wheel designs, have exceptionally fine surface finish too.

If we were to lose just these two small manufacturers entirely, many trad builders would be screwed. It's kinda doubtful anyone doing 3D would pick up their entire old-school lines and maintain availability of this stuff. And even if they did, it's likely surface finish wouldn't be quite what it is now from these two very capable resin casters.

So again, if you want it, buy it now if you can afford it.