Why is my clear coat coming out textured?

[Milo]

I'm currently spraying Mr. Super Clear gloss coat over 2x cover Rust-Oleum black primer. I'm practicing on spoons right now. My primer coat is smooth, but I sand it anyway, and the result it very nice. The gloss coat when applied in thin dust coats never ends up glossing. Every time I do a heavy wet coat, it covers really glossy and super smooth, but as it dries, dots begin to appear and then when it's fully dried, the gloss is almost all gone and the texture is all there. 

So who knows why this texture is coming out this way, and how can I stop it. I want to get a nice smooth glossy finish, but I can never achieve that.

[Funkychiken]

could be many things like incompatible paint, base coat not gassed out completely, clear coat too hot, clear coat not diluted with thinners, humidity.

test with another base cose manufacturer, or test with leaving the base coat longer keeping everything else the same (like an OFAT experiment)

[robdebie]

6 hours ago, Milo said:

I'm currently spraying Mr. Super Clear gloss coat over 2x cover Rust-Oleum black primer. I'm practicing on spoons right now. My primer coat is smooth, but I sand it anyway, and the result it very nice. The gloss coat when applied in thin dust coats never ends up glossing. Every time I do a heavy wet coat, it covers really glossy and super smooth, but as it dries, dots begin to appear and then when it's fully dried, the gloss is almost all gone and the texture is all there.

A loigical experiment would be to skip the thin dust coats, and do a wet coat straight away. Or as a variation, do one dust coat and a wet coat immediately afterwards.

Rob

Edited December 24, 2023 by robdebie

[Dave G.]

Rustoleum primer is basically enamel primer, various solvents to speed initial dry but still enamel. Enamels have a long cure process. I deemed it unusable for basing models. I tried a can, gave it one shot on a scrap piece and by smell alone I knew it was not lacquer. It smelled the same as every other enamel based primer I ever used and so returned it, since I told the hardware store guy ahead of time ( they have a return policy). You have to be careful what you spray over enamels, not to mention when you do it. Hotter Lacquer in particular wrinkles the stuff all up. I never use enamel primers.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Rustoleum issues seem to be boundless.

Saving a few bucks on material doesn't really make sense when it ruins almost any model you paint, now does it?

Rustoleum products really are primarily aimed at the DIY market who are satisfied with dirt and runs and bubbles on their mailboxes and old outdoor furniture...not modelers who are trying to turn out high-quality work.

Many of us used quality automotive-grade lacquer primers in the past with excellent results, but for a variety of reasons, that is not always an option today.

Use a primer specifically designed for plastic models, and be sure it's fully compatible with your topcoats.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY and ACCURACY

[bobss396]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Rustoleum issues seem to be boundless.

Saving a few bucks on material doesn't really make sense when it ruins almost any model you paint, now does it?

Rustoleum products really are primarily aimed at the DIY market who are satisfied with dirt and runs and bubbles on their mailboxes and old outdoor furniture...not modelers who are trying to turn out high-quality work.

Many of us used quality automotive-grade lacquer primers in the past with excellent results, but for a variety of reasons, that is not always an option today.

Use a primer specifically designed for plastic models, and be sure it's fully compatible with your topcoats.

This is accurate. Rustoleum is terrible paint for model use. 

[Milo]

3 hours ago, robdebie said:

A loigical experiment would be to skip the thin dust coats, and do a wet coat straight away. Or as a variation, do one dust coat and a wet coat immediately afterwards.

Rob

same results

[Milo]

36 minutes ago, bobss396 said:

This is accurate. Rustoleum is terrible paint for model use. 

How come I have seen SO MANY spectacular results purely from rust-oluem paints?

[Ace-Garageguy]

16 minutes ago, Milo said:

How come I have seen SO MANY spectacular results purely from rust-oluem paints?

Because, with enough effort, experimentation, practice, and maybe just pure luck, you can get a great finish from almost anything.

So...how 'bout post a few "spectacular" examples.  

EDIT: If you insist on trying to make Rustoleum or other similar big-box or hardware-store rattlecan paints work well for models, you need to stay within one product line where everything is formulated to work together.

Your problem is very typical of what happens when consumer-grade spray primers are topcoated with something they weren't ever intended to work under.

EDIT 2: Either that, or learn to use automotive grade primers. They generally are safe to use under just about any topcoat, but they have their own issues to master...like crazing the garbage polystyrene kits today are often made of.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[bobthehobbyguy]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

How come I have seen SO MANY spectacular results purely from rust-oluem paints?

There may be some that have some success but there is a constant stream of questions of why did my paint job go back.

 

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Because, with enough effort, experimentation, practice, and maybe just pure luck, you can get a great finish from almost anything.

So...how 'bout post a few "spectacular" examples.  

EDIT: If you insist on trying to make Rustoleum or other similar big-box or hardware-store rattlecan paints work well for models, you need to stay within one product line where everything is formulated to work together.

Your problem is very typical of what happens when consumer-grade spray primers are topcoated with something they weren't ever intended to work under.

EDIT 2: Either that, or learn to use automotive grade primers. They generally are safe to use under just about any topcoat, but they have their own issues to master...like crazing the garbage polystyrene kits today are often made of.

I agree with Bill with putting a lot of effort into making it work may allow you to get good results. However there are much better paints out there and that effort would be better applied to improving other aspects of your mo del building process.

As Bill said you have to stick with one paint brand and type.

Every manufacturer creates there own paint system of products that are designed to work together. Plus they will give additional information like recoat windows if necessary.

Also if changes are made to the paint formulas they are going to make sure that there is compatibility in the paint system

Finally until you master the art of painting stick with paints designed for plastic model kits. Then decide if you want to use automotive paints.

 Building a model with observing the basics like removing parting lines, sink marks, and ejection pins take time. Unless you are going to be building a lot of models you aren't going to be spending that much more on paint.

Edited December 24, 2023 by bobthehobbyguy

[Oldriginal86]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

How come I have seen SO MANY spectacular results purely from rust-oluem paints?

Paint manufactures change the formula as the EPA dictates or as a cost cut. Most times these are not in the consumers favor. What worked in the past no longer an option. Learn from the past and knowledgeable responses above and experiment with the products that are designed for the hobby. One wouldn’t paint a house with Rustoleum even though it would save money, a product designed for the surface would be used. Good luck at don’t get discouraged.

[bobss396]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Because, with enough effort, experimentation, practice, and maybe just pure luck, you can get a great finish from almost anything.

So...how 'bout post a few "spectacular" examples.  

EDIT: If you insist on trying to make Rustoleum or other similar big-box or hardware-store rattlecan paints work well for models, you need to stay within one product line where everything is formulated to work together.

Your problem is very typical of what happens when consumer-grade spray primers are topcoated with something they weren't ever intended to work under.

EDIT 2: Either that, or learn to use automotive grade primers. They generally are safe to use under just about any topcoat, but they have their own issues to master...like crazing the garbage polystyrene kits today are often made of.

I swore that NOBODY could get good results from Testors enamels. I was proven wrong more than once. 

I use a few primers that work with all paints. They are not cheap. 

It also depends on what a modeler will be happy with. Get to the contest table, the paint has to be flawless. Bad paint, they don't get a 2nd look. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Rustoleum issues seem to be boundless.

Saving a few bucks on material doesn't really make sense when it ruins almost any model you paint, now does it?

Rustoleum products really are primarily aimed at the DIY market who are satisfied with dirt and runs and bubbles on their mailboxes and old outdoor furniture...not modelers who are trying to turn out high-quality work.

Many of us used quality automotive-grade lacquer primers in the past with excellent results, but for a variety of reasons, that is not always an option today.

Use a primer specifically designed for plastic models, and be sure it's fully compatible with your topcoats.

I've been trying to convince people to use "good" paints for a long time.

I don't seem to be gaining a lot of ground.

 

Go on some of the Facebook groups and you'll see these kinds of problems over and over again, and almost always attributable to the same products.

The problem is that along with the "smart" guys that will suggest changing the materials that they're using, you'll have almost as many trying to convince them that the paint is not the issue, and that they're getting good results with this cruddy paint.

Of those that suggest staying the course, a few seem to be managing to make it work pretty well, but the rest just have apparently low standards and are okay with mediocre paint jobs.

 

I don't know.

It's frustrating, but maybe it's just time for me to stay out of it and let people continue to struggle until the light bulb finally illuminates for them.

I feel like I'm just wasting my breath.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

[jaymcminn]

3 hours ago, Milo said:

How come I have seen SO MANY spectacular results purely from rust-oluem paints?

I guarantee you will see many more spectacular results from practically any other paint manufacturer.

The 2x stuff you're using is, as pointed out above, basically an enamel. It doesn't like to be coated with lacquer, even if it's had weeks or months to cure. 

Enamels, even "big box store" ones, can produce decent finishes... when properly cured they are rock-hard and non-metallic gloss colors can take polishing well. Most modelers have moved on to synthetic lacquers like Tamiya and Mr. Color for ease of use and not having to wait a month while the paint on a body dries.

I have to ask, why are you trying all these weird combinations of paint and primer when pretty much everybody who responds to your threads is trying to steer you in a direction that works? If you don't have a decent hobby shop nearby you can order Mr Color and Tamiya online as well as any number of companies like Splash Paints, who do a fantastic range of airbrush-ready lacquers. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

3 hours ago, bobss396 said:

I swore that NOBODY could get good results from Testors enamels. I was proven wrong more than once. 

I use a few primers that work with all paints. They are not cheap. 

It also depends on what a modeler will be happy with. Get to the contest table, the paint has to be flawless. Bad paint, they don't get a 2nd look. 

The difference is at least the Testor enamels are designed to be modeling paints.

The biggest problem I see is when a bargin basement paint is used that if it's says it can be used on plastics. There is a wide variety of plastic types and those paints are not necessary disgned to work with them. 

You could use Hobby paints for painting your lawn furniture but you would be disappointed in the results becuase those paints are designed for that application.

[bobss396]

15 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

The difference is at least the Testor enamels are designed to be modeling paints.

The biggest problem I see is when a bargin basement paint is used that if it's says it can be used on plastics. There is a wide variety of plastic types and those paints are not necessary disgned to work with them. 

You could use Hobby paints for painting your lawn furniture but you would be disappointed in the results becuase those paints are designed for that application.

I got a new toilet seat for my 1st floor bathroom recently. The old one was scuffed through from cleaning. I sanded and painted that with Ace Hardware gray to match my 2nd floor bathroom color and installed it. Everyone thinks that it is new. Go figure.

[bobss396]

Painting a model with good results should not be a mystery or a black art. It all starts with good body prep and of course a good primer. I started using Mr. Hobby primers 6 months ago, also a Tamiya white that I like for lighter color paints. I still use Duplicolor primer until I run out of it.  

Then onto the top coats. I detest orange peel. I tend to paint and prime with a heavy hand. Never ever a mist coat, which used to be what every modeler did. I start the initial paint coat with the body held upside down, so I can get the whole inside and the hard-to-cover places like the rockers. 

The paint itself, I have gotten acceptable results from Rustoleum paint. I did a paint job on a neighbor's kid's #3 Earnhardt car as a favor (including a free 10 minutes worth of body work), that came out great. But with a heavy hand as usual. Now I use exclusively Tamiya, Duplicolor, Black Gold and a line of Mopar touch up paints.

I have guys in my club, they monkey around with all sorts of combinations. Like I have always said, like starting the evening drinking with scotch and moving onto wine. YMMV. What some guys call a good paint job would be a trip to the purple pond myself.

[Fat Brian]

Once of the most important skills to learn is where you can cheap out and where you should pay for quality. I use a bunch of Rustoleum paints, but use them for flat stuff like chassis and interiors that don't need a super smooth and shiny finish.

[bobss396]

5 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

Once of the most important skills to learn is where you can cheap out and where you should pay for quality. I use a bunch of Rustoleum paints, but use them for flat stuff like chassis and interiors that don't need a super smooth and shiny finish.

I'll use Ace Hardware paints for chassis parts. Roll cages too. Easy touch up if it needs it. And it is more durable than Tamiya sprays.

[TonyK]

I suck at painting so I stick with good paint such as Tamiya because it makes up for my lack of skill. Testors usually works well for me but I'm not building custom cars or showroom cars so that's good enough.

I do use the cheaper paints such as Rustoleum or Krylon, etc. but only for chassis and interiors.

[oldcarfan]

I hate to dogpile on Rustoleum, but I'm guessing the primer wasn't completely dry or reacted badly, or maybe was just a bad batch. Their quality control is not the best. For my Binford tool box redo, I bought four cans of Brilliant Blue, and two worked fine and the of the other two, one seemed to not have any propellant, and the other came out like silly string. The only differences were the batch numbers were the same on the good cans and the others were different. Anyway, most of my problems seem to come after using one of their products.

For primer I switched to Duplicolor or Plastikote sandable primers a long time ago and they seem to eliminate a lot of issues. From the smell, they are a lacquer base and are compatible with every type of paint I've used and dry fast. I like them because I can sand them using ultra fine sandpapers and they give a great base. Rustoleum paints seem to work best under low humidity moderate temperatures to me, and even then they can still feel tacky.

[stitchdup]

if you really want to use non hobby paints similar to rustoleum, it could be worth trying plasti-kote enamels. decent range of colours and they work reasonably well. 

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

Rule #1. Don't use Rustoleum. There is no rule #2. -RRR

[CabDriver]

I agree on the Rustoleum comments (I’ve had so many bad cans of their primer that I could’ve painted a battleship…if they hadn’t clogged) BUT I’ve found their High Lustre Lacquer clear (with a black chair on the can) is a GREAT product.  

The cans I’ve received and used recently have a new, larger, cap which I’ve found lays down a really nice wet coat of clear, and with careful application (couple of mist coats to start, heavier coats followed by a wet sand and then a gloss coat) I can get a nice finish right out of the can.  

I’m glad I tried it - it’s my go-to clear now for about everything that needs to be shiny, it isn’t expensive and it’s about the only product of theirs I still use 

[bobss396]

21 hours ago, TonyK said:

I suck at painting so I stick with good paint such as Tamiya because it makes up for my lack of skill. Testors usually works well for me but I'm not building custom cars or showroom cars so that's good enough.

I do use the cheaper paints such as Rustoleum or Krylon, etc. but only for chassis and interiors.

Painting takes practice. If I take a few months off, I get rusty and have to be careful when I start again. But it all comes back pretty quickly.