Are model kits toys. ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:52 PM, JollySipper said:

I can't wait to find out, so I'll know whether or not I can roll mine around on the floor while making engine noises!

It's never stopped me (even though I'll argue all day long that "scale models" and "toys" are two entirely different things).

See...I've learned to hold two opposing ideas in my head simultaneously.

It helps when dealing with much of the way things are in the modren world.  

Edited November 29, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[slusher]

When I was a teenager and in my early 20’s I thought so  Quit building but after six years I began building again.  Everyone is welcome to their own opinion .  If some think models are toys I am a big old happy kid.

Edited November 29, 2024 by slusher
Changed it

[1930fordpickup]

For our fellow toy hobbyist to the North. They sure are toys when it comes to taxes. When they came out that is what they were considered. 

[rattle can man]

Honestly, it doesn't matter. Life is too short to worry about what others think. If government wants to classify them as toys and exempt them from taxes, all the better for those who enjoy them. What matters is that we enjoy building them.  

 

[Bugatti Fan]

And what Harry has just posted is the crux of the matter !

[peteski]

On 11/28/2024 at 4:00 AM, Bugatti Fan said:

One has to ask the question why it is that most manufacturers initially market their model kits at International Toy Fairs

 

Model railroad manufacturers also display their models at those toy fairs, and we all know how expensive that hobby is, and how elaborate adult-built model train layouts can get.

Also remember the warnings usually present on model packaging about the item not recommended to kids under 14 (or whatever that age is nowadays), and also about difficulty level (again that goes back to the age thing).    Do teenagers over 14 play with toys?  Do 59 year old people play with toys? I guess they can.

I guess it all goes back to definitions of toys and scale models.  I guess a scale model can be a toy just as some toys can be a scale models.

Edited November 30, 2024 by peteski

[Brian Austin]

Funnily enough, model trains these days are packed with electronics.  There are smoke and steam effects, along with sounds.  I suppose for most modelers these features are most realistic, but for me they cross the line back into toy territory.  (I'm fine with bare bones trains that don't make noise.)  😄

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Brian Austin said:

Funnily enough, model trains these days are packed with electronics.  There are smoke and steam effects, along with sounds.  I suppose for most modelers these features are most realistic, but for me they cross the line back into toy territory.  (I'm fine with bare bones trains that don't make noise.)  😄

And funnily enough, I agree in principle.

Though DCC effects are now pretty advanced, the tiny tinny little speakers can't help but make locomotives sound like toys, even with startup and compressor and bell and brake sound sequences.

But the clickity-clack of wheels passing over track joints still sounds like a real train...just a very small one.  

Edited December 1, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy

[Kenmojr]

Model cars and all plastic kits IMHO are adult toys...:-)

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just now, Kenmojr said:

Model cars and all plastic kits IMHO are adult toys...:-)

 

So are hot-rods and Lambos and Porsches and lotsa private aircraft and boats too. 

[Bainford]

Rather than toys, they are my therapy. I propose that kits are therefore medical supplies, their purchase is a medical expense, and should be covered by my healthcare plan. I'll be calling my Member of Parliament in the morning to sort out the details.

[Brian Austin]

I came across am old book from the same archive I posted from earlier that was about activities for handicapped people to share with able-bodied folk, and that included building model kits.

[Brian Austin]

5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

And funnily enough, I agree in principle.

Though DCC effects are now pretty advanced, the tiny tinny little speakers can't help but make locomotives sound like toys, even with startup and compressor and bell and brake sound sequences.

But the clickity-clack of wheels passing over track joints still sounds like a real train...just a very small one.  

All this advancement in hobby technology reminded me of the toy cars and whatnot that came out in the '80s or '90s that made noise with the press of a button.  Clever, but I'd bet the parents tired of them.  🙂  They seemed loud enough in the Toys R Us aisles.

The line is blurry with me, as I've converted 3-rail toys such as Lionel's classic prewar UP RR M-10000 streamliner train to 2-rail.  I've got tight curves so that adds to the charm.  If I want scenery and broad curves I can join the local club. 

Toy trains and scale model railroads pretty much accomplish the same thing.  They make people smile.

Edited December 1, 2024 by Brian Austin

[Bugatti Fan]

Bill's last post reminded me of that old expression 'Boys and their toys'.

In most cases the toys get bigger as we get older, but as model makers we still enjoy our little ones too !

Edited December 1, 2024 by Bugatti Fan

[PatW]

On 11/24/2024 at 10:24 AM, Bugatti Fan said:

I think that classifying model kits as toys causes some model builders to consider it as being insulting.  Why ?

Is it because there may be a perception by a great many people outside model making thinking that the hobby is still not a grown up activity?

Same old story. Same old question.  When asked what your hobby being pursued is and answering 'Plastic model car kit building', the response is often 'Oh, I used to stick together Airfix kits when I was a kid.'

I'm afraid that stigma will not go away.  Best ignore the perceptions and just get on with enjoying what you enjoy doing in your spare time. People outside the hobby will never understand it unless you go into great detail to explain it to them, and on the other hand there are those that you will just be wasting your time trying to explain it to anyway !

 

When my youngest son bought over his then girlfriend (now wife) She said that she was told although I was in my then late 60's that I still played with toys! But I notice all the time that people who sit around after retiring with no hobbies can't understand the idea of having hobbies at all. Our local 'Men in Sheds' has loads of men who only had a job that took over their lives, but now can't even drive a screw into a piece of wood or even change a light bulb! As a 'Practical Man' I've built kit cars, built log cabins, wired new light fittings (after being trained by my late electrician brother) laid crazy paving, built garden walls and laid wood floors (although I can't now that my knees won't stand it). Anything practical interests me and I must try it!  Like I still build model kits at 76 when I started at 8 years old with Airfix WW2 fighter planes and tube glue, yuk!

Edited December 1, 2024 by PatW

[Falcon Ranchero]

I never saw them as toys; even though I bought a few from Toys R Us; even when in 2012 when I was a wee lad my dad was trying to show me how to build a kit via the one we got him for his birthday that year which was Revell's 1941 Chevy truck. I'd sit for maybe 5 minutes and then be off playing with hotwheels (which are toys). So that truck went back in the box half complete for years. Even looking through the box of unbuilt kits my dad had I never thought of them as toys per say. Then in 2021 when covid put us to online learning, there was less to do and so I finished that '41 Chevy truck and by then caught the kit bug. So no I don't believe they're toys; most say ages 13 or 14+ anyway so they wouldn't be classified as childish toys.

[Musclecarbuilder]

26 minutes ago, Falcon Ranchero said:

I never saw them as toys; even though I bought a few from Toys R Us; even when in 2012 when I was a wee lad my dad was trying to show me how to build a kit via the one we got him for his birthday that year which was Revell's 1941 Chevy truck. I'd sit for maybe 5 minutes and then be off playing with hotwheels (which are toys). So that truck went back in the box half complete for years. Even looking through the box of unbuilt kits my dad had I never thought of them as toys per say. Then in 2021 when covid put us to online learning, there was less to do and so I finished that '41 Chevy truck and by then caught the kit bug. So no I don't believe they're toys; most say ages 13 or 14+ anyway so they wouldn't be classified as childish toys.

I did the same thing when I was little! My dad had bought an MPC Dukes of Hazzard General Lee at Hobby Lobby. (it was 40% off) He brought it home and decided to start building it, he tried to get me to work on it with him, but after about 5 minutes of "Helping" him work on the car. I would end up running off with the body, interior tub, and chassis, making the car part of my hotwheels, 1/24 diecast, and Lincoln log junkyard. He'd always wait til' I went to bed to grab the model from my junkyard. 

He actually finished it when I was 6 or 7, and put it in a plastic case. Its still sitting on his office desk today. He took it to a show a year or so ago and took 3rd place with it. I was shocked because the model has a fair share of wear from when I used to play with it. (I would take it out of its case while he was at work.) 

All that to say that models are definitely not toys, because every time I would play with that car, something would break, which would end in my dad coming home from work and spending an hour or so carefully fixing everything I had broken.

Edited December 2, 2024 by Musclecarbuilder
Typo

[Ace-Garageguy]

I never viewed building models as "playing with toys" even as a kid, especially after seeing some of the beautiful aircraft my old man built. He was a brush-painter extraordinaire, and could do one with almost invisible brush strokes. I still vividly remember an all yellow P-47 he did as a trainer, though whether there ever was such a thing...I don't know. But the paint looked sprayed.

Most of my peers, however, saw models as toys to sloppily stick together and then smash or blow up with firecrackers or set fire to...which I never understood.

Today, frankly, I'm still a little defensive when somebody refers to my model building and railroading as "playing with toys", but at this point in the game, I've finally realized that what someone thinks of ANYTHING I do matters as much as a snowflake in jello.

Like some others here, I've never understood people who had no hobbies that require action and direct participation. 

For instance, watching other people play sports is fine if that floats your boat, but I don't consider being an observer, even if you get emotionally involved with whatever team's outcome, to be a "hobby". Entertainment, yes. Pastime, yes. Fun...if it is for you, sure. Hobby...no. Then again, if you're really into sports and keep up with players and stats obsessively, as that takes more than just passive watching, it's probably a hobby. And computer gaming? Golf? Absolutely. They require active participation. Not my particular choices (though I do have a set of left-handed clubs), but I understand how they can both be very involving and enjoyable.

Still, the only people I really enjoy interacting with are those who have physical three-dimensional creative hobbies, even if they're different from mine. I can always learn something new from a guy who works out, or does woodwork, or builds boats, or custom computers, or whatever.

I like being around people who are "passionate" about what they do, and I like seeing what they produce with their own hands and minds and effort. The best bodyman/painter I've ever known is also an accomplished car and bike builder, dabbles in woodworking (now he's turning gorgeous wooden pen barrels on a 100-year-old lathe), and he just built his daughter a very cool, very large model gingerbread house just because she was having a pre-Thanksgiving party. He makes all kinds of things that have nothing to do with cars too, and uses the skills he's developed professionally.

But back to the topic: if you enjoy building models, don't let some foolish, uninformed opinion or passing comment bother you. Ever. What they don't know can't hurt you.  

 

 

Edited December 2, 2024 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[Bainford]

5 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

But back to the topic: if you enjoy building models, don't let some foolish, uninformed opinion or passing comment bother you. Ever.  

But Bill, it's the Canadian federal government that is making this decision. The government, Bill! Our steadfast and fearless leaders. The omnipotent and all-knowing. Surely, they must know if kits are toys... don't they?

Bill?

Don't they?

😉

.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 minutes ago, Bainford said:

But Bill, it's the Canadian federal government that is making this decision. The government, Bill! Our steadfast and fearless leaders. The omnipotent and all-knowing. Surely, they must know if kits are toys... don't they?

Bill?

Don't they?

😉

.

Well, if you put it that way...  

[niteowl7710]

This existential crisis over your shared childhoods is fun reading and all, but doesn't Customs Canada have an online catalog that covers the classification and taxation of imports? Because I would think that would be the answer to the original base question. Canada doesn't have a kit manufacturer, so they have to import every kit up there and I don't see how you could change the taxation status of a product once it's in-country.

For what it's worth Model Kits are classified as their own item, but full under the General Category of Toys as far as the U.S. Customs is concerned when determining import duties and taxes.

[Bainford]

3 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

This existential crisis over your shared childhoods is fun reading and all, but doesn't Customs Canada have an online catalog that covers the classification and taxation of imports? Because I would think that would be the answer to the original base question. Canada doesn't have a kit manufacturer, so they have to import every kit up there and I don't see how you could change the taxation status of a product once it's in-country.

I detect a distinct hint of logic in this post. The government will have no truck with that.

[peter31a]

Well. We kinda have an answer, sort of, from one Ontario hobby retailer.

 

[rattle can man]

I have to say that I don't get how anyone can just sit and do nothing. As for the question at hand, I built a radio with my father when I was a kid. I actually asked him if we could. So radios must be toys too.

[iamsuperdan]

As an FYI, model kits are officially toys!

No sales tax here on model kits. but there is tax on paints and supplies.

Not confusing for retailers at all! 🤪

So it looks like until mid-February, we can save a few bucks in Canada when buying kits.

Fun fact, we also get a tax break on restaurants, most groceries, beer, wine, coolers, and video games. I know people that won't be paying tax on basically anything while this is in effect!