What Irked You Today?

[Harry P.]

Well, of course a model kit could be designed, engineered, manufactured, and packaged here in the US. It's not exactly rocket science.

But the fact is, it isn't done here anymore because it's a lot cheaper to have it done over there. Plain and simple.

The bottom line rules.

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

The bottom line rules.

That's always the old party line, and shows that nobody even bothered to actually READ what I've said. They just react.

A brief synopsis of my position is this: A MOTIVATED COMPANY CAN FIND A WAY TO DO IT HERE  COST COMPETITIVELY.

But to turn things around will take more effort on someone's part than just doing the same-old same-old and spouting constantly that there's no point in even trying because it's just too expensive.

One example: GENERAL ELECTRIC is bringing back manufacturing of appliances and water heaters. When's the last time you saw any of those stamped "Made in America"?

 

Edited June 30, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tom Geiger]

Bill, nobody is arguing against USA manufacturing.  In fact Japanese and Korean car companies have figured out how to build some pretty decent quality cars here! 

In fact I'll give you a head start.  J. Lloyd is a company that has done model kit manufacturing.  They were the company that Round 2 bought all the old Lindberg / Pyro tooling from.  When you see those kits in  Round 2 packaging, it says "Made in USA" so I'm figuring that J. Lloyd is still making those under contract for them.  That would be turn key sealed kits, boxed and shipped.

I'm also fairly certain that they produced the Johan model runs for Okey Spalding.  Why? Because we know that Johan molds were the small variety that run on certain older molding machines.  Back when those molds were being shopped around, it was said that the big companies didn't want them because they couldn't be run on the larger modern machines. This is all a theory,  I'd love for someone who actually knows to jump in and provide actual facts.

So...  we have someone capable of producing turn key kits in the USA.  What's keeping this from happening?  First, they probably would have to buy all new modern injection molding equipment to run the AMT / MPC / Revell / Monogram size tools.  And that could be a million dollar investment.  So let's say they can produce a comparable quality kit at the same cost, even 20% more (which should offset the cost of transatlantic shipping).  Why not?   Probably volume.   And I'd love to know the answers.  I'm as curious engineering wise as you Bill!

Edited June 30, 2016 by Tom Geiger

[Ace-Garageguy]

Bill, nobody is arguing against USA manufacturing.  In fact Japanese and Korean car companies have figured out how to build some pretty decent quality cars here! 

I don't mean to seem rude or argumentative Tom, but that's EXACTLY what the respondents who just give the old standard knee-jerk reaction that "it's too expensive here" are doing.

If it used to be "too expensive" for GE to make appliances and water heaters here, and now it's not...well, doesn't that tell you something?

Either costs are rising for overseas / outsourced production or GE's management has trimmed some fat and found a way to make US production work...or both.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tom Geiger]

If it used to be "too expensive" for GE to make appliances and water heaters here, and now it's not...well, doesn't that tell you something?

Either costs are rising for overseas / outsourced production or GE's management has trimmed some fat and found a way to make US production work...or both.

I'd like nothing more! We are on the same team! Part of why the US lost it's advantage was that we bombed the heck out of Japanese and European factories during WWII.  Then under the Marshall Plan, we rebuilt those country's infrastructure with new manufacturing plants.  Sad fact was that the USA was still running 1900 era factories that now had to compete with state of the art factories built at no cost to the operators. That was the start of the decline.

So with GE, it's good that they are moving some manufacturing back to the USA. No doubt they have found the advantage of building brand new factories with the latest equipment.  Probably more robotic than a people process.  And I can tell you first hand that GE appliances sucked wind big time.  I made the mistake of buying a complete appliance package for my New Jersey house, and every piece of it has had issues. Their refrigerator failed within a year.  So part of their decision is probably one of not getting the quality they needed offshore.  But there is a lot more volume and profit in high volume consumer goods than model car kits!

[Harry P.]

That's always the old party line, and shows that nobody even bothered to actually READ what I've said. They just react.

A brief synopsis of my position is this: A MOTIVATED COMPANY CAN FIND A WAY TO DO IT HERE  COST COMPETITIVELY.

So why don't they?

[Mike_G]

 

So with GE, it's good that they are moving some manufacturing back to the USA.

Maybe they'll actually pay some taxes

[charlie8575]

Not much of an opportunity for me. I'm sure I could make it work, or die trying...and for what? Probably not even a "thank you".

I say things the entrenched "experts" don't want to hear, and they don't often pay for anything that rocks the gravy train boat.

However, I WILL continue researching and talking with suppliers as time permits.

But here's part of the reality of the situation. I'm hardly alone in my opinions.

http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/why-donald-trump-is-wrong-about-manufacturing-jobs-and-china

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-flips-the-script-on-jobs-reshoring-finally-outpaced-offshoring-in-2014-2015-05-01

Granted, manufacturing has changed dramatically over the past few decades, and we may never see the JOBS in manufacturing that once were the mainstay of the middle-class, but manufacturing as a viable and cost-competitive industry may very well return.

But by all means, everyone believe what you've been told. Manufacturing in America is impossible. Period.

And don't forget, the Earth is flat.

 

 

And right now, there is a trend- albeit a small one. Round 2 is producing most of the Lindberg stuff in the plant in Michigan JLLoyd had, which is thoroughly modern, cost-efficient, and has enough machinery available to lease out time, thus driving costs down more.

I'm looking at doing exactly this, Bill. It's still a bit of a way off, but I am very seriously working towards it. I might have to do a little in-country outsourcing, at least initially, but I do agree with you, and this is after hundreds of hours of reading, talking with management at molding plants and machinists- we can do it.

Sometime 'fore much longer, I'd like to swap phone numbers. As Tom said- you are a smart guy, and I'd like to discuss a few of my ideas with you.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

The race to lower costs has resulted in much higher overall costs for all consumers. How did I arrive at that conclusion? Look at the durability of what is produced these days! Have you seen price reductions on tools that were once made in USA that are now manufactured in China?  NOPE ! That costs savings will be used to offset warranty costs as a result of Chinese production. And most likely add to the companies' bottom line!

It's great that Company Z has a lower cost, but wages aren't the only component in their cost to manufacture products. This applies to many different categories of products and companies that previously tolerated low to zero defects are now tolerant of "some" defects as long as the landed cost remains "low". 

Companies that once took pride in their quality and addressed premature failure on parts now just listen to the customer complain and in some cases, offer compensation as a form of hush money. They KNOW what the problem is, but it remains cheaper and easier to let things be instead of fixing it. Engineers today are more concerned with cost savings and cheaper methods than superior product designs and lasting quality.

I would like to say that things will get better before they get worse, but experience has taught me otherwise.

Thank you, Mike!

Case in point: it's gotten so bad with so many parts, that my mechanic will now only use used parts unless it's not practical or available. He's found so many of the new parts are so horrible, that it's tying up his shop with do-it-agains, and the parts stores aren't standing behind anything, either.

Case in point: Took five starters to finally get a good one for my Buick. And the fifth one was a used one. That one held up just fine.

Second case: Late June, early July, 2014, we had to replace the radiator in Mom's Lumina- OE radiator, got 16 years and the better part of 190,000 miles out of it. No complaints. Rarely makes sense to use a used radiator, so Gene went to one of his vendors, got a decent (by reputation) radiator (I think it was a Modine,) and put it in.

As it happened, my car was in for a broken flexplate, and dad's was dead again, so the Lumina was the only operating car in the family. I had an interview out in Springfield the next morning- about an hour and 20-30 minutes. Dad and I grabbed the car at my mother's apartment while and we went so I could go grab a new shirt for my interview. We pulled into the parking lot, and smelled coolant, and thought it was the Windstar blowing its head-gaskets.

Wrong. It was the one-week old radiator. We had the car towed back, went to my mom's apartment. She was staying with my grandmother, so Dad and I camped out there. We had no other car at the moment, so we grabbed dinner and went back. Ended up renting a car the next day, and I was lucky- I literally got the last car Enterprise had. Dad talked to Gene that afternoon. Didn't charge us for the radiator or materials (seeing it was all warranty,) and cut his labor rate in half to compensate for the trouble.

These bad products- be it car pars, coffee pots, models, or anything else, really do cost us all more in money, time, inconvenience and anything else you can think of.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

 

One example: GENERAL ELECTRIC is bringing back manufacturing of appliances and water heaters. When's the last time you saw any of those stamped "Made in America"?

 

Well, that was the case.

I was talking with one of our local appliance dealers a few weeks back poking for a new fridge.

Turns out GE just sold its appliance division to Danby, the big Chinese company, and, at least from what Jeff Stausekelis was told, they're going to shutter all the American plants and move it all to China so they can take a big tax loss or something.

This is all part of Jeff Imelt's (GE's Chairman) plan to turn the company away from consumer manufacturing altogether. Today, I just heard GE was removed from the "too big to fail" list because of all these divestitures. On the one hand, that exempts them from government artificial life support, which I'm okay with, but it also makes it possible for unscrupulous management to more easily screw investors and employees, which I'm not okay with.

Right now, Frigidaire makes almost all its parts here, and that won't be changing. Speed Queen is the only all-American washer/dryer left. Whrilpool and its brands use a mix of American, Chinese, Canadian and Mexican parts, with most assembly done in America. Bosch's dishwashers are made entirely in America, all parts included, and that will soon include their ranges and laundry sets, too. Bosch has been happy enough that they're concentrating all white goods manufacturing for the planet in North Carolina.

Charlie Larkin

[Harry P.]

Idiots here are already shooting off fireworks!

It's July 1, morons! Hold your fire...

[Roadrunner]

Idiots here are already shooting off fireworks!

It's July 1, morons! Hold your fire...

It's an annual occurrence. I've heard stuff being shot off here since last Friday.

[cobraman]

Cease fire !!!   : )

[Rob Hall]

Hearing fireworks here now...

[Mike_G]

Every 4th of July my neighborhood is rife with drunken morons who seem bent on burning someone's house down with their illegal fireworks- it's like a war zone here.

I used to enjoy this holiday, now I can't wait for it to be over.

[Harry P.]

Another thing... here in Chicago they have the "official" lakefront fireworks display on July 3rd.

Why???

[High octane]

Another thing... here in Chicago they have the "official" lakefront fireworks display on July 3rd.

Why???

We have dumb mules here lighting off fireworks after 11 p.m. on the Fourth, like no one wants to sleep at night right?

[Joe Handley]

Every 4th of July my neighborhood is rife with drunken morons who seem bent on burning someone's house down with their illegal fireworks- it's like a war zone here.

I used to enjoy this holiday, now I can't wait for it to be over.

Last 4th, Mom was in a nursing home a ways from home and when we went to leave and head for home and as I was heading towards street, I noticed Dad was out and checking tires, turns out one of them was having difficulties holding air (turns out it was a magically loosened schreider valve) and we had to stop and swap it out for the spare in a gas station parking lot maybe about a 1/4 of the way home.  The whole time we were working on changing that tire out, there were people setting off small bombs......err, fireworks for almost the whole time in the neighborhood right behind the station.  Fortunately, neither one of up have issues with war induced PTSD because it sounded like a freakin' war zone!  I feel bad for any Vets that live in that area, as it was really starting to piss me the heck off!

[Joe Handley]

Welp, Mom is back in thd hospital as of today, although atleast it's been 7 months since her last visit...........hope it's nothing worse than dehydration, again.

[Tom Geiger]

When my Tracker was brand new, it was sitting in my driveway and the yahoo across the street was setting off fireworks in the middle of the street.  The next morning I find what's left of a burned up projectile fused into my convertible roof.  Of course he denied responsibility or involvement... yea, he was setting off fireworks but so was the whole world so it wasn't one of his...  

I was fortunate that a friend of mine worked for a Chevy dealer and brought me home a free  "take off"  that had no zip in back window.  My window was fine so that worked well.
 

[Harry P.]

What the hell?

Fireworks going off all night, constantly. People, today is July 2! Not 4!

When did Independence day become a week-long affair?

[blunc]

are you sure it's fireworks, could be attempted homicide.  

[Harry P.]

are you sure it's fireworks, could be attempted homicide.  

Yeah, around here, it could be.

[slusher]

Just stopped here at 12.30 am. Been going on since Thursday the 30th..

[Xingu]

Around my house, all the illegal fireworks are set off by the police that live in my neighborhood. They are usually the fireworks confiscated last year from all the other criminals in the area. Does not pay to call the cops on the cops. I just hope they stop setting them off at a reasonable time. Last night there were done before 11:00pm.