Car manufacturers bailing out of Oz...

[Harry P.]

Now only Toyota is still left...

http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1089074_the-death-of-an-auto-industry-ford-gm-pull-out-of-australia-toyota-may-follow?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=news

[Jantrix]

That is a real shame. There has been a lot of great vehicles come out of Holden and Ford, down under. It's sad to see.

[Eshaver]

The E U is in real finical trouble . I'm also told that Finland and several other Scandinavian countries are also in trouble as well. My financial people in England gave me this in an e-mail just this morning . Oh Ben Burnakee will also be giving a report on our own finances probably Thursday . I can already see wall Street numbers headed SOUTH !

[Frank]

GM and Ford are pulling out of Australia because they have gouged as money out of our Government as they can.

[Harry P.]

GM and Ford are pulling out of Australia because they have gouged as money out of our Government as they can.

And they say they're pulling out because of the extremely high cost of manufacturing there. I guess there is always two sides to every story.

[slusher]

IF GM shrinks anymore they will be the smallest.

[lordairgtar]

So John Abbot promises to work with Toyota to keep them in Australia? So what did he do for Holden and Ford? Not a damned thing apparently.

[iBorg]

No Holden? Where will GM get good ideas?

Mike

[Joe Handley]

Hopefully they'll get jobs here in the States or in Europe.

[Roncla]

I'm wondering what the future will be for the V8 Supercar series. With Ford and Holden both closing the traditional rivalry on the track and amongst the fans will be lost.

http://www.v8supercars.com.au/

[peekay]

GM made a similar announcement about Opel a few years ago but didn't actually pull out. If memory serves (which it no longer does) this was seen as a tactic to garner better deals with the German government and trade unions.

Like most Aussies and Kiwis, I can hardly imagine a world without Holdens. But then again, Americans have seen much bigger brands disappear in recent years.

[ZTony8]

I remember reading items over the years about the low quality level of the Australian built products coming into this country.Perhaps this was a factor in the decisions.

[charlie8575]

Considering that Australia mandates a very high minimum wage by industry in a e-Mail newsletter I used to get, and as a result, between that and their very strong currency, I can absolutely see production costs going into orbit.

If I recall correctly, Australia's basic minimum wage worked out to around AUS$15-18/hour, which works out to about USD$20-25/hour. It was one of the reasons why a hamburger at a restaurant that would be equivalent to say, Applebee's or TGI Fridays was retailing for about $26 American.

For those wondering if we should increase the minimum wage, I point to this as a cautionary tale. Sure, we'd like to see people make more money, but you need to rely on yourself to do that. Move up at your job, do it well and earn promotions, get some kind of specialized training or education, and some additional earnings should follow.

An increase in the minimum wage will generally exert upward pressure on other professions, and if enough upward pressure is exerted, things like this can be the result.

Charlie Larkin

[Ramcharger]

GM earned $5 billion (with a "B") and Ford earned $6.5 Billion in 2012, GM's CEO made $7.7 million, Ford's CEO pay FELL to $21 million this year. Please stop the high minimum wage and taxes are putting them out of business. They are making tactical decisions to get a better deal from the Gov't and/or workers, or maybe they just aren't selling as many cars down under as they used to, or a new trade agreement will allow them to be made cheaper in a 3rd world country.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Ramcharger

[mustang1989]

I have worked for General Motors for a while now and I will say that there are a few things coming from Holden that were decent from a driver stand point. All of the following is dealing with just GM alone. I can't really speak for Ford or Toyota.

Without Holden, the Camaro would have probably still been on the drawing board or not nearly as good(with the past efforts). The Pontiac G8 would have never been (and folks these things really suck to work on but are a family car/ performance car that is halfway practical AND hauls "A"!!) almost forgot the G8 is Holden based too-------Jeez!!. All of this is my opinion here but before Camaro all we had was stuff like a Corvette (which are awesome cars but the "John Q" majority has a hard time coming up with 65+K for a non-family practical 2 seater) the G8 (which Pontiac got flushed down the toilet in 09 so one less Holden platform), Buick?..........(well not yet anyway)......., trucks with 400+ hp but weigh as much as a tank, but look good. The Trailblazer SS was a good idea but the same bodied SSR was a friggin joke( from a sales standpoint). The Cobalt SS is ok for a four banger which sold decent and the new SS from Chevrolet has got potential but again has the Holden name involved. Maybe this new CEO of GM has got an idea to put the folks at GM hard to work and come up with a desirable looking sports car that's affordable and built here in America. Let me say that again................................BUILT HERE IN AMERICA. Again my opinion but if its got a Chevrolet badge or any other domestic badge on it my feeling is it should be BUILT HERE. Our truck line is pretty solid and they are built here. Why shouldn't our performance car offerings be the same way? Again the Corvette is a great and proven car but it's considered an exotic and the John Q on average, 1.) Can't afford it and 2.) Can't use it.

Honestly I think we should drop Holden because we Americans are some pretty smart folks. I'm sure we can come up with a good plan to build an affordable sports car we can call our own. Just my

Edited December 19, 2013 by mustang1989

[my80malibu]

Considering that Australia mandates a very high minimum wage by industry in a e-Mail newsletter I used to get, and as a result, between that and their very strong currency, I can absolutely see production costs going into orbit.

If I recall correctly, Australia's basic minimum wage worked out to around AUS$15-18/hour, which works out to about USD$20-25/hour. It was one of the reasons why a hamburger at a restaurant that would be equivalent to say, Applebee's or TGI Fridays was retailing for about $26 American.

For those wondering if we should increase the minimum wage, I point to this as a cautionary tale. Sure, we'd like to see people make more money, but you need to rely on yourself to do that. Move up at your job, do it well and earn promotions, get some kind of specialized training or education, and some additional earnings should follow.

An increase in the minimum wage will generally exert upward pressure on other professions, and if enough upward pressure is exerted, things like this can be the result.

Charlie Larkin

Good point, tell that to those on there way to thier 3rd job.

[Harry P.]

No matter what you believe politically, or in regards to what the minimum wage should be, etc., you have to agree that if a company thinks it can make their product as a lower cost elsewhere, they're going to do so. That's just plain common sense. Yes, the bottom line is what counts for any business... and if you believe in the concepts of free enterprise and free market capitalism, you can't demonize a company for making a move that improves their bottom line! Yes, there is always "collateral damage" when an employer packs up and leaves... some people will lose their jobs and there's no way to avoid that. But think of it this way: does any company have a duty or obligation to set up operations in your country and provide jobs to your people? Or do the employees owe the company a "thank you" for operating in their area and offering them a job?

[mustang1989]

Well I got to thinking about it later and youre right about the money. I'm not going to put this conversation on a more personal level because I work for GM and thats not what the thread was intended for so I'll just say this. Doing things in the interest of money only has it's consequences sometimes. For the sake of staying on topic, we put a Chevrolet badge on a car that mostly aint made here in the name of the almighty dollar. I'm just looking forward to seeing what the good ol' boys here can do with that same dollar they've made.

[espo]

Very sad to hear this. I had heard about Ford's leaving but not G.M's Holden. I see were someone suggested that Holden had some poor quality issues. I wouldn't really know about that. I can say this. I have a '05 Pontiac GTO that I purchased new. I believe that is sold down under as a Monero. I have driven mostly GM cars and trucks. Early to mid '50's Fords and late model Chrysler products. None including our '10 Dodge Charger RT with AWD can hold a candle to the GTO in fit or finish. As for performance, this is basically a Corvette (LS2 & 6 speed independent rear suspension) with a back seat. There are a lot of good cars for many different manufactures, but quality is not an issue with Holden.

[Bennyg]

No Holden? Where will GM get good ideas?

Mike

Lol. Well said. Australia had a great deal to do with the engineering of the camaro.

Another point should be noted. I saw on our local australian news that all the German automotive industry is subsidised by their government. Food for thought.

Ben

[lordairgtar]

I have seen a few of the G8s, GTOs and Chevy SSs. All based on Holden cars. All were very nicely done. The fit and finish was up there with other premium cars. I've seen Aussie Fords in this country sold as a Mercury Capri sports car, itself based on an older Mazda platform similar to the Miata. Not a bad car either. I've had the opportunity to view classic Aussie Fords, Chryslers, and Holdens here owned by ex-pats....all very nicely done.

[Joe Handley]

Lol. Well said. Australia had a great deal to do with the engineering of the camaro.

Another point should be noted. I saw on our local australian news that all the German automotive industry is subsidised by their government. Food for thought.

Ben

I've heard the same of Japanese manufacturers too. Seem to remember that Iacocca talking about agreements between Mistubishi, and the Japanese banks and government that should have put him in jail here in America if he had tried that while at Ford or Chrysler.

[kruleworld]

GM and Ford are pulling out of Australia because they have gouged as money out of our Government as they can.

Neither GM or Ford are pulling out of australia, they are just killing their locally built models. they'll be fully imported models (everything except commodore and Falcon was already fully imported).

Edited December 20, 2013 by kruleworld

[lordairgtar]

Neither GM or Ford are pulling out of australia, they are just killing their locally built models. they'll be fully imported models (everything except commodore and Falcon was already fully imported).

Don't forget the Monaro.

[checkmate]

Toyota wont stay in Australia as a manufacturer if Holden closes, they wont be able to get parts off several of the local suppliers who will go under due to the drop in their business by Ford and Holden going.

Australia does have a higher minimum hourly rate than the states no doubt there, the estimate of $15-18 is pretty close, the estimate of $26 for a hamburger is miles off. A cheeseburger at McDonalds is about $2.95 and a decent hamburger with the lot at a café will set you back about $6-7.

The strength of our dollar has affected our manufacturing industry heaps in recent years, as for the quality issues, well I think our cars are better built and to tighter tolerances the most of the US ones, and the Australian Standards for most products would be higher so whoever wrote the article saying it was low quality obviously didn't have a clue what they were writing about.

It'll be sad to see Holden close it's manufacturing plants here, it'll be the end of an Aussie icon.