Ace-Garageguy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 5 hours ago, webestang said: FYI..... The sticker price for my 99 V6 (w/auto) Mustang was $18,500......$27,649 in todays dollar. A new base V6 (w/auto) 2017 Mustang is $26,380. That's interesting, but I don't actually know many people whose incomes have kept pace with "today's dollar". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete J. Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 11 hours ago, espo said: You might consider a utility trailer if your loads are going to be around 1,000 lbs. or less. You would need a vehicle that could tow it, but this could even be a mid size or larger car. I went this way a few years ago when I realized that my truck was just a car with a big trunk. I purchased a 4' x 8' trailer with 4' sides and a tailgate that can turn into a ramp for loading our riding mower. Most of the time it just sits, but when I need to haul stuff I just hook it up to our Jeep and do what ever needs to be done. Just a thought since it is a lot less expensive than a truck. I guess I should get off my soap box also. Use to own one but it won't work for me. First off, no place to store it anywhere around the house and the HOA won't let us store it in the street. Second, I would have to buy a pickup to tow it. My two cars are a '92 MR2 turbo and a 2016 Lexus ES350. Neither is particularly suited to towing. Kind of limits that option but thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel14 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Welcome to America. greed for money, more will not do, they want it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffdeoranut Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I agree with all that's been said here but would add this...a major factor in new car pricing is the buyers are willing to pay the price for the bells and whistles...a cheaper vehicle without the extras just wont sell in the us. recently while in the local chevy dealership I read the sticker on a gmc denali 4 door truck-65k-for a truck that was fancy on the inside and more than likely would never see gravel much less any real truck work...how many 4 door trucks do you see with more than 2 passengers-not many-its a status symbol. I recently bought a used gmc sierra regular cab, long bed, none of the fancy stuff(it even has roll up windows) and 4wd and got a heck of a deal cause no one wants regular cab trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89AKurt Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 ^^^ And ditto above. I'm always amazed how big Japanese vehicles are now. I had a '77 Honda Civic CVCC, my 2016 is about 1/3 bigger, it's like a computer with wheels. Look at pickups, the first Datsuns were tiny, the new ones are HUGE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastown Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Plain and simple. Corporate greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapSat 6 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The manufacturers have been pushing trucks and SUV’s for many years now, because they are more profitable than lower priced sedans and economy cars. The markup by percentage is greater the higher in price point you go, and of course that’s a greater percentage of a higher price. You hear all the time things like: “Americans prefer SUV’s and trucks, so it doesn’t pay to build or stock standard sedans”. Well, the manufacturers have been doing their part to condition their buyers. Even back in 1996 when I sold cars very briefly, the store where I worked stocked something like 40 Jeep Cherokees, 30 Grand Cherokees, but only maybe 5 Cirrus, 1 LHS, 2 Eagle Visions, 2 Breezes and 5 Neons. They were only going to stock what was hot of course, but also, that meant that your selection in standard cars was wanting. You would think that they would have stocked more of the cheaper cars, but that’s not how it worked. Also, it would have served them better to move people who were looking for cheaper cars into used cars, because the margins were MUCH higher on used cars at the time (think 4% on a Neon at sticker vs. 20-40% on a given used car). I will say that I have not been in the car sales business for a long time, so some things may have changed, but I still can’t see the incentive the manufacturers have in offering standard sedans vs. SUV’s and pickups these days. Also, it does seem that there are always deep discount deals on trucks, I saw an ad this morning for around $10k off of the sticker price of a GMC Pickup. I think that’s about the standard thing...which in effect sets the “real” price for pickups. I would definitely shop around when buying a pickup, get the newspaper, shop for the best deal. The dealers all know that everybody is going to shop around these days and the smart ones will try to make a good deal for you. I’d hate to think of the hit you take on depreciation on a new pickup, considering the seemingly “standard” discount that seems to be the norm now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spex84 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Let someone else take the colossal depreciation hit...and buy used. Mexico has all the trucks I'd actually consider buying, but they aren't offered in North America. I love cars, but today's offerings bum me out. I don't want to spend 30-50k on something that sucks premium gas (turbos are becoming common), has high repair costs (fancy headlights, buggy electronics, enormous windshield, 20" wheels and tires, aluminum and carbon-fiber parts, etc)...and that's just for a minivan, ya know?? Not even something "nice". A new vehicle might be safer and get better mileage...but is it really $35,000 worth of safe and efficient over an older, used vehicle? I'll keep driving my 20 year-old Jeep, thanks. And when it dies, I'll do my best to resurrect it, because there are very few vehicles I'd even remotely consider buying to replace it. The only time I'd consider buying new-ish is if I lived in a place with extremely stringent and regular inspections (Much of Europe, California...) that would FORCE me to fix every little thing at high cost. Then it would almost be better to buy something as new as possible, and get rid of it before problems crop up. I figure if vehicles are going to become throw-away products, the prices need to come WAY down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim boyd Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 There are many factors involved here, several of which are touched on above. What most people do not know is that a great deal of the design and content of all automobiles these days is driven by governmental regulation, as well as the lobbying efforts of the many insurance, safety, and environmental lobbies. And for many vehicles, these laws vary from country to country, making all of us pay for compliance with all the laws even though many (such as the European/now Asian Pedestrian Impact Laws) are not required in some markets where the vehicles are sold. The laws and restrictions they advocate have varied levels of effectiveness, but what they all do is add immensely to the cost of new vehicles sold today. Personally, I suspect that the true cost to consumers of these regulations is far higher than has been quoted in the media or claimed by those who lobby in favor of them. Some of these laws - such as those about vehicle stability controls and braking/collision avoidance are highly useful, others much less so. One of the very worst laws has been the CAFE/Corporate Average Fuel Economy laws in the US, which have over 40 years greatly distorted the automotive marketplace in numerous ways and continue to do so today. Ironically, the result of government and NGO-driven automotive legislation is to increase the cost of new vehicles to the point that some people stay out of the new car market, which ironically drives down the overall safety/environmental/etc. effectiveness of the entire automotive fleet as people who would prefer to buy new instead hold on to older, less safe, less efficient vehicles. I don't have a solution other than to suggest that everyone investigate very carefully the voting records of those you vote for in national and state elections...... TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Hamilton Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I have read this topic, and I have quite a bit of knowledge on the subject, being in the retail automobile business for over 30 years. The manufacturers and dealers are going after market share, and will use every trick in their arsenal to get it, such as huge rebates, special financing, and lease deals. As I tell my wife, if the vehicle is not what you want or need, it is not worth your investment. I tend to read the fine print in the advertisements, and those supposed $10-12,000 rebates are a combination of special option packages, dealer and factory discounts, and your having to use the corporate financing source. If you notice, the Japanese based manufacturers have also resorted to rebates and special financing with similar financing requirements. Just try to go into a dealershio and try to pay cash on the barrelhead for the car you really want, if you can find one. When I was in management at the car dealership, I was placed in charge of ordering the inventory for our potential customer base. We sold very few "basic" vehicles, as they sat on the lot the longest. Most of our customers wanted their cars "Well equipped", with all of the optional safety features, leather upholstery, aluminum wheels, pearlescent paint. The mentality was if I were going to pay 48-60 month payments, and a nicer car was $5-50 more per month over the payment period, I want the nicer car. I always thought that a 2007 Chevrolet Impala LS with no additional factory options was a nice family sedan. I ordered some and they sat for months. Elderly people loved them, but most of our other customers had to have more equipment. The same with pickups. We stocked quite a few base Regular cab pickups with 6 cyl engine, automatic transmission (standard equipment), air conditioning and am'fm/cd(also standard equipment). If that particular specified truck was painted other than white, they too either sat on the lot, as they were considered "commercial" vehicles" , or the manufacturer would not build them for us. These vehicle also had the smallest profit margins, so in some cases, we could sell a better equipped vehicle for less money. The same went for trade in values. Well equipped vehicles brought more in trade value, and so forth and so on. Times have changed. We want certain things, but factors out of our control keeps that from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovefordgalaxie Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 My mother always told me a car is a durable consumer good, and it's supposed to be used for 30, or 40 years before even thinking about a new one. She will only buy a new car, if hers gets badly damaged in some sort of accident, or gets stolen. She drives a 2001 Ford Focus, and she only got it as the previous car (1990 Chevrolet Monza) was rear ended so badly the rear tires were jammed. The Focus is 17 years old, and still drives like new. She has no plans whatsoever to trade it. Last year I installed four new tires, and a new timing belt. I drive a 1974 Galaxie. New car? Never. Idon't need a computer with wheels, that looks like it was drawn by a 7 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 12 hours ago, eastown said: Plain and simple. Corporate greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete J. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I have to agree with Ron. It may be greed as "Snake" says, but I have to believe that margins are the biggest driver of the market. The added stuff really drives the price up and bare bones doesn't sell to the majority of the market. People want their heated seats, MP3 players and so on. When I was growing up, A/C and electric windows were an "option". I don't think you can buy a car without air any more and when was the last time you saw a window crank on a brand new car. That is just the tip of the iceberg. I think a lot of this is because we have become much more "Urbanized". Most of the auto market is in the metropolitan areas. Much fewer customers in the rural areas any more and those were the market for the basic pickup. Now if I were to guess every fourth house around here has a pickup in front and chances are it is a big 4 door, all wheel drive, lifted soccer mom hauler. Not the basic two door with a bed. They have become status symbols and that type of vehicle has a greater margin built into it. You can't blame the companies for making what the majority of their customers want. I just wish they still had a compact truck market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Pete J. said: It may be greed as "Snake" says... HEY HEY HEY! I didn't say it was greed. I rolled eyes at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete J. Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 55 minutes ago, Snake45 said: HEY HEY HEY! I didn't say it was greed. I rolled eyes at that. ooop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronw Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 7:37 AM, Pete J. said: Trucks have become a real sore subject for me of late. I have been interested in a small truck for a while for household hauling. A sheet of plywood or two, some 2X4s, a bag of dirt etc. I had two Toyotas back in the 70's and they were perfect. Small, fuel efficient, inexpensive and these were my daily drivers. Well to cut to the chase, I have been looking for one like that, but they just don't exist anymore! My car was in the shop for a while and Toyota rents cars and trucks so I rented their Tacoma. It is the smallest truck Toyota has and it is huge! I needed a stepladder to get in. It was so long it wouldn't fit in my garage, and it sucked gas like a hog. In short, I hated it. On top of that it had a base price of well over $30,000. Heck, I can get a really nice car for that, not a cheap weekend hauler, and as I said the thing is huge! Nobody seems to make a compact truck anymore. Everything is glitzed out, jacked up, option loaded. If you look around on the roads out here in SoCal there are a ton of the old size pickups running around as small contractor work trucks, so I know the market exists. Why is everyone ignoring it. I just want a small inexpensive hauler. Oh, and the older trucks on the used market go for as much as they cost new! Ok, I'll step off the soap box now. That really kills me. I had a 1996 Tacoma which was a very nice size truck, no issues parking, 26 mpg, decent power and a 7 foot bed so not difficult to haul 2x4s, or a 4x8 sheet of plywood by dropping the tail gate. 1996 was a few years before they started to grow. In 2008 or 2009 I remember parking my station truck a 2005 Ford F150 4x4 nose to nose with a Tacoma which was taller and wider than the F150. I checked the Toyota twice because I was sure it must be a Tundra, but it was a Tacoma. I have trouble these days telling a "compact" Chevy Colorado from a "full size" Silverado and forget about trying to find a 2 door cab truck. My Tacoma got wacked in 2014, the insurance gave me $3500 which I thought was pretty good for an 18 year old truck with 300,000 miles. Then I tried to buy another... I couldn't find one for less than $5000, I only paid $7500 for the truck in 2000. If you just need an occasional truck I've found U-haul is quite reasonable, $20/day + mileage for a 1/2 ton pickup. Not a bad price for hauling stuff to the dump or picking up some lumber particularly if you combine both tasks in the same day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Rodney Rat Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 9:55 AM, SfanGoch said: Humans have those as standard equipment mounted in a fully articulated, multi-directional housing. They're known as eyeballs. and those guys are known as The Residents....-RRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathgoblin Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Even a stripper car today has most features only luxury cars used to have. I own a 2009 Malibu LS, and it's a fleet model. No OnStar, 4-cylinder, cloth interior. But it has power windows/brakes/steering, AM/FM/CD stereo with an aux jack, AC, and the driver's seat even had power height adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webestang Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 8:06 PM, Ace-Garageguy said: That's interesting, but I don't actually know many people whose incomes have kept pace with "today's dollar". Ain't it the truth..........! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/30/2018 at 1:25 PM, Spex84 said: Mexico has all the trucks I'd actually consider buying, but they aren't offered in North America. I'll just leave this right here........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 As far as the Mexico market, I see a few differences. Ford has the international Ranger there, but the US is getting that for 2019. Chevy has the Tornado pickup, which is a FWD Opel car based mini pickup, and the S10, which is an earlier version of the current international Colorado. Ram has the 700, which is a Fiat car-based mini pickup. Toyota has the Hilux which is smaller than the Tacoma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spex84 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Apparently Central America has been deleted from the registry. Huh, how 'bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 11 minutes ago, Spex84 said: Apparently Central America has been deleted from the registry. Huh, how 'bout that. Common core geography strikes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Spex84 said: Apparently Central America has been deleted from the registry. Huh, how 'bout that. The Lovely Mrs. Snake will be surprised to discover that she is now a North American. (BTW, she has been a US citizen since 2000.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Spex84 said: Apparently Central America has been deleted from the registry. Huh, how 'bout that. 3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Common core geography strikes again. 1 hour ago, Snake45 said: The Lovely Mrs. Snake will be surprised to discover that she is now a North American. (BTW, she has been a US citizen since 2000.) Again, I will just leave these right here....... Central America is just a region, NOT a continent, and regardless Mexico is still NOT part of the Central American Region. Since almost every gadget including new cars come with some sort of GPS, it doesn't surprise me that most can't even find their way home without them and don't have the basic skills to read these funny and odd drawings I posted called MAPS!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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