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Detail - What is enough?


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Hey Guys?

When doing under hood detailing how do you decide when enough is enough? 

Example: If you add fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb. Do you then need to add the line going back to the tank?

Thanks in advice for you input.

Jon

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This is not always something that I decide in advance. Typically, I know I will do plug wires, fuel lines and other electrical wiring in the engine compartment. Beyond that, brakes lines, chassis fuel lines, dipstick, and other extra items, are more dependent on "how noticeable will it be if they are not there"? I then decide what I can carry on with as the build progresses. 

Edited by Modelbuilder Mark
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Detail of this sort is for modelers with younger eyes and a longer life expectancy than I have. I only detail what can be seen with the model sitting on the shelf. B)

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Like Mark said, my projects seem to grow. I will start out telling myself it’s going to be a simple build, but I’ll get into the “just one more thing” trap.

If there’s an engine I will always wire it and usually add a coil. I add hoses but sometimes cheat on the lower one.  Master cylinder and one wire that just goes downward out of sight. I’ll do the fuel line from an engine mounted fuel pump to the carb because I have a lifetime supply of diodes. I just am not into running fuel or brake lines under the car.  I like battery cables and adding brand labels onto the battery. 

Lately I’ve been sanding off wires molded into the firewall or inner fender wells and replacing them with thin wire. 

And occasionally I’ll go overboard. My Volare messenger car went from telling myself I’d glue the hood shut just to get it done to probably my most wired compartment!

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38 minutes ago, Bills72sj said:

If you have the inclination and the time. Go ahead. Do it for yourself if you enjoy that level of detail.

Exactly. Do however much or little it takes to satisfy you. For me, it depends on the build and my mood. If it's just a build for fun, I may not add any details or just plug wires.

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Depends on the detail level of the kit involved.  I'm coming to the conclusion that it really doesn't make sense to even do plug wires on an engine that has a gaping hole with a wire axle passing through it...

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10 hours ago, Mark said:

Depends on the detail level of the kit involved.  I'm coming to the conclusion that it really doesn't make sense to even do plug wires on an engine that has a gaping hole with a wire axle passing through it...

Agreed. More often now, if it's an old-tool kit with a weak and lacking engine bay, I just glue the hood shut.

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For me, and my skills aren't even close to the level of a lot of you guys, Plug wires are a must ( and if there is not kit coil I add that too) and the upper radiator hose since they are really the most obvious items that are seen.  And since the majority of models don't seem to have alternator or generator brackets I recently bought photo-etch brackets for those.

My models are  not meant to be show pieces and are displayed in as enclosed case with the hoods shut (and probably never to be opened anyway) so exterior finish quality and details are mostly important to me. Just me 2 cents worth fwiw😎

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15 hours ago, Snake45 said:

Detail of this sort is for modelers with younger eyes and a longer life expectancy than I have. I only detail what can be seen with the model sitting on the shelf. B)

Exactly my thoughts, Richard !

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It’s a tough call. I try to stay away from detailing something that isn’t to scale. For example making battery connectors or dip stick loops are cool but hard to duplicate  in 1:25 scale and look a little too animated if not in scale. I have all the respect for anyone who makes the attempt because after all it’s your model and your time but it’s just not my thing. 

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21 hours ago, Snake45 said:

Detail of this sort is for modelers with younger eyes and a longer life expectancy than I have. I only detail what can be seen with the model sitting on the shelf. B)

x2 😉

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Add what suits your personal style. I build a lot of model T era stuff so full detail is less rigorous than current stuff. I know somewhere between little and nothing about modern engine technology so am not interested in building and detailing anything with computer controlled anything. To those that do... good for you. I'll stay over here with my lunatic fringe friends and be humbly amazed at what you're doing.

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29 minutes ago, misterNNL said:

Add what suits your personal style. 

Absolutely!  Do what you like and what pleases you!  It’s a hobby, it’s supposed to be fun! if it’s not fun, don’t do it!


I do like to share my models on the Internet, at club meetings and shows. I don’t build to compete. That cutting edge of modeling flew past me years ago. And learning skills like running a lathe don’t appeal to me. 

I build subject matter that a lot of folks simply don’t get. And that’s fine with me.  As long as I look up at my finished builds and say, “Oh yea!”  Mission accomplished!

 

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Heys guys 

Thanks for the comments. I build for both the shelf and competition. The ones that I compete with are the ones that I struggle with on the level of detail. Knowing that if you see one on the contest table and it has fuel lines in the engine bay does that mean it has to have them all the way to the fuel tank? While I am capable of doing the work I don’t always feel like going that deep into it. 

Thanks

Jon

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23 minutes ago, prostreeter69 said:

Heys guys 

Thanks for the comments. I build for both the shelf and competition. The ones that I compete with are the ones that I struggle with on the level of detail. Knowing that if you see one on the contest table and it has fuel lines in the engine bay does that mean it has to have them all the way to the fuel tank? While I am capable of doing the work I don’t always feel like going that deep into it. 

Thanks

Jon

It doesn't have to. But, if you're competing with it, it's almost a must. If your model doesn’t have those details. But, another model on the table does, which one is gonna win? Some builders add emergency brake detail along with the gas and brake lines, hangers on the exhaust with heat stains etc. If you're competing to win, the more detail, the better. If you're competing for fun, don't worry about it.  

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On 4/12/2021 at 11:41 PM, prostreeter69 said:

Knowing that if you see one on the contest table and it has fuel lines in the engine bay does that mean it has to have them all the way to the fuel tank? While I am capable of doing the work I don’t always feel like going that deep into it. 

I’m known for plumbing that goes down and out of sight but isn’t hooked anywhere.

I will run a fuel line from the engine mounted fuel pump to the carb and nothing to the tank. Same with brake line from master cylinder and battery cables.. lines up top, tucked in where you don’t see the other end.

I used to compete back in the day and did fairly well. Today the cutting edge has gone so far that the same models wouldn’t be competitive today.  And today I don’t care.  

I’ll put cars on contest tables to participate or to share with friends. Many times I’ve met folks from the boards the first time because they recognized my model from photos. 
 

 

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Interesting question that begs a follow on from me.  Why do you ask?  This hobby seems to have two general types of top quality builders.  Those who's driving force is to win contests and those who are driven by the desire to do better for the satisfaction of doing something new or different whether they even enter contests or not.  I would like to believe that I fall into the latter class.  Every kit I do, I try to make better in some way than my last.  This keeps me interested in the hobby and I love honing my skills to achieve more difficult details. 

  The upside of building to win, is that if you win, you have achieved your goal.  The downside is that there are only a few winners at each show and not winning can lead to feelings of failure.  

  The upside to building to do the best you can, it that each new kit presents new challenges and the satisfaction of succeeding at new skills.  The downside is that you never really cross the finish line.  There is always something you could do better on the next model.  It also can lead you down the path of expensive equipment to do something you never thought possible. https://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/ 😈

Edited by Pete J.
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2 hours ago, Pete J. said:

The upside of building to win, is that if you win, you have achieved your goal.  The downside is that there are only a few winners at each show and not winning can lead to feelings of failure

Back in the days when I built for contests, I competed in the Light Commercial  Category. Going to shows up and down the East Coast, pretty much competing against the same handful of vehicles. The awards order would vary from show to show.  It finally occurred to me that we might as well have put the models in a paper bag and pulled out three!  

Based on the outcome you left the show either very happy or very upset.  It wasn’t fun.

So now I don’t compete.. I’m out to have a good day. I want to see some models, buy some stuff and have lunch with friends.  I’m very good at lunch!  And I always come home happy!

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More of a philosophical question.........

Here is what I think when planning a build:
1. Who am I building for?  Myself of course, but will it be seen in person, or pictures online?
2. Why am I building this?  If it's for a contest, I expect to spend hundreds of hours, is it worth it?  Doing a Box Stock and sticking with it guarantees it will be completed.
3. Does the subject deserve the extra detail?  Favorite subjects will get the attention, "normal" vehicles most likely won't.
4. Will the detail be seen?  Lost track of how many things look great, then when the body is put on for the last time, I wonder why I did it.
5. Do I have awesome reference pictures?  Or make up stuff (see my tag line)?

The next question should be, what items in priority does anyone do?  I sort of hate plug wires, especially with V12s.  (List ignores race cars)
A. Plug wires.  Add coil, spark plug boots, loom harness, etc.
B. Radiator hoses.   Add p-e clamps.
C. Heater hoses.
D. Fuel pump and line.  Add line to tank, filter.
E. Carb.  Aftermarket unit, springs, different air cleaner.
F. Battery.  Aftermarket unit, wires, clamp, label.
G. Brake master cylinder.  Is it included?  For example, pickups have different sizes per rating.  Add lines.
H. Windshield washer tank or bag.  Add clear line, pump, etc.
I.  Steering (front engine).  Many kits don't have the steering shaft or box.
J. Labels.  Lucky if the kit has decals, I've reduced pictures and printed on paper.
K. Is there a dry sump tank?  Add oil hoses.
L. Oil cooler?
M. Horn(s)?
N. Use an aftermarket, or another kit engine?
O. Pulleys and belt.
P. Coolant overflow tank.
Q. Realistic hood hinges.
R. Hood prop rod needed?
S. Once one billet aluminum part is added, it can snowball.
T. Once one photo-etch part is added....... you get the idea!

On this project I went overboard.  The only contest it was entered in, did not get an award.  There are other guys who build incredible Factory Stock models, so I'm not surprised.  That's why I don't build street rods, hot rods, muscle cars, because so many do and produce really nice work.  Even with some extra trunk detail, I didn't have a chance.
IMG_1524_Fotor.jpg.fbc24286bcad0d29a780403ac4d0e1a6.jpg

That's my two cents worth.

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3 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

Back in the days when I built for contests, I competed in the Light Commercial  Category. Going to shows up and down the East Coast, pretty much competing against the same handful of vehicles. The awards order would vary from show to show.  It finally occurred to me that we might as well have put the models in a paper bag and pulled out three!  

Based on the outcome you left the show either very happy or very upset.  It wasn’t fun.

So now I don’t compete.. I’m out to have a good day. I want to see some models, buy some stuff and have lunch with friends.  I’m very good at lunch!  And I always come home happy!

Did the same thing here on the west coast years ago but sports cars were my forte.  After winning 3 of the biggest shows on the west coast, I realized that I really didn't have much else to prove.  I still build and compete, but my entries are something I built to see if I could improve some skill or technique.  If I win, fine, but like you, I go to see what others are doing and to have lunch or dinner with my friends.  In August, I am going to IPMS Nationals in Las Vegas.  I will be there a whole week for a three day show.  I plan of having some great food with my friends.  See a show or two.  Drink to much a couple of nights and just have a good time.  This time I am taking my camera and volunteering to shoot all the car models.  I've some skill with a camera and I want to test that to see how many photos I can get published. 😉

Oh and I am entering something I have only seen done one time before and that was by me on a much smaller scale!

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