See The Usa In Your Electric Chevorlet

[martinfan5]

General Motors plans to go 100 percent electric, the Detroit automaker announced Monday.

GM currently offers one extended-range electric vehicle, the Chevrolet Bolt EV, but will add two others within 18 months, said Executive Vice President Mark Reuss, with “at least 20” to be in the line-up by 2023. In addition, the company is developing a new truck platform powered by hydrogen fuel cells, dubbed Surus, short for Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure.

“General Motors believes in an all-electric future,” Reuss said. “Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs.”

 

 

General Motors plans to go 100 percent electric, the Detroit automaker announced Monday.

GM currently offers one extended-range electric vehicle, the Chevrolet Bolt EV, but will add two others within 18 months, said Executive Vice President Mark Reuss, with “at least 20” to be in the line-up by 2023. In addition, the company is developing a new truck platform powered by hydrogen fuel cells, dubbed Surus, short for Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure.

 

 

The Chevrolet Bolt EV electric concept car is unveiled during the first press preview day of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Michigan January 12, 2015. REUTERS/Rebecca Cook

“General Motors believes in an all-electric future,” Reuss said. “Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs.”

 

In recent months, a number of manufacturers have announced plans to “electrify” their product lines. All Volvo models launched from 2018 and beyond, for example, will use either hybrid, plug-in or pure battery-electric drivetrains. Last month, Volkswagen AG said it will invest $20 billion to develop electrified products. Every model sold by its various brands — including VW, Audi, Bentley and Lamborghini — will be offered with at least one battery-based drivetrain option.

But GM said it will go a step further.

Ditching the Combustion Engine

GM's goal is to abandon the internal combustion engine entirely. At some yet-unspecified point, all of its products will draw power either from batteries or hydrogen. Fuel cells are sometimes referred to as “refillable batteries.” They rely on devices called stacks to combine hydrogen and oxygen from the air to produce water vapor and electric current. That power is used to drive the same sort of motors used in battery-cars.

GM was a pioneer in both battery and hydrogen technology. It launched its first fuel-cell prototype four decades ago. Its EV1 was one of the first electric vehicles produced by a mainstream manufacturer, but the line was scrapped when California abandoned its initial zero-emissions vehicle mandates in the 1990s.

Government mandates are clearly driving the industry’s current push to electrify. Even though the Trump administration is expected to roll back the federal Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, California’s new ZEV mandate will require automakers to collectively sell millions of battery or hydrogen vehicles in the years ahead.

And pressures are growing overseas. Several countries, including Norway and India, now plan to ban internal combustion engines entirely. The U.K., France, Germany, and China are considering similar moves. China has just laid out new guidelines for alternative propulsion and is now the world’s biggest market for electrified vehicles.

The key question is one of consumer acceptance. Last year, all forms of electrified vehicles, from hybrids to battery-electric vehicles accounted for barely 3 percent of the U.S. new vehicle market. Pure electrics, like the Chevy Bolt, generated only around a half-percent of total volume. But a number of recent studies have suggested that could top 30 percent or more within a decade.

Tesla Leading the Way

One sign of an impending shift is the strong response to the launch of the new Tesla Model 3 which, like the Bolt, gets more than 200 miles per charge and is priced at under $40,000 before federal and state tax credits. Meanwhile, a new generation of even more advanced and affordable batteries, dubbed solid-state, is expected to reach the market early in the coming decade. They are expected to yield even longer range, shortage charge times and lower prices.

GM isn’t talking about what its new battery-electric vehicles will be but they are generally expected to be utility vehicles, reflecting the rapid market shift from passenger cars to light trucks.

GM describes Surus as a “fuel-cell-powered, four-wheel steer concept vehicle on a heavy-duty truck frame that’s driven by two electric motors.” It could be used for delivery trucks, for example, or ambulances.

Earlier this year, GM launched a joint venture with Honda to begin producing fuel-cell stacks that could be used in vehicles as well as stationary power systems. Honda is expected to use the new hardware in the next version of its Clarity Fuel-Cell Vehicle. GM could use the system in a number of its own future models, including a production version of Surus.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/gm-going-all-electric-will-ditch-gas-diesel-powered-cars-n806806

Edited October 3, 2017 by martinfan5

[waynehulsey]

At 68, I don't expect to be around long enough to see that happen. Nothing against the idea of electric cars, but until battery time gets longer and recharge time shorter, not for me. I like being able to jump in my car in Glendale, AZ; head to Anaheim, CA and get there in roughly 6 hours. Then after getting a hotel room, head to a couple of hobby shops and grab some dinner and maybe run by a couple of old friend's places to see if their home. Right now not sure they're close to a car that will make the drive in one shot. For sure, none that would do the running around without probably a overnight charge. Then what about when you get ready to come back. Hang out at the charging station for 6 to 8 hours waiting for a recharge. Especially if I want to sneak out the back way through Carbon Canyon then to Pomona and on to a stop at Pegasus. Which is also the thing with self driving cars. With both since this is a really big country with lots of empty space you're talking about a lot of major infrastructure, physical and digital, that needs to be created. Have noted most of the people talking up both of these objectives are people that live in urban areas and seem to never leave them. Unless its to go to the airport, get on a plane and flyover everything to get to their urban destination.

[Ace-Garageguy]

"GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs.”

Hmmmmm....are those the same type of "no-compromise solutions" that caused the ignition switch problem?

That little switch problem is looking like it will ultimately cost GM well over $10 BILLION to resolve.

There are a LOT more parts they can screw up in a completely electric vehicle...

...and then try to cover up and deny if there's a problem.

[PARTSMARTY]

I'm confused-i'm too old school-lol.

[Lunajammer]

On the short term, sounds like a stock play.

[Draggon]

I always wonder if 100 years from now they will discover that batteries are as bad for the planet as petroleum. 100 years ago, no one thought oil wells to be a problem.

Summerland, Ca around 1906:

[iamsuperdan]

Electric vehicles are a convenient way for people to think they are doing something good for the environment. 

Research the pollution those battery factories pump out. Not to mention the reliance these cars will have on the power grid. want to do away with coal fired power plants or nuclear plants? Nope.

And people forget that electric cars still need fluids. 

 

Now...having said all of that, I do think it's worth exploring and developing. I've driven hybrids and electric cars, and they have been nothing but fantastic for me. I spent a month bombing around in a 2014 Chevy Volt, and I would give serious thought to owning one if I was in the market for a car. Over the course of 3.5 weeks, I used $3 CDN of fuel. And our power bill for the month was actually lower than the previous month, and about the same as the following month. 

I also spent a week with a Tesla Model S. This car is truly amazing, and if this is the future of automobiles, sign me up. This car does not have a flaw, and it performed flawlessly. Took me three days of normal driving to drain the battery. Over the course of a week, I charged it twice. And again, noticed nothing on my power bill.

I think if the manufacturers can make this work in trucks and SUVs, it will be great. 

What everyone really needs to focus on though, is cleaning up the factories that make the parts. Not sure what the easy fix there is though.

 

 

[djflyer]

I am having serious issues with the thought of an electric Corvette.....

Seriously though, I have to wonder if the ones pushing for the change to electric have considered the strain on the power grids that will be created. Think about the added capacity needed to switch everyone from fossil-fuels to electric All of that juice has to come from somewhere and with not wanting coal-fired or nukes, just where is it coming from?  Would the carbon footprints really decrease or are we just switching it from one hand to the other?  And then consider all of the weather/natural disasters that can knock-out your ability to charge up your car. I bet the people in Puerto Rico would not be real happy with waiting however long it will take to get back online to charge-up as opposed to an hour waiting for gas.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On the short term, sounds like a stock play.

Yeah, and also sounds like GM's corporate focus of late, doing the PC thing, rather than identifying and pursuing the best solution.

I had a lot of respect for GM for rather a long time, as much of their engineering work has been brilliant...like the now ancient smallblock Chebby engine, their early automatic gearboxes, etc.

The C5 Corvette, introduced in 1997, along with the then-new LS family of engines, firmly established at least SOME elements within GM as being highly capable, and still product-driven.

The C5 was an undeniably world-class vehicle, offering the performance of European supercars at a fraction of the price, and doing it with a pushrod engine.

But all I've seen since then is incremental technical progress (towards vast overcomplication, as seems to be the industry standard) with a lot of noise being made about gender and ethnic balance within the company, rather than focusing on product excellence.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The points made above about the long-term environmental effects of batteries, and the current lack of electrical infrastructure sufficient to power an entire national fleet of electric vehicles, are very valid and worrying, though I'm certain a lucrative industry will develop to cleanly recycle old batteries...probably in China or Mexico (assuming America's apparent desire to be a clean-hands consumer nation that doesn't actually MAKE anything continues).

The new nuke plant to have been built in my own state has been suspended after running WAY over both time and budget, as it seems that Westinghouse, once a leader in nuke plant design and construction, is no longer able to deliver on its promises...and has filed for bankruptcy. Its parent company, Toshiba, is concerned that Westinghouse may no longer be a viable business.

Proponents of abandoning the plant at this point cite "decreasing demand for electrical power" as among their reasons. 

How does that position square with a push towards an all-electric vehicle fleet?

As usual today, a lot of chickens running around largely headless, with no one actually driving the bus (please pardon the mixed metaphor).

 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[Mark]

Hey, recently Mary Barra was tapped to join the board of directors at Disney.  And with all the articles I've seen on that, I've yet to see anyone comment about her already having experience with Mickey Mouse operations.  I'm here all week folks, try the veal and don't forget to tip your waitress...

[djflyer]

Hey, recently Mary Barra was tapped to join the board of directors at Disney.  And with all the articles I've seen on that, I've yet to see anyone comment about her already having experience with Mickey Mouse operations.  I'm here all week folks, try the veal and don't forget to tip your waitress...

...like shooting fish in a barrel...or is it electric eels?

[Ace-Garageguy]

[Ace-Garageguy]

One possible upside to this is the fact that GM is apparently partnering with Honda to go into the fuel-cell business...rather than trying to reinvent the wheel themselves.

Honda has already convincingly demonstrated a residential-rooftop, solar-powered hydrogen generator capable of refueling a fuel-cell powered car daily for an "average" commute. Years ago.

It is this kind of big-picture and out-of-the-box thinking that's going to make any kind of sustainable clean energy future actually work...as it takes the massive vehicle-refueling / recharging burden OFF of the power grid.

[jeffdeoranut]

sell shell and gulf...buy coal and electric co stock...of course if this actually happens the cost of electricity willl skyrocket...the fee to dispose of depleted\junk batteries will be in the $1ooos..still, hanging around recharging centers wiil be a great opportunities for panhandlers and muggers...the tree huggers  will have a field day protesting and demanding legislation to curtail our ELECTRIC FOOTPRINT

[Joe Handley]

Start expandimg solar and wind power, especially when attached to the house (which would help combat price gauging), and expand natural gas use, coal use should fall off even further than it has. If everybody charges at night from the grid, the load is not going to be as bad as doing the same during the day, which will help during any transition period. Lithium batteries are recycleable and when I was still at the hobby shop, we had somebody who recycled anything but alkline batteries, yet all it cost us was counterspace until the box was full and had to go back to the recycler. As far as who might hang out in charging stations, you can get mugged or annoyed by a panhandler just as easy at a gas station(been there for the latter), plus it does offer a chance for dining and/or retail at those places while the vehicles are charging.

[HomerS]

My ten year old son and I went to a higher end car show back in the spring.....Lamborghini, Ferrari, McLaren, Corvette Z06, etc....at a local Mercedes dealership.  At the end of the show, the cars left at varying times and took off down the Interstate next to the dealership and there's something to be said for for hearing the music of a V-12 at full throttle.  (Notta a fan of the automatic, but at Camaro ZL1 and the electronic shift is impressive).

My son ran to the fence as he wanted to hear the the sound of the BMW i8....um, no.  Acceleration was impressive but it lacks the 'look at me' over the top style of the other participants having just the 'whoosh'

Sorta like the electric Harley....NO, NO, NO

 

[peteski]

Over the course of 3.5 weeks, I used $3 CDN of fuel. And our power bill for the month was actually lower than the previous month, and about the same as the following month. 

. Over the course of a week, I charged it twice. And again, noticed nothing on my power bill.

Hmm . . .how could that be?  The charging consumed X-number of kilowatts, so that had to show up on your bill.  There is no question about that. Maybe you just happened to use less electricity elsewhere in your house?  Does the car's charging system tell you how many kilowatts it took to charge the battery?  If you know that then you can easily calculate how much it cost you.

For example if the cost for kilowatt where you live is 15 cents/kW and the charging your vehicle consumed 50kW than the cost would have been 0.15 X 50 = $7.50.

Edited October 4, 2017 by peteski

[Ace-Garageguy]

Hmm . . .how could that be?  The charging consumed X-number of kilowatts, so that had to show up on your bill.  There is no question about that. Maybe you just happened to use less electricity elsewhere in your house?  Does the car's charging system tell you how many kilowatts it took to charge the battery?  If you know that then you can easily calculate how much it cost you.

Absolutely positively 100% correct. There is no free lunch.

Many folks also seem to equate electric cars with somehow magically lessening the "carbon footprint " too, but if coal or natural gas or oil are burned to generate the electricity, the carbon footprint remains virtually the same.

Only if the electricity is generated by nuke, hydro, wind or solar is there any carbon advantage over burning hydrocarbon fuels directly in vehicles.

[iamsuperdan]

Hmm . . .how could that be?  The charging consumed X-number of kilowatts, so that had to show up on your bill.  There is no question about that. Maybe you just happened to use less electricity elsewhere in your house?  Does the car's charging system tell you how many kilowatts it took to charge the battery?  If you know that then you can easily calculate how much it cost you.

For example if the cost for kilowatt where you live is 15 cents/kW and the charging your vehicle consumed 50kW than the cost would have been 0.15 X 50 = $7.50.

What I'm saying is that over the course of the summer months, there was no discernible difference on our monthly electricity bill from June through August. I had the car for the month of July. So in normal usage, without doing any additional power saving or conservation, our power bill didn't really change by more than a few dollars. Was there additional power usage because of the car? Slightly, but it was less than the following month, When looking at the total dollar amount, roughly the same. 

June 2014 - $102.07 - 594 kWh

July 2014 - $97.54 - 596 kWh

August 2014 - $97.06 - 656 kWh

Those amounts are lifted right from our power bill.

And let's be serious here, anyone saying they base their power bill on usage instead of dollars is either lying or not being entirely truthful. It's the same people that freaked out on VW for emissions. No one buys the car because of the cleanliness of the exhaust, they buy because it will go 1300km on $50 of diesel.

At the end of the day, people will look at what their monthly bill costs them, and that is what they'll base their perception on. As I did.

 

 

[peteski]

What I'm saying is that over the course of the summer months, there was no discernible difference on our monthly electricity bill from June through August. I had the car for the month of July. So in normal usage, without doing any additional power saving or conservation, our power bill didn't really change by more than a few dollars. Was there additional power usage because of the car? Slightly, but it was less than the following month, When looking at the total dollar amount, roughly the same. 

June 2014 - $102.07 - 594 kWh

July 2014 - $97.54 - 596 kWh

August 2014 - $97.06 - 656 kWh

Those amounts are lifted right from our power bill.

And let's be serious here, anyone saying they base their power bill on usage instead of dollars is either lying or not being entirely truthful. It's the same people that freaked out on VW for emissions. No one buys the car because of the cleanliness of the exhaust, they buy because it will go 1300km on $50 of diesel.

At the end of the day, people will look at what their monthly bill costs them, and that is what they'll base their perception on. As I did.

 

 

But regardless of how you see it, the fact is that the July bill include the cost of that car being charged.  However much it cost. If we know how many kW was needed to charge the car you coudl figure out how much of that bill was for the charging.

As far as electric cars go, there are a lot of "green" people out there who will buy one of them just because it is electric (even if it would cost them more to drive it than an internal-combustion car).  As far as electric bill goes, usage is related directly to cost so I really don't see your point.  You use more electricity, you pay more for it. Simple as that. In USA where you can buy electricity from many different suppliers, some of those suppliers guarantee that their electricity is generated by100% "green" sources.  They are actually more expensive per kW than most other companies but I have feeling that some of the "green" people sign up with them and pay more for their electricity just to be able to say that they are using "green energy".  Go figure . . .

[iamsuperdan]

But regardless of how you see it, the fact is that the July bill include the cost of that car being charged.  However much it cost. If we know how many kW was needed to charge the car you coudl figure out how much of that bill was for the charging.

As far as electric cars go, there are a lot of "green" people out there who will buy one of them just because it is electric (even if it would cost them more to drive it than an internal-combustion car).  As far as electric bill goes, usage is related directly to cost so I really don't see your point.  You use more electricity, you pay more for it. Simple as that. In USA where you can buy electricity from many different suppliers, some of those suppliers guarantee that their electricity is generated by100% "green" sources.  They are actually more expensive per kW than most other companies but I have feeling that some of the "green" people sign up with them and pay more for their electricity just to be able to say that they are using "green energy".  Go figure . . .

You're right, I don't know exactly how much power charging the car consumed, but my point is that whatever the car used, it didn't affect my power bill. Now whether that's due to a fluctuating energy cost, lack of usage in the rest of the house, or whatever, at the end of the day the bill was in line with other bills. 

So my personal bottom line, in a month of usage is that a hybrid saved me money. However, I'm under no delusions about where my power comes from. We have three coal fired energy plants within 45 minutes of where I live. Not overly clean, not sustainable energy.

[Ace-Garageguy]

... We have three coal fired energy plants within 45 minutes of where I live. Not overly clean, not sustainable energy.

Another sad fact few people are aware of is that technology exists to scrub pollutants from coal-fired plant emissions, to capture CO₂ in coal-burning plant exhaust using algae, and to recover energy in several other ways. Here's a little bit about that:   http://www.oilgae.com/ref/downloads/Analysis_of_CO2_Capture_Using_Algae.pdf    None of these green technologies are being exploited widely however, and the carbon-credit trading shell game just obscures reality. Besides that, some estimates still say we're sitting on 300 year's worth of coal.   https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_reserves

... No one buys the car because of the cleanliness of the exhaust...

Well, yeah they do actually. Virtue-signalling is the name of the game these days for a large part of the affluent populace, and whether their hybrids or plug-in electrics are actually as green as they've been led to believe (they just aren't; my 1991 Geo is actually significantly more energy efficient if total life-cycle energy consumption is factored in), there's a smug holier-than-thou self-satisfaction many buyers of these things relish.

... but I have feeling that some of the "green" people sign up with them and pay more for their electricity just to be able to say that they are using "green energy". 

Yup.

,

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Ace-Garageguy

[58 Impala]

Sorry, I'm old school. I still like my cars to go vroom. Electric Corvette? Electric 32 3-window coupe? Nah.

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by 58 Impala

[iamsuperdan]

Another sad fact few people are aware of is that technology exists to scrub pollutants from coal-fired plant emissions, to capture CO₂ in coal-burning plant exhaust using algae, and to recover energy in several other ways. Here's a little bit about that:   http://www.oilgae.com/ref/downloads/Analysis_of_CO2_Capture_Using_Algae.pdf    None of these green technologies are being exploited widely however, and the carbon-credit trading shell game just obscures reality. Besides that, some estimates still say we're sitting on 300 year's worth of coal.   https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=coal_reserves

 

,

 

They try, but it never seem slike they're doing enough. This is the big one near me. http://www.transalta.com/facilities/plants-operation/keephills-3/

The coal's not running out in our lifetimes, but it IS going to run out, so I'm all for exploiting and finding the technology that makes sustainable energy cheaper and more reliable.

 

Sorry, I'm old school. I still like my cars to go vroom. Electric Corvette? Electric 32 3-window coupe? Nah.

 

I may be open to electric cars, but on the other hand, I'm still mounring the slow demise of the manual transmission, so I do like my old tech. And nothing beats the sounds a V8 and loud exhaust can make.

 Having said that, if you get an opportunity, go drive a Tesla. Doesn't matter which model. Put it in "Ludicrous" mode. Seriously, that is a thing. Then when you're done, picture that drivetrain and tech in an old rod or muscle car. Classic, killer looks with a reliable and ridiculously strong powertrain. Could be fun.

 

[Mike999]

I always wonder if 100 years from now they will discover that batteries are as bad for the planet as petroleum. 100 years ago, no one thought oil wells to be a problem.

Summerland, Ca around 1906:

Check out the Orson Welles movie "Touch of Evil."  Set in a "Mexican border town," but actually shot in Venice, CA.  Known today as an upscale beach community (and former home of Revell!).  You can see working oil wells and puddles of oil by-products bubbling out of the ground.  That movie was made in 1958.

Not that oil was a problem for everybody.  I once had a great chat with an elderly woman who worked as a tour guide at the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles.  Her family had been in the city since the late 19th century.  Much of downtown L.A. had oil under it, and every month she still got a payment from an oil company for the mineral rights under their property.  Those payments had been going on for decades.