New From Round2/AMT 2020

[Luc Janssens]

2 hours ago, Mark said:

Read again...

It took me a couple of reads but yes, you're right, only is the market waiting for these kind of  products?, yes there's nostalgia factor, but many did forget how crappy some of these kits were ( sugar coating the past is what keeps us going 'till the lights go out), and that's a factor which has to be taken into recognition.

My view on the hobby is scrap the crappy kits, invest in making classics better and invest in new tooling too, that way one builds towards a future...

my 2 cents

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Luc Janssens

[Mark]

Well, the current way of doing things must be working.  Otherwise, they would be changed.  I'd like them to have started diving into the long-lost stuff (like the coming '64 Cutlass) sooner.  But it is happening.

On the other side, the new Revell organization is going in the other direction, dumping older stuff off and doing new kits (including replacing long-running ones like the Jaguar XK-E).  There's enough for everyone right now...

Edited May 9, 2020 by Mark
Spelling

[Classicgas]

Granted it's not a 100% new tool but Round2 is doing a 4 door Impala.

[Luc Janssens]

13 hours ago, Mark said:

Well, the current way of doing things must be working.  Otherwise, they would be changed.  I'd like them to have started diving into the long-lost stuff (like the coming '64 Cutlass) sooner.  But it is happening.

The question is, how much longer will it work for them, as we all know the sales mostly come from impulse buyers, and kit's like for example the recently re-released Mpc '67 GTO and the '69 Yenko, both models of popular subject matter, which can (and will IMHO) do more harm than good for the brand and the industry as a whole, especially with the surge on sales volume due to the current pandemic shut in's, which seems to inspire many to try something new, or again picking up with a hobby from many many moons ago and for these people the following saying applies (more so than to us lunatic fringe who can build an outstanding model from a turd) ; 

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me", 

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Luc Janssens
spelling, grammar I hope ;)

[espo]

22 hours ago, mrm said:

 

I get it. I'm with you. However this brings three issues that still don't understand. 

First off, they can still reissue some old stuff AND create new. One does not exclude the other. And they have shown they are capable of it both financially and technologically, with their diecast releases in various scales and product lines.

Second, they could still reissue some kits, but improve them in some areas. I mean, some of them are just waist of plastic out of the box.

And last, but definitely not least, is the issue that I know will strike a note with some. This kind of thinking is extremely selfish and not healthy for the hobby's future. I am in my '40s and have two boys, who are at ages perfect for getting into the hobby. But that is pretty darn hard, when you go in Hobby Lobby (which is like a Round 2 company store) and they don't see anything that grabs their interest. Or when it does, it has such poor fitment and bad instructions, that it is no fun for them. 

  In forums, in magazines and at every show I have ever been for the last 20 years, I hear how the hobby is slowly shrinking. How there is no new blood. How there is no one to replace the outgoing generation of builders. And how model stores and companies are closing doors and going out of business. Well, duhhhhhh........   Tamiya is not. Aoshima is in its renaissance. Fujimi had a huge plastic kit comeback. But look what they are making and how they are making it. 

   I build hot rods and customs. Throw enough '30s Fords at me and I'll be happy. The Japanese companies take care of my Ferrari passion. But the hobby can not progress and continue on people like me alone. Or on people who like to build their neighbor's daily beater from 1971. 

You bring up many valid points. I think how someone looks at it has a lot to do with their past experiences. You mention your sons approach to modeling and this makes a perfect point on new modelers. They open a model box and look at a current car or truck that they can relate to and is done in the current what I would call a much more advanced style and they are more likely to jump in than if they opened a kit from your youth, let alone mine. While many of the reissues are off putting to me, many others here have expressed excitement to have these kits from their earlier days, and I think that's good for them. Mine would go all the way back to screw on chassis and very basic representations of the mechanical parts and interiors that are a little better and bodies that are pretty good. My thought on Round 2 is that they have to look at it as a business plan. Should they invest in replacing a mold or revamping an old mold and what would the financial return be on that investment. I think so far they have been successful enough to repair many molds as needed to even the investment of creating the new '67 Impala 4 door. Many including my self have have made fun of the Coca Cola reissues. Some think that is the reason the reissues cost so much as Round 2 has to pay a fee to Coca Cola. Round 2 seems to me to have a good business plan in place and it would not surprise me if they had Coca Cols paying them to put their name on all of the kits. Think about the product placements in movies and the impact on product sales. Would that work to some extent on us as builders ? Maybe. My feeling on the subjects that Round 2 has offered and continues to offer is that if they issue something you have always wanted to build or revisit from our younger days they are providing that and you're not having to pay an obscene amount for that kit since it has never been reissued. 

[Daddyfink]

Round 2 for May

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

40 minutes ago, espo said:

They open a model box and look at a current car or truck that they can relate to and is "done in the current what I would call a much more advanced style" and they are more likely to jump in than if they opened a kit from your youth, let alone mine.

I'm not sure if this is absolutely true.

As I recall from my own experiences as a very young modeler, I may have been excited when I initially opened the box to see a complicated kit with a ton of parts, but that excitement waned very quickly when I, as a novice, realized that it was "too" complicated for a newb.

I nearly stopped building more than once over the years because of an overly complicated military or nautical kit that I lost interest in far before it could be finished.

My guess is that many a prospective modeler was turned off to the hobby when they lost interest in a first kit that was more than they could handle.

Simplicity can be a very good thing to start out a fledgling modeler..........If you can convince them to start simple. 

 

 

 

Steve

[espo]

1 minute ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I'm not sure if this is absolutely true.

As I recall from my own experiences as a very young modeler, I may have been excited when I initially opened the box to see a complicated kit with a ton of parts, but that excitement waned very quickly when I, as a novice, realized that it was "too" complicated for a newb.

I nearly stopped building more than once over the years because of an overly complicated military or nautical kit that I lost interest in far before it could be finished.

My guess is that many a prospective modeler was turned off to the hobby when they lost interest in a first kit that was more than they could handle.

Simplicity can be a very good thing to start out a fledgling modeler..........If you can convince them to start simple. 

 

 

 

Steve

I think your right. I guess for me starting back when they were very very basic my abilities grew as the kits improved. As you mention the Military kits can be intimidating as well. I would suggest one of the nice current snap kits as they go together quickly and might not out last their attention. As with any challenge the next one becomes easier and so on.  

[Carmak]

14 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I'm not sure if this is absolutely true.

As I recall from my own experiences as a very young modeler, I may have been excited when I initially opened the box to see a complicated kit with a ton of parts, but that excitement waned very quickly when I, as a novice, realized that it was "too" complicated for a newb.

I nearly stopped building more than once over the years because of an overly complicated military or nautical kit that I lost interest in far before it could be finished.

My guess is that many a prospective modeler was turned off to the hobby when they lost interest in a first kit that was more than they could handle.

Simplicity can be a very good thing to start out a fledgling modeler..........If you can convince them to start simple. 

 

 

 

Steve

I wonder how many early builders gave up on models after getting a Revell 55, 56 or 57 Chevy (the 60's-80's version with the opening doors). The 3 in 1 kits (and Craftsman kits) could be quick builds with low skill and look good. The same can also be said for 70's-80's Monogram kits. Think about what a huge percentage of the kits made over the years fall into the "simple build" bucket.

Another angle on this: I am a design engineer and I design small detailed ABS plastic parts that are injection molded. If you are not in the business you might not realize how expensive tooling is. The tiny molds I have made (similar in size to engine block sides, heads and intake) are 30K. 

Carmak

[Luc Janssens]

10 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I'm not sure if this is absolutely true.

As I recall from my own experiences as a very young modeler, I may have been excited when I initially opened the box to see a complicated kit with a ton of parts, but that excitement waned very quickly when I, as a novice, realized that it was "too" complicated for a newb.

I nearly stopped building more than once over the years because of an overly complicated military or nautical kit that I lost interest in far before it could be finished.

My guess is that many a prospective modeler was turned off to the hobby when they lost interest in a first kit that was more than they could handle.

Simplicity can be a very good thing to start out a fledgling modeler..........If you can convince them to start simple. 

 

 

 

Steve

That's probably why the skill level was introduced and even then there will be hiccups, because there will be "what look like simple" kits, which won't assemble without a lot of cursing and maybe even get tossed into the trashcan. 

Many parts doesn't necessary mean more difficult, a good design will carry a long way, it's like with puzzles, more pieces can elongate the fun, grab you by the ... and make the sense of accomplishment bigger when finished

IMHO the most common problem with first time builders will be the painting process, not so the small parts which will be brush painted but more so the bigger like the body,  and I don't see Round two or Revell endorsing Tamiya spray paints which IMHO are the best available for the task. 

What IMHO needs to be avoided at all costs is that a cheap diecast model looks better than the more expensive built kit, cuz that will be a major turn off especially for first timers.

Anyway again just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary and no problem with that .

[Luc Janssens]

1 minute ago, Carmak said:

I wonder how many early builders gave up on models after getting a Revell 55, 56 or 57 Chevy (the 60's-80's version with the opening doors). The 3 in 1 kits (and Craftsman kits) could be quick builds with low skill and look good. The same can also be said for 70's-80's Monogram kits. Think about what a huge percentage of the kits made over the years fall into the "simple build" bucket.

Another angle on this: I am a design engineer and I design small detailed ABS plastic parts that are injection molded. If you are not in the business you might not realize how expensive tooling is. The tiny molds I have made (similar in size to engine block sides, heads and intake) are 30K. 

Carmak

A good friend once said to me that grosso modo they count $1000 per cavity for a standard kit.

[Xingu]

Lets get back on track and discuss the new releases. We do not need to to talk about "what if......", "they should.....", or "if I ran things...." every time new releases are announced. It derails the discussion and all it does is rehash all the arguments that have been expressed in dozens of other threads.

[Snake45]

56 minutes ago, Xingu said:

Lets get back on track and discuss the new releases. We do not need to to talk about "what if......", "they should.....", or "if I ran things...." every time new releases are announced. It derails the discussion and all it does is rehash all the arguments that have been expressed in dozens of other threads.

Can I get a AY-men from the choir? 

[Rob Hall]

Getting modelers to stay on topic is like herding cats that have ADD.   (In my profession, I once heard that managing software engineers is like herding cats, we tend to be very independent). 

[espo]

I think it's more ADD driven. 

[Tom Geiger]

23 hours ago, Carmak said:

I wonder how many early builders gave up on models after getting a Revell 55, 56 or 57 Chevy (the 60's-80's version with the opening doors). 

Oh yea! As a kid I was in love with the 57 Nomad. I bought that fiddly kit when I was 10 and failed. I saw it again when I was 11 and figured I was a year older so I should be up to the task... wrong!  

Many old kits have vague instructions and parts without a sure fit. I’m working on the old MPC Jeepster and the grill shell is a thin little flat piece that is warped out of the box. It gets glued into the fenders by its thin edge! Slight bump on the fenders as a guide but nothing to hold it in place. 

As an adult I deduced I could tape the hood in place, tape the grill straight across the top to account for the warp and angle, then add gap filling super glue at the mount area, which had gaps.  

I had three of this kit. The one a kid had started back in the day had a ton of dried Testors glue there, the grill crooked and off angle. It appears that’s where he gave up!
 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Tom Geiger

[Luc Janssens]

1 hour ago, Xingu said:

Lets get back on track and discuss the new releases. We do not need to to talk about "what if......", "they should.....", or "if I ran things...." every time new releases are announced. It derails the discussion and all it does is rehash all the arguments that have been expressed in dozens of other threads.

As long as it's civil and constructive, I don't see the harm, but you're the man

Cheers

Luc

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, Rob Hall said:

Getting modelers to stay on topic is like herding cats that have ADD.

It's not just modelers, as I can testify from seeing the same thing on message boards of many topics. There are some people who just have to talk about themselves and/or whatever is on their mind at the moment, regardless of the stated topic at hand. Sometimes I respond with "Thanks for sharing." or, if I'm feeling particularly snarky, "Thanks for your unvaluable contribution."  (I figure half of them will read it as Invaluable and feel good.) 

[Luc Janssens]

32 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

It's not just modelers, as I can testify from seeing the same thing on message boards of many topics. There are some people who just have to talk about themselves and/or whatever is on their mind at the moment, regardless of the stated topic at hand. Sometimes I respond with "Thanks for sharing." or, if I'm feeling particularly snarky, "Thanks for your unvaluable contribution."  (I figure half of them will read it as Invaluable and feel good.) 

The hobby is kind of a solitary affair,  and for many (certainly during this pandemic) fora and FB the only window to the world with like minded, so yes we there will be wondering off topic, just as it happens when talking face to face, sharing ideas, views... IMHO there's nothing wrong with it, and by underlining the wondering off in this topic, it further wondered off 

 

[Snake45]

10 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

The hobby is kind of a solitary affair,  and for many (certainly during this pandemic) fora and FB the only window to the world with like minded, so yes we there will be wondering off topic, just as it happens when talking face to face, sharing ideas, views... IMHO there's nothing wrong with it, and by underlining the wondering off in this topic, it further wondered off 

 

It also wandered off.  No wonder! 

[Luc Janssens]

8 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

It also wandered off.  No wonder! 

Thanks, see! you helped me off topic! 

At least I can spell Camaro LOL

Edited May 11, 2020 by Luc Janssens

[Snake45]

12 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

At least I can spell Camaro LOL

Yes you can! Points awarded! 

[Luc Janssens]

3 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

Yes you can! Points awarded! 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, Luc Janssens said:

The hobby is kind of a solitary affair,  and for many (certainly during this pandemic) fora and FB the only window to the world with like minded, so yes we there will be wondering off topic, just as it happens when talking face to face, sharing ideas, views... IMHO there's nothing wrong with it, and by underlining the wondering off in this topic, it further wondered off 

 

I agree 100%.

Have any of us ever had a long conversation with a friend or family that remained exactly on the original topic the entire time?

That's just not a natural "human" thing to do.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[SfanGoch]

Big deal, a discussion goes off topic. The end of order and Western civilization as we know it. As pointed out, that's the natural state of affairs in real life. Besides, temporarily drifting off topic about, oh, let's say for argument's sake , a fifty year old kit that's been that's been discussed ad nauseam, breaks the monotony, just like talking with friends.