Brian Austin Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Keep in mind, though, that digital content is not itself guarranteed to last forever online. I belonged to one hobby forum that suffered a catastrophic failure and disappeared without a trace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I agree with that. I've been a member of several that have gone by the wayside. Some happened at the blink of an eye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misha Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 In regards to digital content, what will happen to the existing digital copies of SA? I switched to the digital format in 2015 and now wonder if the same fate will result as with my Rod & Custom copies that vanished when they ceased to publish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicgas Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 hours ago, lordairgtar said: Nope, not what I meant. Most of these modellers never put on the uniform. Not a fan of seeing WWII German artillery, aircraft and other equipment emblazoned with swastikas. I support the people who defend us. I should have been clearer. Got ya. But seeing a swastika on a model aircraft or tank or seeing whatever doesn't bother me, its part of history. Now when i see people invthe streets waving it, thats another thing. Sorry for misunderstanding you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Brian Austin said: Keep in mind, though, that digital content is not itself guarranteed to last forever online. I belonged to one hobby forum that suffered a catastrophic failure and disappeared without a trace. The NASCAR model forum crashed and we lost the data base. With the crash went posts from people that worked in NASCAR in the 1960's 70's and are now gone.....and so is all the first hand info they had given us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike999 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Here's a 1/35 scale "military" diorama without a single gun or uniform in it. Rick Lawler's incredible work, "Burden of Sorrow." The train car has just arrived at a concentration camp. It's hard to see the little details, but they include things like wedding photos and baby shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 10 hours ago, modeladdict said: Are we still talking about Scale Auto? Uh, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 46 minutes ago, Dave Van said: The NASCAR model forum crashed and we lost the data base. With the crash went posts from people that worked in NASCAR in the 1960's 70's and are now gone.....and so is all the first hand info they had given us. And that, right there, is the problem I have with relying on digital info systems for everything. A drive or server crash, changes in "policy" enforcement from an online provider, or a hacking event...everything gone. It's not living in the past to be somewhat wary of digital storage, boys and girls. It's living in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stavanzer Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Dave and Bill E. have the right of it. The "Internet may be forever", but Digital only lasts as long as there is electrical power. Future Historians will know literally nothing about the last 20 years, because so little of substance has made it to hard copy. "Dead Tree" is the only way for the Future to learn about the Past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 You only have to look at older posts here with missing photos. Digital copies can be a problem like that. Magazines cannot just send out a file because people would forward it to their friends, avoiding subscribing and a loss of revenue to the magazine. And the downside is it will eventually go away. Many years ago we did a video at NNL East. We paid a professional guy who did car shows to produce it. We were only charging $10 with hopes of breaking even. First year it was a hit and we broke even. Then it dwindled.. people admitted their club bought one and made a copy for everyone in the club! They’d tell me this like there was nothing wrong! The last year we only sold ten copies. The next year many more than ten people complained that we cancelled it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, alexis said: ...Future Historians will know literally nothing about the last 20 years, because so little of substance has made it to hard copy... It seems that a lot of present day "historians" know literally nothing about the last 200 or more years, even though there's no shortage of "dead-tree" archived material available. I wonder which will have the more profound effect on mankind's future...the somewhat ephemeral nature of digital media, or intentional historical revisionism coupled with willful ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Misha said: In regards to digital content, what will happen to the existing digital copies of SA? I switched to the digital format in 2015 and now wonder if the same fate will result as with my Rod & Custom copies that vanished when they ceased to publish... It may be a good idea to buy the DVD-Rom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: It seems that a lot of present day "historians" know literally nothing about the last 200 or more years, even though there's no shortage of "dead-tree" archived material available. I wonder which will have the more profound effect on mankind's future...the somewhat ephemeral nature of digital media, or intentional historical revisionism coupled with willful ignorance. A guy who does 'man on the street' show did one about July 4th. Two people he stopped to interview said they were elementary school teachers, the host laughed and said 'you'll be the first today to get all my questions right' First question was 'What is the year of Independence?' Both said they didn't know but it was '17 something'. Enough said..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Mike999 said: Here's a 1/35 scale "military" diorama without a single gun or uniform in it. Rick Lawler's incredible work, "Burden of Sorrow." The train car has just arrived at a concentration camp. It's hard to see the little details, but they include things like wedding photos and baby shoes. Makes you think like the scene in Schindler’s List of all the pictures, eye glasses and such. Thanks for sharing Mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, slusher said: It may be a good idea to buy the DVD-Rom... I did that for the original Car Model magazine of the 60's-70's. It was great and well worth it.....until it got corrupted. Not a scratch....the data would not read any longer. I contacted publisher.....their solution....buy another DVD...... Edited July 17, 2020 by Dave Van Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slusher Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dave Van said: I did that for the original Cam Model magazine of the 60's-70's. It was great and well worth it.....until it got corrupted. Not a scratch....the data would not read any longer. I contacted publisher.....their solution....buy another DVD...... I believe you but how did it get corrupted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Van Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, slusher said: I believe you but how did it get corrupted? How I am not sure......but my years in the IT field I hear others with the same story. My guess is a defect in the disk that surfaces after years. There are a number of sites and even Youtube videos on how to fix corrupted DVD....but none worked. I also have a DVD copy of the Japanese release of the 1982 Blade Runner, rare film. it stopped working a few years after I bought it. Played maybe 3 times.....very well cared for. Things happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkybritches Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Dave Van said: The NASCAR model forum crashed and we lost the data base. With the crash went posts from people that worked in NASCAR in the 1960's 70's and are now gone.....and so is all the first hand info they had given us. One of my other hobbies is sim racing. There was a website that was well known in that community called No-Grip. They had forums dedicated to every well known sim racing title. There were forums for 3d modelling, track creation, creating skins for cars, physics info, tutorials, along with thousands of files to download. Then one day No Grip ceased to exist. The owner decided that he no longer felt like dealing with the site anymore and simply pulled the plug. Everything was gone. A lot of the members that provided content and knowledge to the forums had moved on, so there was no way to recover that lost information. Humans tend to take things for granted, but the same thing could happen here. There is a ton of creative knowledge here, but if the plug gets pulled lots of great information will be lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goose1957 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 31 minutes ago, Dave Van said: How I am not sure......but my years in the IT field I hear others with the same story. My guess is a defect in the disk that surfaces after years. There are a number of sites and even Youtube videos on how to fix corrupted DVD....but none worked. I also have a DVD copy of the Japanese release of the 1982 Blade Runner, rare film. it stopped working a few years after I bought it. Played maybe 3 times.....very well cared for. Things happen. I look at some of my music CDs from the late 80's- early 90's and they look like swiss cheese when I hold them up to the light. Somehow, the silver backing is flaking off making the disk useless. You can't see where this is happening on either surface, the silver has just "disappeared " in very small spots. So much for lasting for an eternity. BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH, now I need to buy half of my older Metallic albums again. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Dave Van said: I did that for the original Car Model magazine of the 60's-70's. It was great and well worth it.....until it got corrupted. Not a scratch....the data would not read any longer... Yeah, that's another thing. People generally assume CD or DVD info is secure and will last forever. The truth is that anywhere from 2 years to 100 years is what you can expect. You never know until it's gone bad. And home-burned discs usually seem to be more easily corrupted than professionally manufactured ones. So burning copies is no guarantee you can keep your data intact, any more than backing up to hard-disc, flash-drive, or the cloud guarantees it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ambrose Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Yeah, that's another thing. People generally assume CD or DVD info is secure and will last forever. The truth is that anywhere from 2 years to 100 years is what you can expect. You never know until it's gone bad. And home-burned discs usually seem to be more easily corrupted than professionally manufactured ones. So burning copies is no guarantee you can keep your data intact, any more than backing up to hard-disc, flash-drive, or the cloud guarantees it. Backing stuff up is a complicated subject. No medium lasts forever, and even archival DVDs are only good for 20 years or so. Then there's the matter of obsolete formats. I got whacked by that some time back. Information was stored in an archive format that's no longer used, and I can no longer run the archive program. Oops. We go to a lot of trouble to protect this site. We have multiple backups in multiple locations; including an air-gapped hard drive that isn't plugged in to anything unless we're copying data to it. Our problem, and I suspect other sites' problem is that the backups have gotten so large. Backups for this site are now running at 250GB and growing at about 15% per year. We're lucky that big hard drives are relatively cheap, but I look like a data hog to my local internet provider. We learned some hard lessons when we got hacked. Now, we're pretty well protected from both vandalism and data loss. But, this is still something I'm actively working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazz Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Someone asked about SA's Contest cars, I just heard from them and they said the 2020 addition will still be coming out. FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan White Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Don’t forget that paper copies aren’t impervious to ceasing to exist either. Fire, flood, storms, untrained dog, vengeful ex-wife, etc. Like with anything, you have to enjoy them while you can and remember that nothing really will be around forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jordan White said: Don’t forget that paper copies aren’t impervious to ceasing to exist either. Fire, flood, storms, untrained dog, vengeful ex-wife, etc. Like with anything, you have to enjoy them while you can and remember that nothing really will be around forever. Don't forget the three year old great grandson that would just as soon live in the hobby room....where the ancient issues of modeling magazines are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Jordan White said: Don’t forget that paper copies aren’t impervious to ceasing to exist either. Fire, flood, storms, untrained dog, vengeful ex-wife, etc. Like with anything, you have to enjoy them while you can and remember that nothing really will be around forever. Yeah, but I've got paper reference material that's over 70 years old. It won't ever stop working because it's no longer supported, or because the bookcase crashed, or because the playback program won't run in my brain anymore, etc. Fire is about the only one of those hazards I'm still vulnerable to, as my cat knows better, so do my exes (and none of 'em have keys anyway), and I'm 100 feet above any possible flooding. But you're right...nothing will be around forever. So appreciate whatcha got and take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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