amt 1202 1/25 AMT 1963 Chevy II Nova Station Wagon - Craftsman Plus

[Mark]

21 minutes ago, the other Mike S. said:

I wonder why they didn't save the original engineering drawings?  I've seen pics of some of the old tooling masters that were kept intact.  Anything that important and critical to the tooling should've been saved in an archive file of some sort (you would think).  

Changes in ownership and multiple moves can be blamed.  People put in charge of moving or storage are often not given the resources they need, and are forced to prioritize.  Old drawings and files are usually the first casualties.  Older tooling sometimes doesn't get high priority either.  I believe the Tom Graham Revell book mentions older tooling inserts were sometimes found in offices, where they were used as ashtrays.

 

[Casey]

54 minutes ago, the other Mike S. said:

I wonder why they didn't save the original engineering drawings?  I've seen pics of some of the old tooling masters that were kept intact.  Anything that important and critical to the tooling should've been saved in an archive file of some sort (you would think).  

Hindsight versus foresight. Far easier to look back 50+ years an lament lost drawings, 1/10 scale wood bucks, etc., but back in 1966 when the Chevy II Nova was updated by GM, who at AMT had the foresight to think (or was bold enough to propose at a management meeting) "Gentleman, I think we should preserve and store this mold for 57 years, because people who are kids now will be dying to get their hands on a reissue of this Craftsman style kit in 2020!"

I would argue it is the tooling itself which is critical, and as Mark mentioned above, even that wasn't properly maintained nor preserved by everyone in the ownership chain. I'm sure Round2 would love to have seen every mold slathered in cosmoline, packaged complete with all inserts, bodyside slides, etc, and neatly labeled for future use.

[the other Mike S.]

I can see the point about it not being an important foresight issue to preserve everything they did back in those days.  However, the way they disregarded things like using tooling inserts for ashtrays in the office or leaving the expensive tooling sitting outside back in Baltimore is kind of suprising.  Even back then, the thought of reissuing popular releases had to be on their minds.  Did they think the annual promo contracts and the kits that were based upon them would never end? 

Thinking back to the X-EL days at Johan.  The existing tooling they had at that time were of promo/kits that were getting somewhat collectable even back then.  Yet, this same type of behavior prevailed and tooling was lost, damaged or outright destroyed.  Of course, that depends on how much you believe the old rumor of exgruntled factory workers stealing parts of the tooling to sell for high scrap metal values.lol!

 

  

 

[Tom Geiger]

3 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

I wonder why they didn't save the original engineering drawings?  I've seen pics of some of the old tooling masters that were kept intact.  Anything that important and critical to the tooling should've been saved in an archive file of some sort (you would think).  

Anything that has survived is purely due to chance and haphazard business practices.  There was no continuity, the companies and property changed hands several times, losing anyone with experience and knowledge of exactly what they had. I doubt paper records exist. 

Think about it..  Tooling that has been sitting for some odd 50 years while still unidentified?  Incredibly inefficient and costly to store!

I am finishing up a consulting gig where modern business standard, basically states that if you don’t have a use for something within a reasonable amount of time, you liquidate it.  Keeping idle assets costs a company about a third of that assets value to keep every year.  

Edited November 27, 2020 by Tom Geiger

[chris coller]

Would anyone happen to know the release date for 63 Nova Wagon?

[Casey]

[1972coronet]

I recognise that this is a restored-tooling of the original ; and , I recognise that the engine compartment was reconfigured ( separate battery , chiefly ) ---- now , how's its engine "top" look ? I see the engine's "underside" ( a 'plate'  , promo-style insert ) , and the separate bonnet (and the separate battery and other parts , to the left of the glass , by the QR Code) , but no indication of an engine "top" .

Ne'er-the-less... That Nova Wagon , the Racers Wedge , and the GMC Jimmy are must haves !

[Rob Hall]

15 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

I recognise that this is a restored-tooling of the original ; and , I recognise that the engine compartment was reconfigured ( separate battery , chiefly ) ---- now , how's its engine "top" look ? I see the engine's "underside" ( a 'plate'  , promo-style insert ) , and the separate bonnet (and the separate battery and other parts , to the left of the glass , by the QR Code) , but no indication of an engine "top" .

 

There is no 'engine top' in this, nor was there in the original Craftsman kit.  It was an unassembled promo that happened to have a separate hood.   I'd assume if one were motivated to, they could kit bash this with the AMT '66 Nova for an engine and more detailed chassis.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Rob Hall

[1972coronet]

40 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

There is no 'engine top' in this, nor was there in the original Craftsman kit.

That's cool . I'd figured that it was an unassembled promo ( all Jr. Craftsman kits were , no ? )  , and I'm totally good with that . I'm just glad to see it returned to its stock iteration !

[the other Mike S.]

What was the point in a separate hood if there was no topside engine detail?  I've seen a few old promos made that way, but I know that probably made it easier for them to do a kit based from the promo tool without any changes to the tooling. 

However, I'm not sure what was changed to the tooling to make the molded in hood on most promos and then make a kit with a separate hood.  Sliding insert with separate hood?  Or, shutting off the gates on the part of the tool that flowed plastic to the hood section? 

Edited December 2, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[Muncie]

The annual 1963 Chevy II wagon was also available as a full on customizing kit with the 6 cylinder engine. - the same tooling for the body, hood, and chassis was probably used in the craftsman kit, the customizing kit and the promo

[sfhess]

2 hours ago, Rob Hall said:

There is no 'engine top' in this, nor was there in the original Craftsman kit.  It was an unassembled promo that happened to have a separate hood.   I'd assume if one were motivated to, they could kit bash this with the AMT '66 Nova for an engine and more detailed chassis.

One of my current projects is a build using the original Nova wagon body.  The 66 Nova chassis and engine compartment fits the wagon pretty well.  The wagon's interior bucket does not fit on the 66 floor pan.  I am using a combination of the 66 interior, along with part of a 65 Chevelle wagon interior in my build.

[the other Mike S.]

On 11/27/2020 at 10:00 AM, Tom Geiger said:

Anything that has survived is purely due to chance and haphazard business practices.  There was no continuity, the companies and property changed hands several times, losing anyone with experience and knowledge of exactly what they had. I doubt paper records exist. 

Think about it..  Tooling that has been sitting for some odd 50 years while still unidentified?  Incredibly inefficient and costly to store!

I am finishing up a consulting gig where modern business standard, basically states that if you don’t have a use for something within a reasonable amount of time, you liquidate it.  Keeping idle assets costs a company about a third of that assets value to keep every year.  

That makes sense.  At the end of the day, it's still a profit making endeavor/business no matter how much we like the old promos and the annuals/reissued kits that were based upon them.  

The question I have is how much did the dealers profit on these dealer promos?  What was their incentive to order them?  I know they were originally designed promotional sales items to showcase the new 1:1 car models from the auto manufacturers.  However, by the late '60s, I'm guessing most of the promos were being sold for a profit like a model kit inside the dealership sales/parts departments. 

That is, unless the greedy owner/sales people/dealership personnel didn't scoop them up on them first. Whenever you see large quantity of old promos for sale these days, it's typically from a individual/s who were associated with the car biz.  That's probably where Wheat's Nostalgia gets most of his unless he has a Delorean time machine at his disposal. lol!   When I would go to the dealer and look for them back in the day, there either were sold out, didn't have them or didn't know what I was talking about. lol!   Of course, that depended on if they ordered them in the first place.  Obviously, not all dealers participated in the promotional promo model car program.  

When I got into collecting them back in the mid '80's, they were being sold inside the dealer parts department in plain little white boxes.  They certainly were not being given away to people who visited the dealership.  Heck, it was even hard getting the brochure at times.  I wonder when the story book method of promos being given away to kids finally ended (if in fact that was actually true) and they started selling them for money like a model kit in the parts dept.?  

The free promotional thing might have been true back in the '50's and the early '60's.  However, by the time the mid to late '60's rolled around, I'm guessing they were being sold for profit in the parts department.  Apparently, there was still a "market" for them to continue production up until 2017.  Now, there is nothing. 

What really surprises me was no 2020 Corvette promo available this year.  The Corvette promo is the only car, I can think of that has been in continous production from nearly the beginning.  Every year since the '50's, there had been at least one Corvette promo available (except for 1983) until 2018.   Even though people like to say the promo model car market mostly died back in the '70's,  it actually dieduntil '18 when nothing was available, not even the Corvette.

Edited December 3, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[pack rat]

2 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

I recognise that this is a restored-tooling of the original ; and , I recognise that the engine compartment was reconfigured ( separate battery , chiefly ) ---- now , how's its engine "top" look ? I see the engine's "underside" ( a 'plate'  , promo-style insert ) , and the separate bonnet (and the separate battery and other parts , to the left of the glass , by the QR Code) , but no indication of an engine "top" .

 

This kit is actually a re-creation of the Craftsman kit with a few improvements, not restored old tooling.

There is no "engine top", just the chassis insert..   Like the original Craftsman kit the hood is separate but it is meant to be left in place.

The parts you see to the left of the QR code are actually the clear red parts; taillight lenses (another improvement over the old kit) and a clear red telephone (no kidding!).

I just finished building a display kit, and it was virtually flawless.  The body was so clean I just gave it a quick sand/primer/paint; no puttying sink marks, sanding mold lines etc.  I believe Round2 will post pics of the build-up soon.

One thing not mentioned by Chad...they re-created the old AMT "compact" whitewall tires as used on the old '60's annuals.  

  

[Mark]

30 minutes ago, the other Mike S. said:

 

What really surprised me is there was no 2020 Corvette promo available this year.  The Corvette promo is the only car I can think of that has been in continous production from nearly the beginning.  Every year from the '50's, there had been at least a Corvette promo available (except for 1983) until '18.   Even though we like to think of the traditional promo model car market dying back in the '70's, I think it didn't die until '18 when nothing was offered, even the Corvette.

My understanding is that, during the 2009-2010 reorganization of GM, the rights to Corvette promo models (possibly all GM promos) was given to a charity, and the charity hired a company to get them produced.  The guy who was putting together the deals to get them manufactured passed away, and nobody else there had any knowledge or interest in continuing them.  The last few promos didn't sell in any big numbers, anyone involved with them was probably looking at declining sales and diminishing returns on them.  I am surprised that no kit manufacturer has stepped up...maybe it shouldn't be surprising with a lot of kits of recent cars ending up in closeout stores, nobody wants to take a chance on a new Corvette kit.

[Justin Porter]

Just now, Mark said:

My understanding is that, during the 2009-2010 reorganization of GM, the rights to Corvette promo models (possibly all GM promos) was given to a charity, and the charity hired a company to get them produced.  The guy who was putting together the deals to get them manufactured passed away, and nobody else there had any knowledge or interest in continuing them.  The last few promos didn't sell in any big numbers, anyone involved with them was probably looking at declining sales and diminishing returns on them.  I am surprised that no kit manufacturer has stepped up...maybe it shouldn't be surprising with a lot of kits of recent cars ending up in closeout stores, nobody wants to take a chance on a new Corvette kit.

Most kits of recent cars do pretty well provided they're worthwhile kits of popular subjects. I had a hard time keeping Revell's Mclaren 570S and BMW i8 on my shelves. 

[Casey]

1 hour ago, pack rat said:

One thing not mentioned by Chad...they re-created the old AMT "compact" whitewall tires as used on the old '60's annuals.    

Are they different than the 13" tires Round2 created and included with the 1/25 Ohio George '61 Ford Ranchero kit?

 

[pack rat]

3 minutes ago, Casey said:

Are they different than the 13" tires Round2 created and included with the 1/25 Ohio George '61 Ford Ranchero kit?

 

I finally opened my Ohio George '60 Ranchero.....I didn't realize they were in there.  The Nova tires are thin-line whitewall versions of the Ranchero tires.

[Mark]

The tires in the Ranchero kit are the old promo/Junior Craftsman kit tires, with the center web trimmed out.  The kit tires were different, the center hole had either a rib or a notch on its perimeter.  Apparently the kit tire tooling didn't turn up so the promo tires had to be pressed into service.

[the other Mike S.]

6 hours ago, Mark said:

My understanding is that, during the 2009-2010 reorganization of GM, the rights to Corvette promo models (possibly all GM promos) was given to a charity, and the charity hired a company to get them produced.  The guy who was putting together the deals to get them manufactured passed away, and nobody else there had any knowledge or interest in continuing them.  The last few promos didn't sell in any big numbers, anyone involved with them was probably looking at declining sales and diminishing returns on them.  I am surprised that no kit manufacturer has stepped up...maybe it shouldn't be surprising with a lot of kits of recent cars ending up in closeout stores, nobody wants to take a chance on a new Corvette kit.

I don't think it's because no one wants to take a chance on a new Corvette kit.  The new Corvette would obviously sell because the real car is smoking hot right now and anyone who is a car enthusiast/collects and builds model cars/ even the real 1:1 scale Corvette owner/ would probably want one. 

The reason we didn't have a 2020 Corvette model kit is because GM had not requested a promo contract.  So, I'm guessing for Round 2 or even Revell to develop one from scratch, they would have to spend a lot more time and money than if they had GM's blessing for a promo contract from which a kit could be based upon.

When it came to developing new tools, the Corvette was always a no brainer.  The fact that even Tamiya nor anyone else has not stepped up to the plate in offering a new Corvette kit has me truly baffled.  If you want the new Corvette in scale, it's diecast only.  Pot metal must be a lot cheaper to produce than plastic, I guess.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by the other Mike S.

[niteowl7710]

6 hours ago, the other Mike S. said:

I don't think it's because no one wants to take a chance on a new Corvette kit.  The new Corvette would obviously sell because the real car is smoking hot right now and anyone who is a car enthusiast/collects and builds model cars/ even the real 1:1 scale Corvette owner/ would probably want one. 

The reason we didn't have a 2020 Corvette model kit is because GM had not requested a promo contract.  So, I'm guessing for Round 2 or even Revell to develop one from scratch, they would have to spend a lot more time and money than if they had GM's blessing for a promo contract from which a kit could be based upon.

When it came to developing new tools, the Corvette was always a no brainer.  The fact that even Tamiya nor anyone else has not stepped up to the plate in offering a new Corvette kit has me truly baffled.  If you want the new Corvette in scale, it's diecast only.  Pot metal must be a lot cheaper to produce than plastic, I guess.  

There wasn't a promo contract for the C7 either, and infamously Revell had burned so many bridges to GM at that point they had to wait until they could access a privately owned C7 to measure as GM declined to provide them with the factory data. The prior sales of the C6 kits dictated the more basic nature of the C7 kit we did eventually get of it.

The C7.R materialized because Revell had a multi-year relationship with Pratt Miller who builds the IMSA cars, and that kit was also much more simplified than the prior GT LM Corvette kits and the Multimatic built Ford GTs - plus factor in the part where Revell DID have an excellent relationship with Ford.

Speaking of Pratt Miller they're building a Camaro GT4 platform, that would be an interesting companion to the Tamiya Mustang, but Revell would have to drown out the scale snobbery and make it in 1/24.

Edited December 3, 2020 by niteowl7710

[ChrisBcritter]

14 hours ago, pack rat said:

The parts you see to the left of the QR code are actually the clear red parts; taillight lenses (another improvement over the old kit) and a clear red telephone (no kidding!). 

For delivery to Commissioner Gordon's office? 

Looking forward to getting this Nova! I thought the '64 Olds F-85 would be first - maybe Jan./Feb. now?

Edited December 3, 2020 by ChrisBcritter

[tim boyd]

FWIW, I have been told by insiders that these days it is difficult to get data for new vehicles from GM in order to develop model kits.  Reportedly Ford is much more supportive.  Haven't heard anything one way or another about Fiat-Chrysler (forgot heir new name after the Peugeot-Citroen merger).    TIM 

[Rob Hall]

6 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

  Haven't heard anything one way or another about Fiat-Chrysler (forgot heir new name after the Peugeot-Citroen merger).    TIM 

Stellantis. 

[Danno]

LOL. Rob and Tom are right as rain.

Yeah, I don't (either) want to get distracted with philosophical discussions about what the definition of "is" is. 

I'm just tickled poopless that we're getting this awesome Nova wagon, no matter whether it is 100% Awesome or just 99% Awesome. There are still more than one coming home with me!

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