Container Ship Adrift in Atlantic with...

[TransAmMike]

1100 Porsche' s and 189 Bentleys. 

Maybe someone can post a link to the story. 

[Paul Payne]

Crew safe, ship burning, nice cars toasted.

[Rodent]

https://www.autonews.com/retail/towing-boats-head-toward-burning-cargo-ship-carrying-4000-vws-porsches-bentleys-audis-lambos

LI batteries on fire, according to this.

[89AKurt]

  On 2/19/2022 at 2:49 AM, Rodent said:

https://www.autonews.com/retail/towing-boats-head-toward-burning-cargo-ship-carrying-4000-vws-porsches-bentleys-audis-lambos

LI batteries on fire, according to this.

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Thanks for the link.  I know Audi Etrons were in the manifest.

[Erik Smith]

Too bad. I know they’re just material things, and luxury items (well, the high end cars), but think of all the labor and actual sacrifice that is 100% wasted as the cars burn. 

[Dave Ambrose]

Good that the crew is safe. Fire on board a ship loaded with flammable cargo is a very big deal. 

[1930fordpickup]

What a bummer. Glad to see the crew was safe and sound. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

Glad to hear crew is safe. Bet there are going to be some really unhappy dealers who were getting those cars. No doubt some lost sales also.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Hey...one way to keep cashflow going during the global "chip shortage": load a bunch of unfinished cars on a ship, burn it in the middle of the ocean, collect the insurance.

Probably more cost-effective than waiting in line at LA / Long Beach behind 60+ other container ships.   

EDIT: And in that scenario, once they were finally unloaded, you'd still have truckloads of unsalable yard-art with no chips.  

Edited February 20, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[OldTrucker]

  On 2/19/2022 at 9:02 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Hey...one way to keep cashflow going during the global "chip shortage": load a bunch of unfinished cars on a ship, burn it in the middle of the ocean, collect the insurance.

Probably more cost-effective than waiting in line at LA / Long Beach behind 60+ other container ships.   

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Interesting thought indeed!

 

[iamsuperdan]

  On 2/19/2022 at 6:06 AM, 89AKurt said:

Thanks for the link.  I know Audi Etrons were in the manifest.

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Being that it's all VW Group:

 

Volkswagen ID.4

Audi e-tron

Porsche Taycan

Porsche Panamera e-hybrid

Porsche Cayenne e-hybrid

I'm guessing of the 4000 vehicles on board, at least 1000 have Li batteries.

[Smoke Wagon]

I remember seeing a few videos of Teslas catching fire and becoming engulfed in flames due to faults in battery packs. Not a problem I would expect from a major established manufacturer. Although it is VW Group we’re talking about, Diesel-gate and all that... 

[Dave Ambrose]

  On 2/19/2022 at 9:02 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Hey...one way to keep cashflow going during the global "chip shortage": load a bunch of unfinished cars on a ship, burn it in the middle of the ocean, collect the insurance.

Probably more cost-effective than waiting in line at LA / Long Beach behind 60+ other container ships.   

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Unlikely. The ship is probably worth more than the cargo and they don’t own it. 

[Scott8950]

This is why I wouldn't own an electric car and if I did it definitely wouldn't be parked near my house.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 2/20/2022 at 3:07 AM, Dave Ambrose said:

Unlikely. The ship is probably worth more than the cargo and they don’t own it. 

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Well, the ship could be getting a little long in the tooth and the owners looking at a major refit.

Wouldn't be the first time corporations did a backroom deal that was "mutually beneficial", so to speak.

Not a conspiracy theory..."just sayin'", as they say.   

But a wise man once said "never ascribe to evil what is more likely just the product of incompetence".  

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[bobthehobbyguy]

Ace an interesting thought about a way to get rid of unfinished product. 

Although I think the fact that lithium batteries can be easily damaged is the more likely culprit. Also depends on how gooddc the quality control is for the batteries.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 2/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

Ace an interesting thought about a way to get rid of unfinished product. 

Although I think the fact that lithium batteries can be easily damaged is the more likely culprit. Also depends on how gooddc the quality control is for the batteries.

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True, but what's always hard for me to totally swallow in "accidental" catastrophic losses like this is the apparent lack of training and preparedness of a crew to deal with what would initially be a small, easily controlled fire.

Shades of the Bonhomme Richard debacle.

“ 'Although the fire was started by an act of arson, the ship was lost due to an inability to extinguish the fire,' according to the investigation, which was written by Vice Adm. Scott Conn, then-commander of Third Fleet.

...the Navy’s investigation into the fire found that the Bonhomme Richard’s crew was ill-prepared and under-trained to contain the fire once it broke out. 

'Once the fire started, the response effort was placed in the hands of inadequately trained and drilled personnel from a disparate set of uncoordinated organizations that had not fully exercised together and were unfamiliar with basic issues to include the roles and responsibilities of the various responding entities,' reads the investigation."

Edited February 20, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
Punctuation :;""?/...

[Fat Brian]

It will be interesting to see if this brings about new safety regulations regarding shipping large lithium batteries. Maybe the batteries will have to be stored separately and installed state side. It wouldn't be the first time something like that has been done, though in the past it was to avoid tariffs on certain types of vehicles. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 2/20/2022 at 5:17 PM, Fat Brian said:

It will be interesting to see if this brings about new safety regulations regarding shipping large lithium batteries...

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Most likely that depends on who's picking up the tab for the losses. 

Insurers can bring a lot of power to bear on changing regs that potentially endanger their profits.

[BlackSheep214]

BMWs too....

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 2/20/2022 at 5:09 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

True, but what's always hard for me to totally swallow in "accidental" catastrophic losses like this is the apparent lack of training and preparedness of a crew to deal with what would initially be a small, easily controlled fire.

Shades of the Bonhomme Richard debacle.

“ 'Although the fire was started by an act of arson, the ship was lost due to an inability to extinguish the fire,' according to the investigation, which was written by Vice Adm. Scott Conn, then-commander of Third Fleet.

...the Navy’s investigation into the fire found that the Bonhomme Richard’s crew was ill-prepared and under-trained to contain the fire once it broke out. 

'Once the fire started, the response effort was placed in the hands of inadequately trained and drilled personnel from a disparate set of uncoordinated organizations that had not fully exercised together and were unfamiliar with basic issues to include the roles and responsibilities of the various responding entities,' reads the investigation."

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True. But adequate training costs money. If there is no consequence for poor training there is no incentive to do it. Most companies feel it's easier to clean up the mess rather than do it right.

Edited February 20, 2022 by bobthehobbyguy
Clairify and add addition thought.

[Rodent]

  On 2/20/2022 at 1:39 AM, iamsuperdan said:

Being that it's all VW Group:

 

Volkswagen ID.4

Audi e-tron

Porsche Taycan

Porsche Panamera e-hybrid

Porsche Cayenne e-hybrid

I'm guessing of the 4000 vehicles on board, at least 1000 have Li batteries.

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Most everything else that Audi makes is a 48-volt mild hybrid now and those batteries are LI as well. Obviously not anywhere as large, but a ship full of LI batteries could make an interesting "thermal event"

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 2/20/2022 at 6:31 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

True. But adequate training costs money. If there is no consequence for poor training there is no incentive to do it. Most companies feel it's easier to clean up the mess rather than do it right.

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There was a time in the military when failure to maintain adequate standards of proficiency had significant consequences for both officers and the men serving under them.

The consequences to a civilian shipping company will become an inability to get cargos, as insurers refuse to accept the risk inherent in poorly trained crews.

 

[John M.]

Glad to know that the entire crew was able to escape. The loss could knock on $300 million when it's all said and done including the cost to tow the ship to where ever it'll be finally towed to.

Edited February 20, 2022 by John M.

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 2/20/2022 at 8:18 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

There was a time in the military when failure to maintain adequate standards of proficiency had significant consequences for both officers and the men serving under them.

The consequences to a civilian shipping company will become an inability to get cargos, as insurers refuse to accept the risk inherent in poorly trained crews.

 

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Exactly. And when cargos can't be moved or the insurance cost is greater than the cost of training properly, will  the shipping companies train the crews properly.  Unfortunately this is the mentality for lots of companies these days.