Acceptance of 3D printed models?

[jdhog]

I tried to search this topic, but the phrase "3D" is too short to get results.  I've have been really into 3D printing for the last several months.  I have purchased several "kits" designed by Andrey Bezrodny on cgtrader.com.  He designs some really great stuff.  If you haven't seen his work, you can find it here:  https://www.cgtrader.com/designers/andrey-bezrodny

I'm almost finished with my first completely printed kit.  I have really enjoyed working with resin and the newness of the whole concept.  It has be interested in building again.

I've noticed on several Facebook groups that 3D printed kits aren't widely accepted.  As a matter of fact, I've seen several people get really angry when someone posts a 3D printed build.

What's the opinion here?  Personally, I think it adds to the hobby.  Let's face it, scale modelers aren't getting younger.  Maybe 3D printing will attract new people to the hobby?  Just trying to gauge the temperature in the room.

Thanks folks.  I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions.

Edited February 16 by jdhog

[Ace-Garageguy]

I'm an old fossil, and the absolute BEST 1/24 scale model I've ever seen was Bill Cunningham's largely 3D printed Birdcage Maserati.

Edited February 16 by Ace-Garageguy

[jdhog]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'm an old fossil, and the absolute BEST 1/24 scale model I've ever seen was Bill Cunningham's largely 3D printed Birdcage Maserati.

I agree.  That is a masterpiece.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 minutes ago, jdhog said:

I agree.  That is a masterpiece.  

Thing is though, it took every skill in the book to build it, including all the usual ones like scratch-building, hand fitting parts, painting, vac-forming clear bits, and even some machine-work.

3D printing is NOT a substitute for mastering all the eye-hand skills, but it's a wonderful tool in any modeler's box.  

EDIT: ...if for no other reason than it produces SYMMETRY in things like body shells that even the best scratch-builder on the planet would be hard-pressed to achieve.

Edited February 16 by Ace-Garageguy

[NOBLNG]

I must admit that on an emotional level, I feel like it is cheating a bit. Maybe I’m just jealous because I don’t have a printer.😕 But on an intellectual level, I know it is just another approach to the hobby. It’s really no different than building a highly detailed kit. Someone designed and cast them, so….🤷‍♂️ You still need the skills to assemble and finish the model. I don’t enter competitions and I’m sure folks who do have their own opinions.

[jdhog]

10 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

I must admit that on an emotional level, I feel like it is cheating a bit. Maybe I’m just jealous because I don’t have a printer.😕 But on an intellectual level, I know it is just another approach to the hobby. It’s really no different than building a highly detailed kit. Someone designed and cast them, so….🤷‍♂️ You still need the skills to assemble and finish the model. I don’t enter competitions and I’m sure folks who do have their own opinions.

Yeah, I get that completely.  I accept that I do not have the time or talent to actually design a vehicle, but I am enjoying assembling ones other people have designed.

I don't enter competitions either. 

[Can-Con]

Parts is parts. 

Doesn't matter if they came in a model box or 3-D printer.

[Chariots of Fire]

Like Ace says.  Just another tool in the toolbox.  Can anyone explain the difference between a 3D printed model kit from one that came from injection molding that came from someone making the mold to begin with?  Each came with an abundance of pre-kit work on somebody's part.

[KMcc]

I decided to get into 3D printing because I needed parts for subjects that couldn't be found at aftermarket suppliers. Having a job that required CADD skills was definitely a plus, but I also never contemplated buying one of those mini machining centers because, even though I admire the parts that modelers on this forum make with them, it's just not something I would get into. Everybody has their own comfort level when it comes to handling the tasks to put together their models. As said earlier, "parts is parts".

[Tabbysdaddy]

They take a different type of glue, but as long as it still gets me high I'm okay with that. 

[peteski]

We had a lengthy discussion about similar dilemma: what is considered scrachbuilding.  3-D printing came up in there too.  Who cares what technology created a scale model?  It's all good! The end result (the pleasure of building, and a finished scale model) is what counts.

[stitchdup]

Does it matter as long as you get the results you wanted? Is a 3d printed kit any different to an aftermarket kit? is ford better than chevy? at some point it just comes down to personal preference and no amount of waffle will change anybodies mind. to me its just having the aftermarket next my bench as i cant 3d draw yet but once i get that learned it will become more of a tool. I like the way its opened up building for me. Its no secret i like vw but the aftermarket was sadly lacking. 5 years ago in 1/24 there was a couple of van kits , a couple of ghias, numerous bugs, some random wheels and one aftermarket engine kit. Now i cant even count the different variations of engines, wheels and bodies available. If i was to decide i want to build a facel vega tomorrow its as simple as finding a file and setting the printer running, and i could be building it by lunchtime. I couldn't order a kit and be building that quickly and who makes a facel vega kit anyway? I think 3d printing has brought more younger bulders to the hobby as well. before most tuner kits were curbside (nothing wrong ith that, i enjoy building them) and younger folk saw the muscle car kits with thepretty healthy aftermarket andfull engine bays and sorta felt a bit leftout. Now some of them are coming back as the bits they felt kits to be lacking previously can be purchased. besides, once its all painted and assembled, unless you tell them who's going to know?

[jdhog]

5 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

Does it matter as long as you get the results you wanted? Is a 3d printed kit any different to an aftermarket kit? is ford better than chevy? at some point it just comes down to personal preference and no amount of waffle will change anybodies mind. to me its just having the aftermarket next my bench as i cant 3d draw yet but once i get that learned it will become more of a tool. I like the way its opened up building for me. Its no secret i like vw but the aftermarket was sadly lacking. 5 years ago in 1/24 there was a couple of van kits , a couple of ghias, numerous bugs, some random wheels and one aftermarket engine kit. Now i cant even count the different variations of engines, wheels and bodies available. If i was to decide i want to build a facel vega tomorrow its as simple as finding a file and setting the printer running, and i could be building it by lunchtime. I couldn't order a kit and be building that quickly and who makes a facel vega kit anyway? I think 3d printing has brought more younger bulders to the hobby as well. before most tuner kits were curbside (nothing wrong ith that, i enjoy building them) and younger folk saw the muscle car kits with thepretty healthy aftermarket andfull engine bays and sorta felt a bit leftout. Now some of them are coming back as the bits they felt kits to be lacking previously can be purchased. besides, once its all painted and assembled, unless you tell them who's going to know?

This is a great post.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I can't understand why anyone would be opposed to 3D printing being added to kit sources...as long as it's quality printing, and there is some pretty marginal stuff getting done by folks at home. Not all of the pre-printed offerings are styrene-kit quality, either, and some files look phoned-in, oddly proportioned messes by the typical slap-dash cowboys just after a quick-and-dirty profit.

I've bought some things, mostly engines and gearboxes and wheels and other greasy bits that would never have been available had somebody not designed files and printed the them. Nobody would ever have tooled some of the gorgeous stuff makers like Texas3D and Mad Mike do, for instance.

The ONLY thing I'm hesitant about far as 3D goes is longevity. We geezers have been dealing with tire-melt and creeping, warping acetate and poorly-cast resin stuff for decades, and I've already seen some of the beautiful 3D parts I bought early on warp into uselessness while sitting on the shelf.

Time will tell.

Edited February 19 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[bobthehobbyguy]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Thing is though, it took every skill in the book to build it, including all the usual ones like scratch-building, hand fitting parts, painting, vac-forming clear bits, and even some machine-work.

3D printing is NOT a substitute for mastering all the eye-hand skills, but it's a wonderful tool in any modeler's box.  

EDIT: ...if for no other reason than it produces SYMMETRY in things like body shells that even the best scratch-builder on the planet would be hard-pressed to achieve.

Good points.

I think one thing that is missed is how the judging process works. Contests are judged on fundamentals. Clean assembly and well executed paint.

You can scratchbuild all the parts, add every photoetch and detailing accessory but if the finish is bad or there are other flaws the model is not going to be a contender. 

[Chinacar]

I think 3D printing will take the hobby to a higher level of realism, creating things that are unavailable and introduce an opportunity of building new skills for modellers. It mimics how real cars are built today with data rather than eyeballing, but let's not forget there are still shops that eyeball and that's ok too. Some people will go out and get 3D prints or may even buy a printer, so kudos to them for trying something a little different. The people that scratch build or stick with OOB kit building, kudos to them also for continuously contributing to a wonderful hobby. It's a great time in the hobby when we have such a valuable tool in our hands. The model manufacturers may be impacted and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't developed a plan to address this already. Hopefully they are figuring out how to access manufacture of cheap printers for customers or simplified software to create or a printing service offering different limited edition models every few weeks...I know if I was a model company executive that's what I would be doing.

It's a great time in the hobby.

 

[Aaronw]

It is new so you are going to see push back from some.

I wasn't around to see it, but I'm sure there were those who thought the sky was falling when plastic started replacing balsa wood.

 

I think 3D printing is great and I'm looking forward to learning to use the new tools.

 

 

 

[Straightliner59]

8 hours ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

They take a different type of glue, but as long as it still gets me high I'm okay with that. 

Here in Colorado, we have legal things for that, that are much safer!😁 The containers are very handy, as well!

I have nothing at all against 3-D printed models. I'd echo what others have said: It's another tool in the box, or another path up the mountain. There are some parts I wouldn't bother trying to do, anymore, due to the superiority of 3-D prints. Carburetors, are a start. Fireball's carbs are unbelievably beautifully detailed. I wouldn't even mess with any others, much less try to build one. While I am certain it could be done, it's not worth the time, or effort. The transformer for the magneto of my Nostalgia Top Fuel car has close to 30 pieces, in it. I am happy with it, but, it's not anywhere close to what a 3-D printer could achieve.

Edited February 17 by Straightliner59

[Bills72sj]

9 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I can't understand why anyone would be opposed to 3D printing being added to kit sources...as long as it's quality printing, and there is some pretty marginal stuff getting done by folks at home. Not all of the pre-printed offerings are styrene-kit quality, either, and some files look phoned-in, oddly proportioned messes by the typical slap-dash cowboys just after a quick-and-dirty profit.

I've bought some things, mostly engines and gearboxes and wheels and other greasy bits that would never have been available had somebody not designed files and printed the things. Nobody would ever have tooled some of the gorgeous stuff makers like Texas3D and Mad Mike do, for instance.

The ONLY thing I'm hesitant about far as 3D goes is longevity. We geezers have been dealing with tire-melt and creeping, warping acetate and poorly-cast resin stuff for decades, and I've already seen some of the beautiful 3D parts I bought early on warp into uselessness while sitting on the shelf.

Time will tell.

I am in the same club. My 3D printed 4 post hoists sag if the are left in the lifted position too long. However, I am glad I have them for my diorama. I have a 3D printed 1969 Grand Prix that I paid WAY too much money for. The chassis is all wrong but I bough a 70 Monte Carlo kit to fix that. I have enough parts box parts to make a go of it. I just am not yet capable to be able to body work all the layer texturing out of the body.

[stitchdup]

14 minutes ago, Bills72sj said:

 I just am not yet capable to be able to body work all the layer texturing out of the body.

i find a quick rub with a 400 or 600 grit sanding sponge followed by automotive filler primer the best way. when i'm applying the primer i hold the can pretty low to the model so its spraying across the layer lines rather than painting normally. i find it saves on paints as more catches in the ridges. I alternate direction with each pass too. If there any finer detail i want to save i mask it off before starting and will brush it afterwards. Once you get the primer method for 3d prints sorted in a way that works for you, the rest is pretty much the same as any other build

[bobss396]

By the same token, I have seen and bought a few real crappy 3D parts. I had a tow truck push bumper, so awful I used it to take dimensions off it to build my own from plastic stock. I see 1/25 scale carburetors that look more like 1/32 pieces. Also I have a couple of sets of headers that are on the smallish side. I will probably give them to someone that I don't like.

Conventional resin cast parts have always needed work to get some of them to look passable. Norm Veber's stuff is an exception to that rule, he casts very clean parts. Carburetors are one of the hardest things to make and look nice. They are one of the first 3D parts I have plunked my money down for. Now I have it narrowed down to a few sources I like.

We had one guy (who has passed) in the club that made conventional-cast resin Holleys. The model he made to cast it by was astonishing in itself. Not a dud in any of them he had produced. 

I agree that parts are parts. The 3D market will in time make better and better parts with experience, better materials and better printers. We did a lot of 3D printing at work before I retired in 2020. We were able to quickly make prototype parts for fit-checks and we could hold close tolerances. Assembly tooling was another thing we made in quantity. 

[peteski]

19 hours ago, jdhog said:

I've noticed on several Facebook groups that 3D printed kits aren't widely accepted.  As a matter of fact, I've seen several people get really angry when someone posts a 3D printed build.

I already posted my opinion on this but I think I would like a further explanation of this (no, I'm not on FB, and not planning on joining).

What modeling groups are those?  People who build standard injection-molded polystyrene kits? Or some group that builds models from scratch maybe?

What specific reasons those individuals give for rejecting 3-D printed models?  How about urethane resin cast models which have been around for long time? Are those models ok in their eyes?  How about resin cast models produced in a mold where a 3-D printed model was used as a master?

This lack of acceptance seems very silly and limiting.  It absolutely makes no sense, but in today's highly polarized world, this is not unexpected.  Someone gets some totally unreasonable notion about something, posts it on the Internet, and suddenly we have a mob.  Some of those people need a "clue bat".

[bobthehobbyguy]

I think there will always be a group who resists accepting change. They've always done things one way and are not open minded enough to see the possibilities of new technology.

When aftermarket parts became more readily available there was a cry that it was checkbook modeling and was going to ruin the hobby.

[Ace-Garageguy]

12 hours ago, Aaronw said:

I wasn't around to see it, but I'm sure there were those who thought the sky was falling when plastic started replacing balsa wood.

I was around when many of the old-school model railroad craftsmen railed against the introduction of injection-molded plastic kits, and even scratch-building from styrene stock. If your buildings and rolling stock weren't made from wood and cardstock, and your locomotives weren't cast or machined or fabricated from metal, you weren't doing it right.

Being a kid at the time, and lacking any kind of scratch-building or "serious" modeling skills, I would have been excluded from scale model railroading had it not been for the availability of injection-molded stuff for reasonable money.

HOWEVER...I envied the geezers who could build something from nothing, and began a lifelong quest to develop the requisite skills, collect the tools, etc...but I'm STILL grateful that good quality plastic is available, 'cause I'll never have the time to scratch-build everything I'd like to have, or even to build it all from "craftsman kits".

Same kinda goes for 3D printing. One car I really REALLY want in scale is this Chrysler-Ghia showcar. It was on the cover of one of my first little-kid car books, and I've never forgotten it. I'll also never take the time to carve one from a block of wood, but 3D printing makes it relatively easily obtainable.

 

Edited February 17 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[Speedpro]

21 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

One car I really REALLY want in scale is this Chrysler-Ghia showcar.

@Ace-Garageguy, I was reading your post and got to the phrase "Chrysler- Gia Showcar" and saw the picture, Just had to share with you that I used to work on this exact car that is in the picture I posted. Its easy to look at a picture of this car and think "Man, is that beautiful. But when its right in front of you, It's more of a "WOW". Worked on this car for 10+ years a couple times a year. One of the scariest cars I'v ever worked on because Its a aluminum body! Had to be so so carefull. You think that car is something, You should see what's in that garage in the picture. $$$

Speedpro