SOME CURRENT ROUND 2 INFO TODAY...

[Rob Hall]

Are Round-2 kits bought by retiring babyboomers, for nostalgia reasons, to relive (part) of their childhood?

Just wondering...

I think that is the single biggest demographic in the US buying models currently.  Hence all the vintage kit reissues from Round 2 and the vintage subjects from Moebius and Revell.   Round 2--from their slot cars, their Auto World, Johnny Lightning die cast brands to AMT, MPC, Round 2 and Polar Lights kits are targeting the Baby Boomers.  Tom Lowe is a Baby Boomer--definitely has a good feel for what is collectible amongst his peers...from his previous company (Playing Mantis) to Round 2, he's made lots of Baby Boomer collectibles (i.e. man cave/storage unit content).     Been that way for a while now... at some point that gravy train is going to get to the end of the line, but not yet..

 (I'm a statistical outlier in that I'm a Gen Xer that likes a lot of the vintage subjects, in addition to modern subjects). 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Rob Hall

[Casey]

Is this a continuation of the original Jeepster tool?

Yes, it is. I picked up two of the Stevens reissues when they were $13 or so at Tuesday Morning, and opened one up to find it was both molded in white and better than I remembered. I don't recall seeing much flash on the most recent reissue, though, but there were heavy sink marks on three of the four stock chrome plated wheel covers which remain in the kit. IIRC the body shell had a cardboard support taped to it to prevent breakage/warpage, too. The leaf springs are actually quite nice IMHO...pics in another topic. 

[Bucky]

Is it the same Jeepster that came in the old Autoscape kit? The one with a plastic base, and cardboard background for display purposes?

[niteowl7710]

James, I hear ya. But that actually bolsters my comment- the casual hobbyist, walks in to a hobby shop. Sees AMT kits for $31.95, and... that's not exactly a selling point to bring in that casual hobbyist.Plus, he just may be wise enough to turn that box over, and see that parts layout. Possible.... just may recognize it's the same kit he had way back when. 
That may sell the kit. Or, that may make him put it back.
Like anything in life, for many of us, price wins. 
In my life, I have put stuff back on the shelf due to price. And I don't mean just in hobby shops.
At what point does it all become too much?
Me, I have enough stash. I will never get to build them all.
I hope you guys can buy them. Hate to see them fail.
Of course, we're not getting any younger here, either.

No argument from me on prices, as I have a huge stash as well.  I grew up building AMT kits mostly (after the MPC merger) and so a lot of the stuff Round2 is doing is stuff I either already built, or still have a copy of from the Ertl days.  

But again for the casual guy shopping at Hobby Lobby, with the 40% off coupon that $31.95 kit clocks in under $20 before taxes.  Our local plastic pusher who is more concerned with selling in volume has been pricing these new upcharged Round2 kits at $24, which is still less than the Moebius stuff is selling for...and about $2-3 over Revell.  Anyone pricing those kits at the MSRP (remember the Stevens prices as we post them here are the suggest MSRP, not the cost) and trying to legitimately sell them for that much has their margins all out of whack and trying to pass through a nearly 100% mark-up from the wholesale distribution price.

The one danger I see in the consistent creeping of U.S. prices is that they are reaching that tipping point where they are now as - or more - expensive than their Asian competitors.  I'm looking at my HLJ order sheet here and all of the Hasegawa kits that are either new or modified (1st Gen Civic, 2002 Turbo) are current selling for less than $24.  Aoshima modified reissues are selling for around $22, and the older tool already paid off stuff is around $18.  The only kits that routinely cost more than a U.S. domestic kit - at online/LHS pricing - are Tamiya, and the niche manufacturers like Beemax, Belkits, Ebbro, etc.  The rallying call of "Japanese kits are too expensive" is fading away every 6 months when Revell or Round2 kick the price up another $1...

Edited October 25, 2017 by niteowl7710

[Casey]

Is it the same Jeepster that came in the old Autoscape kit? The one with a plastic base, and cardboard background for display purposes?

Yes, the Commando kit is the same as found in the Auto Scape version:

[keyser]

Does ANYONE here buy these things at retail?? Really??

All the screaming about the prices and "I bought one for $1.49 in '62" with other threads about HL shelf watches and Ollies $5-7 sales?

Plus shows and everyplace else? 

Nobody's holding a gun your head. But companies are in business to make money and pay for old and new tools. AMT paid for the tools whenever. Fundimensions paid for some tools etc. Round 2 JUST bought these tools, have to pay the bank back. 

Don't like the price? Find one of old issues for less. 

"I bought a Mustang new in '64 for $3200. I want new one for same money!!11!!"

Go hunt $.05 candybars while you wait. 

Casey, Ace, as always, thanks for your and others input. 

I'm getting a wheat penny out to go buy gum.

 

Edited October 25, 2017 by keyser

[Mike999]

For some reason, that '58 Edsel kit has been fairly common at the local Wednesday Flea Market. I've found 3 of them there: 1 "Pro-Shop" pre-painted version for $5.00, and 2 of the regular kits for similar prices. One had the frame partly painted, but was complete, so no problem.  I needed one for an Amblewagon ambulance conversion. As others have said, it's a very good kit with lots of useful parts. So I'll pick them up when I see them reasonably priced.

Today was a bust at the Flea Market.  A few overpriced modern NASCAR kits, and a Revell 59 Impala convertible, shrink-wrapped.  Seller was asking $20 and went into an annoying pitch about "rare, hard to find, brings more than that on eBay."  So I passed. Didn't even make an offer, since I already have the kit.  And if I want one, I'll wait for a seller who doesn't check eBay. :-) 

[Casey]

 

I'm getting a wheat penny out to go buy gum.

Better be Blackjack or Clove. 

Yeah, I'm with you and the others on the "who pays retail" line of thinking. I'm not saying I never do, but it's rare that I don't buy an older issue on the secondary market instead of a new reissue, or, I just wait a few months or years when the price usually drops $10 or so. My goodness, you can buy the Monogram Datsun 4x4 pickup for $7.99(!) on eBay right now, and that was reissued just over three years ago.

Here's a forthcoming Round2 reissue taken directly from a website, and let's all note the price:

MPC887 MPC

*** COMING JANUARY 2018 ***  Jeep Commando "Mount 'N Goat" (Model Kit)  20% Off! (was $26.95)

1:25

$21.56

 

I have no problem paying $30 for a new reissue if the kit has a better/fuller/expanded decal sheet, extra pad printed tires, and isn't laden with mold flash on every third part, but as with all kits IMHO, subject trumps everything else. I did pay $31.00 for the reissued 1/20 AMC AMX kit at Hobbytown USA, which is a dollar or two more than I could've found one on eBay listed for, but there's also the instant gratification which only comes with an in-person purchase.  There are always other options if you don't need it NOW and don't want to pay full retail.

 

[Bucky]

eBay can be a BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH shoot. Sure, prices can be reasonable, but then, some of the shipping charges negate any savings. I always wanted to shop the local hobby shops, but those shops are not so "local", anymore. I hope to see more new tooling in the near future, as I already have a number of the "same kit in different boxes" issues! LOL 

[Spex84]

I do wonder at what point prices will become unsustainable. My local source of kits (hardware store with limited selection, but at least they had something!) is no longer carrying model cars...their supplier deemed car kits "too expensive" and cut them out of the catalogue.  In their case, the tipping point has been reached and it's game over.

I think the Round 2 re-issues are worth it for the awesome tires (a sore point in many of the 70s-90s reissues of the same kits) and fresh decal sheets. But when "worth it" is $45 in Canada, I'm certainly not buying many new kits! Heck, even junk kits on ebay are $40, thanks to the global shipping program that tacks $30 CAD shipping onto every kit. For that, I'd rather support a brick and mortar store...the closest of which is 3 hours drive away.  Ollies sounds nice. That's 3000km away, or $320 round trip. I wonder how many kits I could stuff in my luggage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brett Barrow]

The one danger I see in the consistent creeping of U.S. prices is that they are reaching that tipping point where they are now as - or more - expensive than their Asian competitors.  I'm looking at my HLJ order sheet here and all of the Hasegawa kits that are either new or modified (1st Gen Civic, 2002 Turbo) are current selling for less than $24.  Aoshima modified reissues are selling for around $22, and the older tool already paid off stuff is around $18.  The only kits that routinely cost more than a U.S. domestic kit - at online/LHS pricing - are Tamiya, and the niche manufacturers like Beemax, Belkits, Ebbro, etc.  The rallying call of "Japanese kits are too expensive" is fading away every 6 months when Revell or Round2 kick the price up another $1...

Japan has very stringent price-control regulations.  Basically, stuff isn't allowed to be increased more than inflation/cost of living increases.  It only directly affects straight reissues, but new & modified reissues need to be priced somewhere in the ballpark of other stuff on the shelf so it kinda has an effect on them as well.  If the US had the same regulations our kits would be in the $15-18 range.  .   

[Luc Janssens]

If the US had the same regulations our kits would be in the $15-18 range.  .   

And nothing but reissues....because I believe the Japanese hobby market is a larger one then the US, at least that's what I always heard,

Also the reason for the Round-2 price increase could be (I'm assuming here), that their typical run got even smaller, read less consumers buy their products.

For argument sake (I'm not taking a position, just trying to learn, find out) 

- Are the babyboomers who buy old new kits satisfied with their "back to childhood" experience when building?

- What are the kids (Gen-X?) of baby boomer (those who got into the hobby because of their dad) buying or want to buy?

-Who's buying kits of "today's" subject matter, and what's their age?

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Luc Janssens

[Brett Barrow]

And nothing but reissues....because I believe the Japanese hobby market is a larger one then the US, at least that's what I always heard,

Yeah, $15-18 reissues. $1.50 in 1960's dollars is like $15 today.    Of course we'd be paying like $5 for a banana, a lot of US consumer goods are priced way below inflation.  Japan hobby market is much larger, but like 95% Gundam/Sci-fi/Sexy figurines*.     The US is larger in "traditional" non-sci-fi scale model segments, which is why Tamiya often releases aircraft and armor models to North America and Europe before they are available domestically.    

* I kid with that number, but it's probably not that far off from the truth.  The president of Aoshima once told me that the domestic model kit market was Bandai way up top, then Tamiya, and then everyone else was just fighting for scraps.  

Also the reason for the Round-2 price increase could be (I'm assuming here), that their typical run got even smaller, read less consumers buy their products.

 

True, plus they really put a focus on improved decal sheets, and decal sheets are expensive, often a higher cost per kit than repopping the plastic parts.  Same is true with tires.  

- Are the babyboomers who buy old new kits satisfied with their "back to childhood" experience when building?

I don't know, but I'd probably be out of a job if they weren't...   

- What are the kids (Gen-X?) of baby boomer (those who got into the hobby because of their dad) buying or want to buy?

 

Gundam/Sci-fi and tabletop wargames like Warhammer or Flames of War.  World of Tanks has helped drive a few to armor models.  Car modeling isn't the modeling entry point that it used to be.  

-Who's buying kits of "contemporary" subject matter, and what's their age?

 

The only people I ever see buying current F1 and exotics and contemporary American cars are middle-age dudes older than me (I'm 40).   Any younger kids I see buying car models are almost always into muscle era up thru 80's.  Probably anecdotal, though.  

[Luc Janssens]

Yeah, $15-18 reissues. $1.50 in 1960's dollars is like $15 today.    Of course we'd be paying like $5 for a banana, a lot of US consumer goods are priced way below inflation.  Japan hobby market is much larger, but like 95% Gundam/Sci-fi/Sexy figurines*.     The US is larger in "traditional" non-sci-fi scale model segments, which is why Tamiya often releases aircraft and armor models to North America and Europe before they are available domestically.    

* I kid with that number, but it's probably not that far off from the truth.  The president of Aoshima once told me that the domestic model kit market was Bandai way up top, then Tamiya, and then everyone else was just fighting for scraps.  

 

True, plus they really put a focus on improved decal sheets, and decal sheets are expensive, often a higher cost per kit than repopping the plastic parts.  Same is true with tires.  

I don't know, but I'd probably be out of a job if they weren't...   

 

Gundam/Sci-fi and tabletop wargames like Warhammer or Flames of War.  World of Tanks has helped drive a few to armor models.  Car modeling isn't the modeling entry point that it used to be.  

 

The only people I ever see buying current F1 and exotics and contemporary American cars are middle-age dudes older than me (I'm 40).   Any younger kids I see buying car models are almost always into muscle era up thru 80's.  Probably anecdotal, though.  

 

Thanks Brett!

 

[BVC500]

I picked up the hobby from my dad, and I'm generally only interested in exotics and contemporary road cars, and I'm 39.

[MrObsessive]

I've always been a bit confused with the defining of generations. I don't mean to sway a bit off topic here, but what constitutes a Gen-X'er, Millennial, etc??

I guess I'm considered a baby boomer (albeit near the tail end.......born in 1961).

I've always thought that kids are still building, just not model cars in abundance, at least not the cars that we lunatic fringers lust after.

[martinfan5]

I've always been a bit confused with the defining of generations. I don't mean to sway a bit off topic here, but what constitutes a Gen-X'er, Millennial, etc??

I guess I'm considered a baby boomer (albeit near the tail end.......born in 1961).

I've always thought that kids are still building, just not model cars in abundance, at least not the cars that we lunatic fringers lust after.

This is will give you an idea

http://socialmarketing.org/archives/generations-xy-z-and-the-others/

 

[MrObsessive]

Very interesting article! There is some truth about the "Boomers II" which I'm a part of it seems. I wouldn't relate culturally necessarily with someone born in '47 as opposed to someone in '57. A huge spread of years there with the whole "Baby Boomers", and the break-up of that generation into two separate groups makes a lot of sense.

BTW, I came into this hobby very late as opposed to friends of mine my age. Most were building models starting at age 7-8 (late '60's when models hit their stride). I wouldn't get hit with the model bug until I was 17 and a senior in high school. I can remember (circa 1978) when models were selling in the $2.00 range or thereabouts depending on where you got 'em.

Of course, wages weren't what they are now..........IIRC I was working for minimum wage back then which was around $2.50 an hour I believe.

[niteowl7710]

Japan has very stringent price-control regulations.  Basically, stuff isn't allowed to be increased more than inflation/cost of living increases.  It only directly affects straight reissues, but new & modified reissues need to be priced somewhere in the ballpark of other stuff on the shelf so it kinda has an effect on them as well.  If the US had the same regulations our kits would be in the $15-18 range.  .   

I don't dispute your point other than to say the reissues of 2017 are often times cheaper than the original kit cost was when originally produced. They seem to have figured out what their price point is on already paid for tooling and don't try to match it to current new run kits. Whereas Round2 and Revell will charge you effectively the same price (within a couple of bucks anyways) for both new tooling and reissues. I can certainly see how that's leaving a bad taste in people's mouths especially on the "ancient" Round2 stuff from the 60s and 70a that was paid for eons ago. It's like any other acquisition, sure Round2 had to pay for all of the tooling again and has to recoup their costs, but I would expect the biggest chunk of cost went to buying the names and trademarks of AMT, MPC, and to a lesser extent Polar Lights & Lindberg- rather than the actual physical assets.

[1972coronet]

I've always been a bit confused with the defining of generations. I don't mean to sway a bit off topic here, but what constitutes a Gen-X'er, Millennial, etc??

I guess I'm considered a baby boomer (albeit near the tail end.......born in 1961).

I've always thought that kids are still building, just not model cars in abundance, at least not the cars that we lunatic fringers lust after.

I belong to the Blank Generation ... and I can take it or leave it each time .

[Bob Ellis]

That's fine with me, as it's one of the best kits of that era from AMT IMHO, and my go-to kit when I need a nicely detailed, modern-era Pontiac V-8. Considering Round2 has two sizes of Goodyear Polyglas GT tires to choose from, this homage reissue seems like a no-brainer for them.

For those expecting a  '62 Bonneville, no dice

[AC Norton]

Does ANYONE here buy these things at retail?? Really??

All the screaming about the prices and "I bought one for $1.49 in '62" with other threads about HL shelf watches and Ollies $5-7 sales?

Plus shows and everyplace else? 

Nobody's holding a gun your head. But companies are in business to make money and pay for old and new tools. AMT paid for the tools whenever. Fundimensions paid for some tools etc. Round 2 JUST bought these tools, have to pay the bank back. 

Don't like the price? Find one of old issues for less. 

"I bought a Mustang new in '64 for $3200. I want new one for same money!!11!!"

Go hunt $.05 candybars while you wait. 

Casey, Ace, as always, thanks for your and others input. 

I'm getting a wheat penny out to go buy gum.

 

Hey Christian, just now noticed your posting,,,,,well, I'm shocked at your retail price comment...really, if I can't get tins of Campbell's soup for  not 1 cent more than .29 cents, well, I just WILL NOT eat that day....now way,,,, and if I actually have to PAY for gasoline to drive my SUV, well, I will push it around for the week until I see it back  to 1980 prices. As for kits, well, unless I can get a collection of mint, vintage, sealed, flawless items for no more  than 2 bucks a kit, and shipped to my door overnight express free,,,,well, WHO would possibly buy the guy out, right,,,,lol.... ...thanks for your comments, my friend, always enjoy them so much....best, the one, the only, the would never-pay-retail Ace....

[magicmustang]

Some Ford GT pics.  Nice detail for a snapper.

Note...this is a prototype of sorts, the Heritage color scheme might not match what comes in the box, and I believe the production kits will include the black pinstriping separating the colors on the 1:1    

Is it a prepainted (Gulf colors) body or white plastic?

Edited October 27, 2017 by magicmustang

[pack rat]

Is it a prepainted (Gulf colors) kit or white plastic?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the kit will be molded or prepainted blue.  I'm not sure about the orange/white portions or the black pinstriping (probably decals).

The one in my pics is an earlier molded-in-grey issue painted with Tamiya lacquers to match the Heritage color scheme as close as possible.  The production kits should be more accurate color-wise.     

[doggie427]

I belong to the Blank Generation ... and I can take it or leave it each time .