Changing Times, Changing Tastes

[peteski]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

To each his own, but I still maintain that you are never going to see cars from the 80s and 90s restored and maintained in the numbers that you see cars from the 50s and 60s.

Cars from that era just had a style and flair that later cars did not.

Well, you you put it that way, then I agree.  Of course 80s and 90s cars will never be restored or maintained in the numbers that the older cars were.  Like you said, there is entire industry devoted to producing replacement parts for them.  Plus there are not many of the 80s or 90s cars left to be restored - most of them were junked. That makes them rare and unique. But give it another 20 or 30 years, and even those 50s and 60s will become rare, and parts for them scarce.

But I disagree about style - some of the 80s and 90s cars are quite stylish. I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.  Plus, many of those cars hold nostalgic values for certain age group of people, and will always be a curiosity for the show attending public.  Like I said, at car shows I'm sick of seeing the same old "classics", but I'll gladly stop by, examine, and chat with the owner of an oddball Pacer, Gremlin or a Vega. Those to me are what makes vintage car shows interesting. Again, we all have different tastes.

[Matt Bacon]

The “Modern Classics” scene is thriving in the UK, usually focused on cars with a bit of “get up and go”, which I know is a rarer commodity in the US market. Hot hatches, Q-cars, sports saloons and all out GT or sports cars; European, British or JDM  manufacturers. It’s fuelled by “I wanted one of those as a kid” or “that was my favourite car in Gran Turismo..”, and the fact that the cars a relatively affordable. My pipe dream classic for years was a Triumph GT6, but the days when you could pick one up for £5k are long gone. I switched allegiances when good GT6’s headed north of £15k, and I discovered you could get a concours condition mid nineties Jaguar XK8 or good fire-breathing XKR for under £10k instead. Still a pipe dream, but a top quality first or second generation MX-5 for £2500 or even the rare groove MX-3 V6 for under £1000 is a lot more realistic and loads of fun in either case...

best,

M.

[MrObsessive]

2 hours ago, peteski said:

Like I said, at car shows I'm sick of seeing the same old "classics", but I'll gladly stop by, examine, and chat with the owner of an oddball Pacer, Gremlin or a Vega. Those to me are what makes vintage car shows interesting. Again, we all have different tastes.

Not long ago I was at a car show which had its share of muscle cars from the '60's and '70's, '50's classics and your modern day muscle such as Chargers and Challengers, Mustangs and Camaros.

What was getting the MOST attention and had a crowd around it?? A late '70's Ford Fairmont! I saw lots of young folks around it as they more than likely never seen one but the curiosity factor was with them big time on that one. I kinda scratched my head over that as that was one car I was never crazy about, but I did like the stylish Futura which always reminded me of a 3/4 scale T-Bird.

As has been said, one never knows what will be collectible and "wanted" and what won't. I'm sure in the early '60's folks thought the '55-'57 Chevy's would never be worth anything more than they were. There were just so many of them as they were as common as grass. Now we've seen where prices have gone with those where even your more mundane four door sedans can fetch a pretty penny.

It'll be interesting come next decade what will be the hot item as far as cars are concerned.

53 minutes ago, Matt Bacon said:

Still a pipe dream, but a top quality first or second generation MX-5 for £2500 or even the rare groove MX-3 V6 for under £1000 is a lot more realistic and loads of fun in either case...

best,

M.

I remember those! You NEVER see those here in the states anymore! Unfortunately, I think the dreaded tinworm claimed many of them as I can't remember the last time I've seen one going down the road. FAST little car especially with that V6 and if one can be had, I don't think they'd be that expensive as you said.

[SfanGoch]

You can grab this one for under a grand

1994 Mazda MX-3

[Richard Bartrop]

10 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Anything built before 1995 is now considered an "antique" or "collectable", yet you're not going to go to a car show and see rows of 1991 Oldsmobiles or 1987 Dodges at any point in the future.

These cars will never be collectable, they just become junk.........and then the next generation of "boremobiles".

 

 

Steve

These people  don't seem to agree:

Radwood, an event dedicated to cars from the '80s and '90s.

That modern cars will never be as desirable as old cars is a constant refrain,  and it continues to be wrong.

[tbill]

It would be interesting to see what ‘old cars’ are popular 50 years from now , but that would make me 100, so I probably won’t know the answer.

[SfanGoch]

I'll let you know. I'm 60 and plan on hanging around until at least 2080.

[MrObsessive]

11 minutes ago, tbill said:

It would be interesting to see what ‘old cars’ are popular 50 years from now , but that would make me 100, so I probably won’t know the answer.

Hee-Hee!
I'd be older still! I don't think I'll be around even that long! Either which way, one never knows about tomorrow!

[Classicgas]

31 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

I'll let you know. I'm 60 and plan on hanging around until at least 2080.

Let me know how well that works out for you.?

[SfanGoch]

Longevity is a family trait. We don't punch out until we're ready.

[Sam I Am]

...

Edited March 14, 2020 by Sam I Am
Accidental double post.

[Sam I Am]

While aesthetically speaking , most grocery getters from the '80s have no appeal to me. I did however own two cars from the '80s that I  would own again in a heartbeat,  and gladly restore them. They were both freaky fast and would out handle pretty much anything from earlier decades. 

1985 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo

1989 Ford Taurus SHO

...and yes, I would gladly take them to a car show.

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, peteski said:

Well, you you put it that way, then I agree.  Of course 80s and 90s cars will never be restored or maintained in the numbers that the older cars were.  Like you said, there is entire industry devoted to producing replacement parts for them.  Plus there are not many of the 80s or 90s cars left to be restored - most of them were junked. That makes them rare and unique.

That's all I'm saying.

 

You also have to take into consideration what has happened to the "car culture" in the past 30 years.

It's nothing like it used to be.

Cars have increasingly become recyclable, utilitarian appliances to the population.

There's just not nearly the interest in cars today as there was when we were young.

People in this discussion are alluding to the fact that interest in '50s and '60s vehicles is waning due to our generation getting older and disappearing, which is true.

But I don't see the next generation holding much interest in cars at all.

 

I remember growing up in a time when much of your identity as a young man centered on what you were driving.

Today, it's just a way to get from one point to the next for most.

 

I remember noticing this difference in attitude towards cars when my son began driving.

I thought that as a young 16 year old man, he would be interested in cars naturally as I was as a teenager.

I was absolutely wrong.

I tried to get him interested, and even bought him a 1998 Honda Prelude, but he really didn't care much.

As long as it had 4 wheels and got him to where he wanted to go, that was all that mattered.

He was fairly popular in high school and had a lot of friends and none of them gave a rat's behind about what they were driving.

We just have to admit that there has been a rather large paradigm shift in attitudes towards automobiles in the past couple of decades, and this is not going to translate into vast parking lots full of 80s and 90s cars with hundreds of spectators ogling them.

Granted, there is always going to be some interest in these cars, but it will never be to the scale that we see with older cars presently.

 

In my state of Minnesota, every June, a car show is put on at the Minnesota state fair grounds called "Back to the '50s".

Each year it draws in the neighborhood of 12,000 cars from the '20s to 1964 on display,  and up to 100,000 visitors every year.

 

Does anybody really seriously think that there will ever be a "Back to the '80s"  show someday that will draw this kind of interest?

Like it or not, we just have to be realistic about where our car culture, and our hobby for that matter, are headed.

 

 

Steve

[Richard Bartrop]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

 

Does anybody really seriously think that there will ever be a "Back to the '80s"  show someday that will draw this kind of interest?

Like it or not, we just have to be realistic about where our car culture, and our hobby for that matter, are headed.

 

 

Steve

Already happening.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/03/28/radwood-rocks-at-hooptiecon-2018

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g23799645/radwood-philadelphia-2018-car-show/

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/09/23/radwood-detroit-2019-show-report/

When '50s cars were new,  enthusiasts dismissed the idea that anyone would collect that gaudy junk.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Richard Bartrop

[StevenGuthmiller]

36 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

Already happening.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/03/28/radwood-rocks-at-hooptiecon-2018

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g23799645/radwood-philadelphia-2018-car-show/

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/09/23/radwood-detroit-2019-show-report/

When '50s cars were new,  enthusiasts dismissed the idea that anyone would collect that gaudy junk.

Granted Richard, I said that there will always be some interest in these cars, but 3 shows over the past few years does not a "movement" make.

You have to remember that there are still a lot of people who own these cars.

They are only a couple of decades old and there are still a fair number of them on the roads.

But as time passes and these cars begin to deteriorate, is there going to be a large number of people interested enough to spend tens of thousands of dollars to restore the run of the mill family cars from this era?

Of course there will always be interest in the Porsches, Corvettes, Camaros, etc, regardless of their vintage, but the vast majority of the cars sold are run of the mill GM, Ford, etc, family vehicles.

 

Think of it in this respect.

The shows that you cited above featured a few hundred cars and a few thousand people attending over a 3 year period, and who knows how many of those people and cars have traveled to attend all three events.

The "Back to the 50s" event that I referred to was just one event of probably thousands that occur every year with likely millions of spectators world wide.

If these cars from the 80s and 90s are going to garner the same kind of attention and following in the years to come, there is a vast amount of real estate that will have to be covered.

 

Forgive me, but I just don't see it happening.

 

Understand, I don't have the slightest animosity towards these cars or any other.

I'm just stating my opinion that I have very large doubts that these type of cars are ever going to rise to the popularity of the stuff from a much earlier time.

 

 

 

Steve

[chepp]

I'm just thinking out loud, but maybe there will be an anti-car angle for some car collectors/customizers. As an example that I'm trying to repress the thought of, there was an especially hideously modified gold '70s AMC (Gremlin, Pacer?) in the main building near the pinstripers at the Grand National Roadster Show last month. Maybe cars like that will be part of the future of car culture. A new Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure is being filmed -- if they include the flamed Pacer from the previous one it might be an indicator of interest in that sort of thing.

[Richard Bartrop]

 

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Understand, I don't have the slightest animosity towards these cars or any other.

I'm just stating my opinion that I have very large doubts that these type of cars are ever going to rise to the popularity of the stuff from a much earlier time.

Steve

The Radwood thing is just starting. Give it time.  Gen Xers and younger just love their '80s nostalgia.   Hollywood already throws billions at scratching that particular itch.

People still love other cars, and that's great.  Even the article said that any lapse of interest was mostly due to  practical issues.  And if Brass era cars can make a comeback,  why not other eras?

I know you're expressing an opinion.  I in turn am just offering up evidence as to why that opinion may not supported by reality.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Richard Bartrop

[StevenGuthmiller]

30 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

 

The Radwood thing is just starting. Give it time.  Gen Xers and younger just love their '80s nostalgia.   Hollywood already throws billions at scratching that particular itch.

People still love other cars, and that's great.  Even the article said that any lapse of interest was mostly due to  practical issues.  And if Brass era cars can make a comeback,  why not other eras?

I know you're expressing an opinion.  I in turn am just offering up evidence as to why that opinion may not supported by reality.

Fair enough Richard.

That's why we're here.

To offer opinions and discuss them, as well as talk all things model cars.

 

Only time will tell where this subject might go.

 

 

 

Steve

[Fat Brian]

The car culture for younger people is just different than in the past. There is a large segment that rejects high dollar concours builds and embraces the loserness of late 70s and 80s cars. This gave birth to Radwood and the 24 Hours of Lemons. Young people now don't have as much disposable income as previous generations due to our broken and corrupt non-education system so ones who like cars have found ways to have fun on a budget.

[Can-Con]

" looserness of late '70s and '80s cars" ?? 

Well then, I'm a looser baby, so why don't you kill me?

I'd love to have a clean '77-'79 Parisienne Brougham or Bonneville 2dr.  Maybe even consider trading my Trans Am for one. 

Around the time I got my licence ['82 ish ] one of my neighbors had one all in red primer, most of the excess trim shaved off. red velour ,bucket seat interior sitting low on a set of Cragar SS wheels.

 I thought that car was just about as cool as could be.  A few coats of real candy apple red and it would have been perfect. I've wanted one ever since.

I think how old you are plays a lot into what you like or don't like.

There were a couple "muscle cars" in town when I was that age. I remember a black cherry '70 Coronet  and a dark blue '66 or '67 Fairlane  ,,, that was about all I can remember. No '50s  or early '60s cars to speak of. I don't have any "fond memories" of them because there just weren't any left to remember.

The only tri-five Chevy in our town was a '55 2dr hardtop owned by the son of one of the local used car dealers. He was the south end of a north bound jack.  Remember this was the early '80s. My T/A is older now than that '55 was back than.

My cousins and I would have to walk by his father's place to get to out grandparents. If the car was in the year, which meant along the side of the road, we wouldn't even dare look in the windows from the street or he'd be out hollering at us to get away from the car. Maybe that soured me on older cars in general.  I'd much rather have a big '70s or early '80s car instead. 

Anyway, enough of this Gen-Xer's ramblings. I gotta go make myself a stiff drink .

People are gonna like what they like and there's no point in trying to figure out why they like it or change it. It just "IS". 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Can-Con

[Richard Bartrop]

There is a steampunk group here in Calgary, but most of them are about my age.  They make their own costumes and gadgets, and their workmanship is amazing.

[Toner283]

As far as four doors go some people love them some people hate them. But especially if you have young kids, their practicality can't be beat.

And I agree with the guys that say it's also what you grew up with. My folks had several G bodies when I was younger and by the time I was driving age they were just old cars that were everywhere. Add to that with them being a front-engine rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 already in them and it was kind of a no-brainer for me to fall into one of those. Which ended up being several of those over the years. A car that I've had for more than half of my life and I'm 42 now and I did an awful lot of racing with was an 81 Malibu 4 door. It was great because 5 litre Mustang for all over the place and most of them just scoffed when a 4-door offered to race. They stopped laughing pretty fast when I showed them the tail lights on my old girl. And when several of my friends all wanted to go somewhere together guess whose car we piled into. Since everybody else had coupes and pickup trucks, we ended up in the four door sedan.

I still have it, and although it does not get abused like it used to and is detuned a bunch from when it was a saturday night special, I still enjoy driving it. Some people say they're boxy and have no style but I grew up with it and I love it. More people understand nowadays than understood back then but regardless, I'll keep my four door.

[Motor City]

I have several old cars, and plastic interior parts are difficult to find if molded in a specific color to match the interior color.  Newer cars tend to have molded pieces in only two or three colors.     

My '68 and '77 Eldorados will never have the collectability of a GM intermediate from the 1960s or early 1970s, so I don't expect reproduction parts to be made.  I'm somewhat surprised that parts aren't available for Steven's '69 GP.  That car was very popular when new. 

I also have my late parents' Rivieras.  The '89 has an electronic dashboard (CRT screen).  The newer one has a more conventional dashboard, but both cars might as well be junked when the electronics fail. 

Eventually, there always seems to be some demand for cars of all eras.  Whether it's because a person's relative had one, or a neighbor or family friend, someone will want something that most wouldn't want if given to them.  With all of the electronics, armrests molded in to the door panels, parts meant to snap into place one time and damaged when any attempt is made to remove them, and engine compartments impossible to work on for the average person, most people won't want to bother preserving or restoring the majority of newer cars. 

[SfanGoch]

2 hours ago, Can-Con said:

Well then, I'm a looser baby, so why don't you kill me?

People here are already murdering the English language, Meester Campbell. Definately rediculous.
 

Quote

 

looser. Looser is defined as more relaxed, less tight or easier. An example of looser is curly hair after treating with a relaxing product. An example of looser is a pair of pants that were tight before you lost twenty pounds.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by SfanGoch

[SfanGoch]

"Looser" and "loser" are two different words with equally different meanings. The use of either changes the context of what you wrote. You're correct, though. I am an a-hole; but, I know the difference between "looser" and "loser".