Changing Times, Changing Tastes

[Can-Con]

8 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

"Looser" and "loser" are two different words with equally different meanings. The use of either changes the context of what you wrote. You're correct, though. I am an a-hole; but, I know the difference between "looser" and "loser".

Let it go Joe.

[SfanGoch]

To be precise, you took it and ran with the "a-hole" remark; but, no big deal to me Steve.. I've been called worse by people I know.

[1930fordpickup]

8 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

But as time passes and these cars begin to deteriorate, is there going to be a large number of people interested enough to spend tens of thousands of dollars to restore the run of the mill family cars from this era?

Of course there will always be interest in the Porsches, Corvettes, Camaros, etc, regardless of their vintage, but the vast majority of the cars sold are run of the mill GM, Ford, etc, family vehicles.

This is a good question and it depends on people my ages wallet and state of mind. I add the last part because it seems to me there are thousands of delusional people when it comes to the cars of the past. They are delusional because 90% of the 50's cars they restore are just run of the mill family cars. Nothing wrong with what they do I like these cars also but I understand that they are/were just run of the mill. 

[Classicgas]

Why does every thread have to have drama and people picking at each other? Take spelling corrections and other bs to pm and let's try to keep focus on the subject at hand.

[Classicgas]

9 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

This is a good question and it depends on people my ages wallet and state of mind. I add the last part because it seems to me there are thousands of delusional people when it comes to the cars of the past. They are delusional because 90% of the 50's cars they restore are just run of the mill family cars. Nothing wrong with what they do I like these cars also but I understand that they are/were just run of the mill. 

Not really. Parts just are not going to be available for these cars 30 -50 years down the road. I needed a transmission oil pan for a 02 Escort, took days to find one, Ford no longer makes them, and junkyard ones had the same troubles mine had. Same problem with my 00 Saturn, needed a valve cover, which are made of plastic!! mine was warped, new one not available, ONE junkyard had one so I had to chance it being warped. Fortunately it worked. Parts for modern vehicles simply are not going to be made indefinitely and are made soo poorly that junkyard examples may not be worth buying

[Toner283]

29 minutes ago, Classicgas said:

Not really. Parts just are not going to be available for these cars 30 -50 years down the road. I needed a transmission oil pan for a 02 Escort, took days to find one, Ford no longer makes them, and junkyard ones had the same troubles mine had. Same problem with my 00 Saturn, needed a valve cover, which are made of plastic!! mine was warped, new one not available, ONE junkyard had one so I had to chance it being warped. Fortunately it worked. Parts for modern vehicles simply are not going to be made indefinitely and are made soo poorly that junkyard examples may not be worth buying

There is a good possibility that 30 years down the road 3D printing will have advanced to the point that you can simply make the parts you need. Regardless of whether they are plastic, steel, aluminum or composite materials. And that the current "modern" technology (electronics) 30 years in the future will be stone-age tech than any 10 year old kid can fix in his parents basement.

[Classicgas]

Well I won't be here in 30 years to find out!?

[JollySipper]

I enjoy seeing cars from the '40s and '50s done as customs, and muscle cars from the '60s and '70s, but you know what I really would like to have? An '83-'86 Thunderbird! (I've maybe said that before....) They share a lot of the architecture with the Mustang of that era, so a lot of the go-fast goodies for them will work on the T-Bird. You can make quite the little muscle car from one....

They can be made into a pretty nice cruiser, too, if that's your thing.....

 

 

[Fat Brian]

14 hours ago, Can-Con said:

" looserness of late '70s and '80s cars" ?? 

Well then, I'm a looser baby, so why don't you kill me?

I'd love to have a clean '77-'79 Parisienne Brougham or Bonneville 2dr.  Maybe even consider trading my Trans Am for one.

 

Believe me, I'm there with you. I want an 80s 2 door Impala or Caprice in the worst way. The "loserness" is more in the eyes of car culture purists who only car about tri five Chevies and muscle cars. There is also character in loving something flawed.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Classicgas said:

Not really. Parts just are not going to be available for these cars 30 -50 years down the road. I needed a transmission oil pan for a 02 Escort, took days to find one, Ford no longer makes them, and junkyard ones had the same troubles mine had. Same problem with my 00 Saturn, needed a valve cover, which are made of plastic!! mine was warped, new one not available, ONE junkyard had one so I had to chance it being warped. Fortunately it worked. Parts for modern vehicles simply are not going to be made indefinitely and are made soo poorly that junkyard examples may not be worth buying

This is what I've been trying to say.

You may still see some of these cars around today, but I really doubt that restoring them 20 years down the road may even be possible.

 

 

 

Steve

[Fat Brian]

13 hours ago, Motor City said:

I also have my late parents' Rivieras.  The '89 has an electronic dashboard (CRT screen).  The newer one has a more conventional dashboard, but both cars might as well be junked when the electronics fail.

These problems have been increasing in the SC community and a few folks have started companies that work on restoring the electronics that commonly fail on these cars. For us it's the capacitors in the ECUs and the dash gauge cluster, and the LCD screens in the HVAC controls and stereo head unit. 

[Rbray47]

3 hours ago, Classicgas said:

Not really. Parts just are not going to be available for these cars 30 -50 years down the road. I needed a transmission oil pan for a 02 Escort, took days to find one, Ford no longer makes them, and junkyard ones had the same troubles mine had. Same problem with my 00 Saturn, needed a valve cover, which are made of plastic!! mine was warped, new one not available, ONE junkyard had one so I had to chance it being warped. Fortunately it worked. Parts for modern vehicles simply are not going to be made indefinitely and are made soo poorly that junkyard examples may not be worth buying

Try finding anything for one of these in a junkyard. Here locally about a year ago, a junkyard got one in. They wanted $250 for a tailgate that was badly dented and slightly rusty. 

[fivesuns]

I know I cannot go to town in either one of these without someone commenting or wanting to buy.  87 ram with last year of 225 /6 and 88 diplomat x-TN highway patrol car.

 

[Richard Bartrop]

People forget that, whatever their iconic status now,  those tri five Chevies were about as vanilla a transportation appliance as you could get.   In 1955, you basically bought a 1955 Chevrolet because you couldn't afford anything better.   They became the darling of the hotrod set because they were cheap and plentiful.

So, I can totally see people going nuts over some more modern piece of basic transportation.

 

[peteski]

21 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

People forget that, whatever their iconic status now,  those tri five Chevies were about as vanilla a transportation appliance as you could get.   In 1955, you basically bought a 1955 Chevrolet because you couldn't afford anything better.   They became the darling of the hotrod set because they were cheap and plentiful.

So, I can totally see people going nuts over some more modern piece of basic transportation.

Especially if 30-40 years from now, nobody will own a vehicle, and they will all be self-driving electric "transportation pods".  At that point anytime from the late 20th Cenrure (and even early 21st) might be highly coveted collectible.  Of course, those will be for display only, since roads will nto be suitable for human-driven vehicles. And even if they were retrofitted with self-driving kits, gasoline will not be readily available.  Ok, maybe a self-driving conversion, and an electric propulsion conversion will make them roadworthy (and a major head-turner, if there are even people still looking at vehicles at that time).  Future has many surprises for us . . .

[1930fordpickup]

39 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

People forget that, whatever their iconic status now,  those tri five Chevies were about as vanilla a transportation appliance as you could get.   In 1955, you basically bought a 1955 Chevrolet because you couldn't afford anything better.   They became the darling of the hotrod set because they were cheap and plentiful.

So, I can totally see people going nuts over some more modern piece of basic transportation.

 

Someone that gets it. 

Also you can get parts for the 55,56 57 Chevy;s now but that was not always the case.  Been around the people that collected these and sold these. They would pay more than a junkyard for a car take off the parts they needed and leave the car for the owner to resell.  My Aunt and uncle had a 4 door they sold 3 times. The last guy they told him you have to take the car before you remove any parts. Now they just order the parts out of a book or web site. 

[iamsuperdan]

I have some thoughts.

 

I’m speaking for myself, but probably also speaking for a significant chunk of the “car guy” population.

 You older guys who love the cars of the 30s, 40s, and 50s are pining for the cars of your youth. The cars you grew up with and the cars you could afford, which is why in the past there has been such a large number of these cars at shows. It’s also why these are the cars that were kitted the most by model manufacturers.

Now who are the people with the means to afford a car hobby? Is it the fixed income retired people? Nope. It’s guys like me. Guys in their 40s with a somewhat disposable income. But us 30 and 40 somethings for the most part, don’t pine for the 50s. We are after the cars of our youth; which means 70s, 80s, and possibly 90s. That’s why the number of cars from the mid-70s and newer are becoming more and more prevalent on the show circuit. Recent shows like Radwood are proving this. It’s not to say we don’t like and appreciate the older cars, but those aren’t what really get us going. And I think that if the modelling companies can’t see this and adapt, they will disappear. By rehashing old stuff, they are catering to a fan base that is quite literally dying off.

As for the youth of today, what can they afford to buy? Definitely not cool cars from the 50s or 60s. They're buying basic transportation from the 90s and 2000s. There's a reason Hondas and Toyotas are popular among youth. It's what they can afford! And just wait until kinds like my daughter are old enough to start driving. Her generation may not even be able to buy domestic cars...because the domestics aren't building cars. It's all SUVs and trucks. Having said that, my soon to be 13 year old daughter wants a truck, and is still ticked that I sold my 97 Chev K1500.

 

Locally, I'm thinking about the car shows I attended last summer. Lots of this stuff. And if you looks in the backgrounds of these pics, it's not all muscle and rods.

 

[Motor City]

9 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

These problems have been increasing in the SC community and a few folks have started companies that work on restoring the electronics that commonly fail on these cars. For us it's the capacitors in the ECUs and the dash gauge cluster, and the LCD screens in the HVAC controls and stereo head unit. 

Hi Brian,

What is SC community?  There is a guy about an hour from me who installs remanufactured CRTs for the late '80's Rivieras and Reattas.  I'm thinking of dropping the car off with him since the cluster is flaking out sometimes.  The CRT screen was made by Zenith, and looks like a miniature TV picture tube from the rear. 

I think I am one of the few guys on the forum who enjoys cars from all eras, from buggies to the latest Corvettes and Challengers.  I understand where younger people (I'm in my sixties) can't relate to cars that came out decades before they were born.  Dad and Grandpa used to talk about cars of their youth, and after seeing some in person, it made me better appreciate them.  I have never driven a car built before the 1960s, but would sure like to get a '48 Pontiac Streamliner fastback like Dad and Grandpa both had.  

[espo]

iamsuperdan,  I'm an old "Gray Beard" and I think you have a good understanding of the reason people look for something that was special to them in their early years . The new or newer cars I purchased as I got older were usually the higher performance version of what the manufacture produced at the time. You might want to keep an eye out for some of those types of cars on the used market. Example: '86 Monte Carlo SS - '90 Cavalier V6 and 5 speed, quicker than you might think. A '97 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with the Eaton super charged 3.8 liter - '10 Charger RT Max with AWD - '14 Avenger RT with an OHC 3.6 V6 that my wife still loves, and my current driver is a '18 Charger GT with AWD. The best was the '05 GTO 6 speed I bought new when I retired. Some of these are cars that can be had in many cases for under 10 grand for a nice one and just under 20 grand for some of the others. You are correct about the much older cars in that they had some great memories but not really safe drivers by todays standards. One of my hot button cars would be a '56 Bel Air Hardtop. The problem is by the time I bought and installed a completely new chassis and the LS-3 crate engine  and the Tremic 6 speed it would be easier and cheaper to just get a new Super Bee or the like.   

Edited March 16, 2020 by espo

[Carmak]

On 3/14/2020 at 12:53 AM, StevenGuthmiller said:

That's one.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't going to be a few Camaros or Corvettes, etc,  from that period restored, But I feel pretty safe in saying that it will never be to the scale of the cars from the '30s to the '70s.

You are now beginning to see a lot more 4 door hard tops and sedans, station wagons etc, from that period in history being rescued.

I doubt very much that you're going to see many of these restored.

 

 

 

 

Steve

When I was a wee young lad (in the 70's) full size 60's cars were what I was into. The adult car people said the 60's stuff was just used up junk and not a real car like a 32-33-36-40 Ford and that I should not waste my time. The same age group of people though very little of the 62 T-bird I got when I was 14 and even less of the 65 Pontiac 2+2 I got a few years later.

Now I am the adult with a collection of 50's and 60's cars (57 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, 65 Pontiac GP,  66 Chrysler, 69 Bonneville convertible). My mid 20's daughter's boyfriend has a 96 Ford SHO that he is fixing up. Why is he fixing up that used up junk? He is just wasting his time...........

[StevenGuthmiller]

47 minutes ago, Carmak said:

When I was a wee young lad (in the 70's) full size 60's cars were what I was into. The adult car people said the 60's stuff was just used up junk and not a real car like a 32-33-36-40 Ford and that I should not waste my time. The same age group of people though very little of the 62 T-bird I got when I was 14 and even less of the 65 Pontiac 2+2 I got a few years later.

Now I am the adult with a collection of 50's and 60's cars (57 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, 65 Pontiac GP,  66 Chrysler, 69 Bonneville convertible). My mid 20's daughter's boyfriend has a 96 Ford SHO that he is fixing up. Why is he fixing up that used up junk? He is just wasting his time...........

All that I can suggest Craig is to try this experiment.

In 20 years, Put the '57 Coupe Deville out on your boulevard along side the '96 Ford, put a price of $10,000.00 on each one and see which one sells faster.

 

 

Steve

[peteski]

2 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

All that I can suggest Craig is to try this experiment.

In 20 years, Put the '57 Coupe Deville out on your boulevard along side the '96 Ford, put a price of $10,000.00 on each one and see which one sells faster.

Steve

You might be surprised Steve . . . You just might be surprised (if you are still around).

But seriously, I see the SHO fetching $10k, but the Caddy will probably fetch $50k.  Just playing with you.

[StevenGuthmiller]

8 hours ago, peteski said:

You might be surprised Steve . . . You just might be surprised (if you are still around).

But seriously, I see the SHO fetching $10k, but the Caddy will probably fetch $50k.  Just playing with you.

Younger people might have an interest in the cars that they grew up with........ but they're not stupid! 

 

 

 

Steve

[NOBLNG]

I’m thinking that my 2013 MX-5 with the prht might be somewhat collectible one day. It will never be really valuable, but I’m keeping it anyways until I can’t drive or I can no longer get in and out of it!

[StevenGuthmiller]

9 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

I’m thinking that my 2013 MX-5 with the prht might be somewhat collectible one day. It will never be really valuable, but I’m keeping it anyways until I can’t drive or I can no longer get in and out of it!

I have a 2005 Honda S-2000.

Getting in and out of it is likely to be the biggest issue as time progresses!

 

 

 

Steve