3D Printing reality

[Oldmopars]

I know that thhere has been a lot of taalk on here lately about 3D printng and it being the future of our hobby. I completely agree, but wanted to throw a smal dose of reality int the discussion. 

I have a new Elegoo Saturn S. Ths is a large printer for a hobby type machine. There are bigger, but for a hobby printer, it is on the large end. That said I can print 2 full size car bodies at one time. Most are luck to get one body all the way into the print area, and many have to cut the body and print in 2 parts. 

I recently received a file from a member here. The file is not really the issue, 3D printing is. When you print anything you need to decide where you want the details, and where you don't. Anything facing the build plate will lack details, anything facing away will be sharp. 

So, I printed 2 bodies, 1 with the nose to the build plate, 1 with the tail to the build plate. As you can see from the pictures, one the nose is crisp, the other the tail is crisp. But neither are good on both ends. I did a prior print with the body flater tot he build plate, but as you can see, it just completely failed. Also notince that where it broke, I am getting severe warpage. These new bodies will need to sit out for about a week beforeI do anythingwitht hem to see if they warp beyond use. 

If you ever wonder why most 3D printers are offering engines and parts, not full bodies, this is why. It is extremely difficult to get the resin to create thin car bodies that print right and retain their shape after printing. 

Also, note the large pile of waste resin supports. This was required to print the bodies. More resin is used in the supports that the bodes that were printed. 

Now, when you get great quality parts from a good 3D printing vendor, you can see that it is not an easy task. 

[MeatMan]

I totally agree, that's why I bought a small printer because I really only need to print parts.

I've done a couple of small bodies and have had successes and failures. I just printed a Crosley minus the front end and 90% of it was good but with waves on the side, and one of the lower portions didn't print as well because of ineffective support on my part. The thickness on this bad boy is 3.9mm. I wish I knew Blender well enough to halve that.

Even with my small printer, I struggle to fill the build plate, so advanced planning is a must for me.

[peteski]

A possible workaround is to split up the body into multiple parts, and print each part in a way that will result in sharpest visible details.   Yes, we would have to return to the days of multi-piece bodies, but (since the design is done in CAD) at least the pieces would fit better than back in those days.

[bbowser]

Is it possible to "melt" the support resin and reuse it?  Seems like a lot of material goes to waste.

[iamsuperdan]

I agree. I've been less than satisfied with m y body prints, but wheels & tires and engine parts turn out perfectly. 

I've recently printed a body kit for a build, and it turned out mostly good. But the rear spoiler curled. It's practically a U now. THe details are great, but I guess when it dried and cured, it started to curl.

 

Anyone have thoughts on how to stop that?

[Ace-Garageguy]

38 minutes ago, bbowser said:

Is it possible to "melt" the support resin and reuse it?  Seems like a lot of material goes to waste.

If it's UV-cured goo, there's no bringing it back.

One potential use would be to offer it to model railroaders. It looks rather like old-time laced iron construction members, stair railings, etc.

It could make good demolition-site material, or convincing scrap or fabricated steel freight-car loads.

Other possible diorama uses too.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[my66s55]

I don't know guys. Most of your problems come from the lack of experience. People say Robert Burns body's are thick. I have stated and I will restate now. He has a reason and that is that a thicker body will be, the less inclined for failure. These print ready files you purchase on line are, for the most part, too thin. Hence the rips in one of Oldmopar's build. I have never had a failure when printing car bodies, or anything for that matter, on my Phrozen Shuffle 2018 that I converted to 4k two years ago. But then, the printer is  a step up from what you are using. As to thickness, I make my car bodies at 1.6 to 1.7 mm thickness. I checked the thickness on a couple of printable bodies and the max thickness was 1.4 mm. Also leave the bodies in the build plate for post curing. If you insist in using the too thin bodies, leave the supports on after post curing. The resin continues to cure afterwards. Thus, the warping. I totally avoid making anything real thin. It will eventually warp over time. When you encounter a body such as the one Oldsmopars is having trouble with remember that 3d printing is an additive process. Lowering the angle will increase the quality of the build. a 15 to 20 degree printed with the front down should do wonders. There should be no reason not to be able to print Oldmopars body correctly.

What's missing is experience. 

[Oldmopars]

5 hours ago, my66s55 said:

I don't know guys. Most of your problems come from the lack of experience. People say Robert Burns body's are thick. I have stated and I will restate now. He has a reason and that is that a thicker body will be, the less inclined for failure. These print ready files you purchase on line are, for the most part, too thin. Hence the rips in one of Oldmopar's build. I have never had a failure when printing car bodies, or anything for that matter, on my Phrozen Shuffle 2018 that I converted to 4k two years ago. But then, the printer is  a step up from what you are using. As to thickness, I make my car bodies at 1.6 to 1.7 mm thickness. I checked the thickness on a couple of printable bodies and the max thickness was 1.4 mm. Also leave the bodies in the build plate for post curing. If you insist in using the too thin bodies, leave the supports on after post curing. The resin continues to cure afterwards. Thus, the warping. I totally avoid making anything real thin. It will eventually warp over time. When you encounter a body such as the one Oldsmopars is having trouble with remember that 3d printing is an additive process. Lowering the angle will increase the quality of the build. a 15 to 20 degree printed with the front down should do wonders. There should be no reason not to be able to print Oldmopars body correctly.

What's missing is experience. 

The big issue I had is with print thickness, it was way too thin. However that is how I got it and while my skills in Fusion are good, my skill with Blender is none. I need to learn Blender so I can fix issues like this. 

I also printed it at a lower angle, 15 degrees,  however that is the body that failed. The 2 I did steeper were successful,  but the details were lost. 

In the future I will only print thicker bodies.  

Also, please don't insult my printer, I did a ton of research and it is the highest rated 4K printer in its size class. I looked at all brands, I am very happy with the one I have. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

10 hours ago, bbowser said:

Is it possible to "melt" the support resin and reuse it?  Seems like a lot of material goes to waste.

No the resin is cured and can't be uncured. Plastic is melted and waste can be reused. Two different processes.

[my66s55]

1 hour ago, Oldmopars said:

The big issue I had is with print thickness, it was way too thin. However that is how I got it and while my skills in Fusion are good, my skill with Blender is none. I need to learn Blender so I can fix issues like this. 

I also printed it at a lower angle, 15 degrees,  however that is the body that failed. The 2 I did steeper were successful,  but the details were lost. 

In the future I will only print thicker bodies.  

Also, please don't insult my printer, I did a ton of research and it is the highest rated 4K printer in its size class. I looked at all brands, I am very happy with the one I have. 

I didn't insult your printer. My Shuffle 2018 is a step up from the printers you considered. A company like Phrozen also makes a better quality line as well as the hobby printers. I've had my Shuffle XL since September 2018. It's electronics aren't cheap Chinese and the software isn't Chitubox garbage. A Raspberry Pi 3b ( you know-not made in Mainland China) powers a main mother board, a much better designed led array, the lcd and 3 fans. The software is NanoDLP which runs circles around Chitubox. The z axis is secured at the top and not hanging in mid air. The dual z axis has 2 slides and very high quality glides. There is a solid metal build plate with a solid metal fixture that holds it to the glides.. I started 3d printing in August 2013 when I built me first printer. It was a diy fdm machine. That's when I started learning to use Blender. I build my second 3d printer in the fall of 2014. It was a DLP resin printer. Back then there was a program called Creation Workshop that ran the machine. There was no auto support generator so I had to learn how to place supports. Since I've built my own printers, I know what it takes to make a good printer and how the printer actually works. As far as printing goes, I know what works and what doesn't. As a side note, the working basics of these resin printers your using weren't developed by some company. The open source community back in 2014 started experimenting with resin DLP printers and Kickstarters were used to fun small startups This is where Formlabs came from. Circa early 2016, the open source community started developing a resin printer using one powerful led for curing. That only allowed a small surface for curing so someone started using an led array. I know all this because I was there and was a member of a couple of diy forums. In November 2016, a couple of built printers came out of China. One was the Wanhoo Duplicator 7. It was roughly constructed and Wanhoo relied on the open source community to help them fix it. Circa 2017, a group of 3d printer enthusiasts from Taiwan formed and made a printer called the Make and started a kickstarter to fund it. It was a success so they improve it and made a printer called Shuffle. That company is Phrozen. They gained a reputation for building good, affordable printers that still exists today. Both the printers and the reputation. The Shuffle XL followed and that's when I bought mine. Check it out.

 

[yh70]

i know a lot of printers that do full body's...but u cant just go out and buy a printer and start printing.. just like being a baby you must crawl before you walk.. you will learn from your mistakes and they have plenty video's on YouTube u can watch that will help you.., dont give up..

[yh70]

2 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

No the resin is cured and can't be uncured. Plastic is melted and waste can be reused. Two different processes.

yes it can...with a  Filament recycle  The system grinds up and melts the plastic. Then extrudes it and coils it onto a spool.

[peteski]

1 hour ago, yh70 said:

yes it can...with a  Filament recycle  The system grinds up and melts the plastic. Then extrudes it and coils it onto a spool.

The resin being discussed here is used in DLP (SLA) printers, and  it is cured from liquid to solid with UV light (it is not a thermo-set resin that can be remelted like plastic used in filament printers).

[MeatMan]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:45 PM, my66s55 said:

I don't know guys. Most of your problems come from the lack of experience. People say Robert Burns body's are thick. I have stated and I will restate now. He has a reason and that is that a thicker body will be, the less inclined for failure. These print ready files you purchase on line are, for the most part, too thin. Hence the rips in one of Oldmopar's build. I have never had a failure when printing car bodies, or anything for that matter, on my Phrozen Shuffle 2018 that I converted to 4k two years ago. But then, the printer is  a step up from what you are using. As to thickness, I make my car bodies at 1.6 to 1.7 mm thickness. I checked the thickness on a couple of printable bodies and the max thickness was 1.4 mm. Also leave the bodies in the build plate for post curing. If you insist in using the too thin bodies, leave the supports on after post curing. The resin continues to cure afterwards. Thus, the warping. I totally avoid making anything real thin. It will eventually warp over time. When you encounter a body such as the one Oldsmopars is having trouble with remember that 3d printing is an additive process. Lowering the angle will increase the quality of the build. a 15 to 20 degree printed with the front down should do wonders. There should be no reason not to be able to print Oldmopars body correctly.

What's missing is experience. 

I agree Doug, including regarding myself.

Even with the little Crosley I printed I mad a big boo-boo. I realized that the print bed wasn't level from me repositioning the printer on the cabinet I keep it on.

I leveled it and viola, successful print. I also swapped the end to print the heavier rear first which may or may not have helped.
I'm a novice for sure and learn with almost every print. Where should the supports go? What angle to print at? What resin to use?

Its like airbrushing, kinda.

[Oldcarfan27]

Can you design the car in multiple parts? IE: body, front grille area and rear panel area and then glue them together?

The problem you're having is the same problem model makers have been having since day one.

That's why they position the separate parts where they can get the best detail.

But what do I know, I don't have a 3d printer.

[MeatMan]

13 hours ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

Can you design the car in multiple parts? IE: body, front grille area and rear panel area and then glue them together?

 

Most people don't do their own design. They buy the file from a designer that most of the time uses photos to recreate them, not actually designing the car from the ground up.

With that said, you can and I have successfully split a file in two and printed the parts separately, then glued them together.

[Dave Van]

That support or bracing scrap would make  a great scrap load for a O scale gondola on my layout!!!  

Anyone willing to send me some??? I'd pay shipping!!!! 

[1930fordpickup]

Don't give up Scott.  

[MrObsessive]

2 hours ago, MeatMan said:

Most people don't do their own design. They buy the file from a designer that most of the time uses photos to recreate them, not actually designing the car from the ground up.

With that said, you can and I have successfully split a file in two and printed the parts separately, then glued them together.

I've gotten a bit picky about where to get 3D files now, and for me-----it's better if I can get the original .obj file as I can separate the various body parts, and then convert them to a .stl file for printing. There is a way to separate parts on certain files when they're created as a solid mesh, but it's waaaaay more than I can get into here, and it's not for everyone to attempt.

Here's an example of a couple files I have that I was able to separate the body parts out.......it was made not as a solid mesh (although a seller on the 'Bay sells one as such) and this makes for a MUCH easier time to have bumpers and whatnot plated, and if I want opening doors and a tailgate, this makes it easier to do than having to cut them out after the fact.

1957 Pontiac Safari.......

1956 Pontiac Safari file I found for free on Sketchup, but spent a lot of time scaling things out to be usable.

[MrObsessive]

2 hours ago, MeatMan said:

Most people don't do their own design. They buy the file from a designer that most of the time uses photos to recreate them, not actually designing the car from the ground up.

With that said, you can and I have successfully split a file in two and printed the parts separately, then glued them together.

Oh! Almost forgot.......right at this moment I'm printing a body that I had to split in two and it's almost done. I won't say what it is right now or who it's for, as it's a test print that they want to see how it comes out with the scale adjusted. After it's done and I get the OK to show it, I'll post it here and also on FB. 👍🏽

[my66s55]

The other thing you need to watch for with purchased files is the accuracy. I covered this in my "My 3d printed projects" posts with a Hum3D 55 Dodge file that was major messed up. I downloaded the free 56 Pontiac Safari file and new something major was amiss. I'll turn it into a convertible at some later date. I put the file on top of a good side view because the front wheel well was off. I'll use this setup to correct it.

[MrObsessive]

5 hours ago, my66s55 said:

The other thing you need to watch for with purchased files is the accuracy. I covered this in my "My 3d printed projects" posts with a Hum3D 55 Dodge file that was major messed up. I downloaded the free 56 Pontiac Safari file and new something major was amiss. I'll turn it into a convertible at some later date. I put the file on top of a good side view because the front wheel well was off. I'll use this setup to correct it.

Yeeeup...........that's one of the things I'll have to correct if I get around to printing the '56 Safari I have above. The front wheel well is overly large and needs to be "shrunken" a bit. I'll admit one of the frustrating things about 3D printing is finding good orthographic pics or blueprints for reference.

For the life of me I CANNOT find a GOOD orthographic top view of either the 1958 Packard Hawk, or the 1967 Opel Kadett B coupe. Both of which I'd like to create bodies for and possibly print in hopefully the not too distant future.

[stitchdup]

59 minutes ago, MrObsessive said:

Yeeeup...........that's one of the things I'll have to correct if I get around to printing the '56 Safari I have above. The front wheel well is overly large and needs to be "shrunken" a bit. I'll admit one of the frustrating things about 3D printing is finding good orthographic pics or blueprints for reference.

For the life of me I CANNOT find a GOOD orthographic top view of either the 1958 Packard Hawk, or the 1967 Opel Kadett B coupe. Both of which I'd like to create bodies for and possibly print in hopefully the not too distant future.

here's some opels      https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/cars/opel/page/3/

Edited June 2, 2022 by stitchdup

[MrObsessive]

20 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

here's some opels      https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/cars/opel/page/3/

Yup! I'm reeeaaal familiar with that site........it's this one I need the direct top view for and they don't have that one. I got the front, rear, and side view from another site, but no top.

I can run those views through Fusion and make a printable body.........I'm doing that now with this '53 Cunningham C4R.

[MeatMan]

Good info! So I'll be leaving all of that body stuff to you guys and stick with parts. I think my brain just broke! 😄