Rust-oleum Issues?

[Anglia105E]

  On 6/17/2023 at 10:49 AM, stitchdup said:

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/paint_color_reference_ford_england

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That is a fascinating website Les, and I see it is from Australia . . . While researching Rolls-Royce motor cars I found several good sources of information from sites in Australia . . . The chart for 1964 Ford England PPG is particularly helpful, which is Imported Car Colors 1963 - 1965.

I shall study this one closely !

Many thanks,

David

[stitchdup]

  On 6/17/2023 at 11:06 AM, Anglia105E said:

That is a fascinating website Les, and I see it is from Australia . . . While researching Rolls-Royce motor cars I found several good sources of information from sites in Australia . . . The chart for 1964 Ford England PPG is particularly helpful, which is Imported Car Colors 1963 - 1965.

I shall study this one closely !

Many thanks,

David

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It could be worth looking on some of the old uk ford forums too. Theres a lot of information on them and the owners are usually happy to share pics and info. I find the old ford owners tend be a more helpful lot than others in the uk but that probably more down to wider wage range than other car groups tend to have. If you pull up next an old jag there a 90% chance the owner is wealthy but if a mk1 escort pulls up next you the owner could be a millionaire or work in a supermarket.

[Anglia105E]

  On 6/17/2023 at 11:27 AM, stitchdup said:

It could be worth looking on some of the old uk ford forums too. Theres a lot of information on them and the owners are usually happy to share pics and info. I find the old ford owners tend be a more helpful lot than others in the uk but that probably more down to wider wage range than other car groups tend to have. If you pull up next an old jag there a 90% chance the owner is wealthy but if a mk1 escort pulls up next you the owner could be a millionaire or work in a supermarket.

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So true Les  !  Absolutely . . .

[Joe Lange]

  On 6/16/2023 at 8:03 PM, Anglia105E said:

Thanks a lot Joe . . . Certainly, the more modern paints are not the same as the older versions. Someone suggested that the Rust-oleum Spa Blue Gloss might even have a primer already as part of it's formula, and consequently if the Spa Blue Gloss was then applied over the Plastic Primer White, this ' might ' cause an unusual reaction ?  (That's not what it says on the tin  ! )

I thought about the Tamiya TS-10 French Blue and the TS-23 Light Blue, but cannot find a supplier for those paints. Also not sure about acrylics.

Some WIP pics will be posted soon  !

David

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I have a real problem with these 'Hi-Tech', "PRIMER & PAINT in ONE!" paints.  To me, it's a modern term for;.... Yea, I'm lazy!   I definitely would not spray a 'paint & primer' paint over a piece you have just primed already.  That being said, I see Rust-oleum has 2 Spa Blue gloss sprays.  One is their '2x' paint & primer, the other is their 'Painter's Touch', which has no mention of primer in the paint.  I would feel safer with the 2nd and use a thin coat of light gray rust-oleum primer, with lots of cure time, for both.  I would test it under the hood, oops...sorry, bonnet first.   

[Anglia105E]

  On 6/17/2023 at 6:45 PM, Joe Lange said:

I have a real problem with these 'Hi-Tech', "PRIMER & PAINT in ONE!" paints.  To me, it's a modern term for;.... Yea, I'm lazy!   I definitely would not spray a 'paint & primer' paint over a piece you have just primed already.  That being said, I see Rust-oleum has 2 Spa Blue gloss sprays.  One is their '2x' paint & primer, the other is their 'Painter's Touch', which has no mention of primer in the paint.  I would feel safer with the 2nd and use a thin coat of light gray rust-oleum primer, with lots of cure time, for both.  I would test it under the hood, oops...sorry, bonnet first.   

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Oh I see . . . That's okay then Joe, because my can says ' Painter's Touch ', so no primer in there presumably.

The Spa Blue Gloss over the Plastic Primer White seems to be stable after 4 days since application, and it hasn't eaten the 60 year old plastic  !

The surface for this test is the underside of the engine bay, which will have a further week of curing to be safe.

David

[Dave G.]

I mentioned way back in the thread ( I think it was this thread on Rustoleum) that I decant 2X and Painters Touch, thin a little extra with lacquer thinner and spray it via airbrush over Stynylrez primer. The results are equal to that of having sprayed the Old Model Master Enamels or the square bottle Testors thinned with Lacquer thinner which is kind of the old time standard. But it's all airbrush work. There isn't a thing wrong with PT or 2X if done right. It comes out great.

Non the less, I see that Amazon UK sells airbrush sets. Just sayin.  I know that seems daunting to some folks but some of us have been painting spray cans or airbrush for 60 years and you find ways to solve problems is best I can say.

That said, I've spent now about 8-10 years to get acrylics to performs as I want them to. So I don't use many solvent paints these days. I wish you the best in your endeavors however you go ! Just keep at it.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Dave G.

[Anglia105E]

  On 6/17/2023 at 8:41 PM, Dave G. said:

I mentioned way back in the thread ( I think it was this thread on Rustoleum) that I decant 2X and Painters Touch, thin a little extra with lacquer thinner and spray it via airbrush over Stynylrez primer. The results are equal to that of having sprayed the Old Model Master Enamels or the square bottle Testors thinned with Lacquer thinner which is kind of the old time standard. But it's all airbrush work. There isn't a thing wrong with PT or 2X if done right. It comes out great.

Non the less, I see that Amazon UK sells airbrush sets. Just sayin.  I know that seems daunting to some folks but some of us have been painting spray cans or airbrush for 60 years and you find ways to solve problems is best I can say.

That said, I've spent now about 8-10 years to get acrylics to performs as I want them to. So I don't use many solvent paints these days. I wish you the best in your endeavors however you go ! Just keep at it.

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Many thanks for your input and words of encouragement David . . . Next week I shall be testing Tamiya lacquer paints from spray can, which will be my first experience with these products. It will be interesting to see how the Tamiya compares with the Rust-oleum.

David

[Anglia105E]

Just ordered these two products from Ebay . . . Tamiya TS-10 French Blue and Fine Surface Primer White.

Testing of the Tamiya paint products is scheduled for next week . . . Watch this space  !

David

[Dave G.]

  On 6/17/2023 at 9:25 PM, Anglia105E said:

Just ordered these two products from Ebay . . . Tamiya TS-10 French Blue and Fine Surface Primer White.

Testing of the Tamiya paint products is scheduled for next week . . . Watch this space  !

David

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You'll like it, looks like a decent match as well. If it's warm and humid wait for a cooler and or dryer day for the color.

[Anglia105E]

  On 6/17/2023 at 9:56 PM, Dave G. said:

You'll like it, looks like a decent match as well. If it's warm and humid wait for a cooler and or dryer day for the color.

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Cheers and thanks David,

David

[bobthehobbyguy]

  On 6/17/2023 at 9:25 PM, Anglia105E said:

Just ordered these two products from Ebay . . . Tamiya TS-10 French Blue and Fine Surface Primer White.

Testing of the Tamiya paint products is scheduled for next week . . . Watch this space  !

David

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Smart move. Don't think you will regret it.

[Bugatti Fan]

Hi David

Quite a few other responses since my last one.

Forgot to mention that most automotive aerosols these days are acrylic so should be alright for plastic.

Telford is well worth a visit if you can get to it. It is now the biggest scale model show in the world.

[Anglia105E]

  On 6/18/2023 at 7:18 AM, Bugatti Fan said:

Hi David

Quite a few other responses since my last one.

Forgot to mention that most automotive aerosols these days are acrylic so should be alright for plastic.

Telford is well worth a visit if you can get to it. It is now the biggest scale model show in the world.

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I did pass through Telford on my way to Cornwall, which is a trip that I make once a year, every year. This year during May it was a train journey rather than a car journey, so I didn't see Telford . . . As detailed above, I shall do some Tamiya lacquer paints testing next week and once I have compared the results to the Rust-oleum testing, maybe I can have a look at acrylics.

Your contribution is much appreciated Noel, and I think taking my time to get this paint application right for this particular model car is most important.

Shortly, there will be a WIP topic to show the build process so far.

David

[89AKurt]

Been seeing a flood of posts on Fakebook showing disasters using this paint.  Searched here and could tell the majority of comments are in the negative.  If you have success, consider yourself lucky.  Years ago I used Krylon clear and wrecked a model, never used spray paint again.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 6/18/2023 at 7:18 AM, Bugatti Fan said:

Forgot to mention that most automotive aerosols these days are acrylic so should be alright for plastic.

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"Acrylic" what, exactly?

There's water-based acrylic, acrylic lacquer, acrylic enamel, and acrylic urethane...all with different chemical properties and not all are  friendly to polystyrene.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY and ACCURACY

[peteski]

Yes, it is really too bad that hobbyists started using this generic "acrylic" term as an indicator of a paint using mild (often water) solvent.

[Dave G.]

  On 7/5/2023 at 4:32 AM, peteski said:

Yes, it is really too bad that hobbyists started using this generic "acrylic" term as an indicator of a paint using mild (often water) solvent.

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I agree, plus: Really it was the paint producers and suppliers selling acrylic paints to hobbyists leading that for the most part were water borne, the modelers just picked up the conception acrylic must be mild like latex house paint lol..And nobody from the industry filled in between the lines. Meanwhile, as some of us who shot 1/1 for any amount of time knew acrylic to be generally a pretty hot product, especially acrylic lacquer and long before model paints took the plunge into mild waterborne acrylics.. Acrylic lacquers were quite hot. To which incidentally, MCW supplies hot acrylic lacquer. Their lacquer isn't just lacquer but acrylic lacquer. So it's not just the idea the term acrylic came to be known as mild in the model industry but meanwhile acrylics had already been in hot solvent paints a long time. In fact as waterborne acrylics for models came out, so too was a stab at it for base color coating in 1/1. The term base coat clear coat came out of that. Before then, (what late 1970's ish,) clear coating wasn't a standard at all in refinishing cars or trucks. Clear was around but it wasn't on production cars nor really in refinishing till base coating took hold.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Dave G.

[stitchdup]

I knew someone that thought water based meant safe to drink. He wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He saw a magic act on one of the saturday talent shows where the magician was run over by a truck wheels (lots of counter weights behind the truck so no real weight on the magician) and decided he would try the same. Luckily he started by running over his foot so only broke his foot. He also burned down his dads workshop by using petrol instead of diesel in some machine. I dont know where he is these days but i can only assume he spends much of his life wrapped in bubble wrap.

[Straightliner59]

  On 7/5/2023 at 9:49 AM, Dave G. said:

Acrylic lacquers were quite hot.

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Boy, that's the truth! Hell, most of 'em smelled like they'd destroy the plastic!

[ctruss53]

  On 6/18/2023 at 7:18 AM, Bugatti Fan said:

Hi David

Quite a few other responses since my last one.

Forgot to mention that most automotive aerosols these days are acrylic so should be alright for plastic.

Telford is well worth a visit if you can get to it. It is now the biggest scale model show in the world.

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"acrylic"

No, automotive paints are not usually acrylic. They are almost always a lacquer of some sort. And because of this I don't like using the term acrylic unless a paint is truly water-based.

Edited July 5, 2023 by ctruss53

[Anglia105E]

  On 7/5/2023 at 3:57 PM, ctruss53 said:

"acrylic"

No, automotive paints are not usually acrylic. They are almost always a lacquer of some sort. And because of this I don't like using the term acrylic unless a paint is truly water-based.

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Thanks Chad . . . So, at the risk of sounding stupid . . . Would the Tamiya paint products such as Tamiya TS-10 French Blue be ' Lacquer ', or alternatively would they be ' Acrylic Laquer ' ? ( and does it matter? ). Having applied the Tamiya paints to my 60 year old Frog model car kit styrene, I haven't noticed any unpleasant or alarming chemical reactions going on . . . What a relief  !

David

[ctruss53]

  On 7/5/2023 at 4:41 PM, Anglia105E said:

Thanks Chad . . . So, at the risk of sounding stupid . . . Would the Tamiya paint products such as Tamiya TS-10 French Blue be ' Lacquer ', or alternatively would they be ' Acrylic Laquer ' ? ( and does it matter? ). Having applied the Tamiya paints to my 60 year old Frog model car kit styrene, I haven't noticed any unpleasant or alarming chemical reactions going on . . . What a relief  !

David

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There are no stupid questions.

Tamiya TS spray paints and primers are lacquers.  They might throw around the term acrylic, but they are lacquers.

Having said that Tamiya primers and TS series spray paints are designed specifically for use on plastic model kits. They will work with your classic model kit, I have no doubts. Tamiya products are the most stable, easiest to use products. I have never had any issues with their products.

This post is not sponsored by Tamiya. I only know that they are the most versatile products. They just work. Always.

Edited July 5, 2023 by ctruss53

[Anglia105E]

  On 7/5/2023 at 4:47 PM, ctruss53 said:

There are no stupid questions.

Tamiya TS spray paints and primers are lacquers.  They might throw around the term acrylic, but they are lacquers.

Having said that Tamiya primers and TS series spray paints are designed specifically for use on plastic model kits. They will work with your classic model kit, I have no doubts. Tamiya products are the most stable, easiest to use products. I have never had any issues with their products.

This post is not sponsored by Tamiya. I only know that they are the most versatile products. They just work. Always.

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Okay Chad . . . and I agree completely with you. Why during the past 7 years of building and painting scale model cars I haven't once looked at trying Tamiya paint products, I do not know . . . I am already aware how good the Tamiya kits are, having built the Morgan and the Jaguar MK 2, so I really should have tried out Tamiya paints long before now. Anyway, I do like them and within a day or so I shall be using Tamiya Polishing Compound on the Cortina.

I shall have to go gently with the Coarse grade of the compounds, because I don't want to go down to primer on this car. I have only applied two coats of the French Blue, and quite thin coats at that. I did use Coarse, then Fine, and then Finish on my Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud, but I did see the underlying primer coat appear during the application of the Coarse grade, which forced me to start the paint procedure from scratch. That was two applications of each grade of compound.

David

[ctruss53]

  On 7/5/2023 at 5:05 PM, Anglia105E said:

Okay Chad . . . and I agree completely with you. Why during the past 7 years of building and painting scale model cars I haven't once looked at trying Tamiya paint products, I do not know . . . I am already aware how good the Tamiya kits are, having built the Morgan and the Jaguar MK 2, so I really should have tried out Tamiya paints long before now. Anyway, I do like them and within a day or so I shall be using Tamiya Polishing Compound on the Cortina.

I shall have to go gently with the Coarse grade of the compounds, because I don't want to go down to primer on this car. I have only applied two coats of the French Blue, and quite thin coats at that. I did use Coarse, then Fine, and then Finish on my Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud, but I did see the underlying primer coat appear during the application of the Coarse grade, which forced me to start the paint procedure from scratch. That was two applications of each grade of compound.

David

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Yeah, Tamiya products just work. Their only problem is they have a somewhat limited selection of colors compared to other brands.

I'm not sure what your second paragraph is asking, but I will answer what I think you are asking.

Compounds meaning how you polish out the paint?

With Tamiya paints I always apply a clearcoat. I prefer the Mr Super Clear Gloss UV Cut from Mr Hobby, but Tamiya makes a good TS series gloss clear as well.

Apply your primer in light coats. 2-3 coats. 3-4 minutes between coats. Just enough to get even coverage.

Then a few hours later you can apply your Tamiya color coats. Again, apply the paint light. Keep the spray can moving and apply the paint light. 2-4 coats of paint should do it. Wait 5-7 minutes between coats. Apply as little paint as possible until you get even color.  Then let the paint cure for at least a day. I like to wait 2 or 3 days, but you can apply clear as soon as a day later.

Then with clear, build it up light like the paint. Apply 2-3 very light coats. 5-7 minutes between these light coats of clear. Just build it up and coat as evenly as possible. But then once you have the clear foundation built up a bit, then apply 1-2 wet coats. Not so wet the paint runs, but slow down a little and apply the paint a little heavier so it is visibly wet and smooth. And wait 10-12 minutes between these wet coats.

Then once you have applied the clear, let your model sit for a week before you polish it out. The longer you let it sit, the harder the finish will be.

Then to polish it out start with 3000 grit and wet sand it. Use lots of water and do not use force. Sand very lightly and let the paper do the work.

Then use 8000 grit. Again, use lots of water, and very little pressure. Let the paper do the work.

Then use a rubbing compound or a scratch remover. This might also translate to a medium model polishing compound. Maybe the coarse stuff. I'm not sure. This might be worth testing on a spare part.

Then use a polishing compound. This might translate to medium or fine modeling compound. Again, I am not sure. But this is the last step before wax, so maybe this would be the fine compound.

And again at all steps, don't apply much pressure. Let the paper or compound do the work.

 

NOTE: This is how I do it. Other people will have different techniques. But this process works consistently for me.

[Anglia105E]

  On 7/5/2023 at 5:31 PM, ctruss53 said:

Yeah, Tamiya products just work. Their only problem is they have a somewhat limited selection of colors compared to other brands.

I'm not sure what your second paragraph is asking, but I will answer what I think you are asking.

Compounds meaning how you polish out the paint?

With Tamiya paints I always apply a clearcoat. I prefer the Mr Super Clear Gloss UV Cut from Mr Hobby, but Tamiya makes a good TS series gloss clear as well.

Apply your primer in light coats. 2-3 coats. 3-4 minutes between coats. Just enough to get even coverage.

Then a few hours later you can apply your Tamiya color coats. Again, apply the paint light. Keep the spray can moving and apply the paint light. 2-4 coats of paint should do it. Wait 5-7 minutes between coats. Apply as little paint as possible until you get even color.  Then let the paint cure for at least a day. I like to wait 2 or 3 days, but you can apply clear as soon as a day later.

Then with clear, build it up light like the paint. Apply 2-3 very light coats. 5-7 minutes between these light coats of clear. Just build it up and coat as evenly as possible. But then once you have the clear foundation built up a bit, then apply 1-2 wet coats. Not so wet the paint runs, but slow down a little and apply the paint a little heavier so it is visibly wet and smooth. And wait 10-12 minutes between these wet coats.

Then once you have applied the clear, let your model sit for a week before you polish it out. The longer you let it sit, the harder the finish will be.

Then to polish it out start with 3000 grit and wet sand it. Use lots of water and do not use force. Sand very lightly and let the paper do the work.

Then use 8000 grit. Again, use lots of water, and very little pressure. Let the paper do the work.

Then use a rubbing compound or a scratch remover. This might also translate to a medium model polishing compound. Maybe the coarse stuff. I'm not sure. This might be worth testing on a spare part.

Then use a polishing compound. This might translate to medium or fine modeling compound. Again, I am not sure. But this is the last step before wax, so maybe this would be the fine compound.

And again at all steps, don't apply much pressure. Let the paper or compound do the work.

 

NOTE: This is how I do it. Other people will have different techniques. But this process works consistently for me.

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Your clear and concise information is much appreciated . . . Plenty for me to think about and I feel more confident about the procedure.

David