2022 Round2 Releases

[Luc Janssens]

12 minutes ago, wrenchr said:

Maybe Revell has larger production runs to help spread the price increase? 

Revell is a global player, with a good distribution network in house and out. Round-2 lesser so, which can account for the higher price, but in time I think every automotive kit from whatever brand, domestic or foreign will be hovering around fifty bucks, this ain't no hobby for kids anymore.

 

[Vince Nemanic]

I vaguely remember reading that the Revell models are molded in Poland since the German takeover. Would shipping from Europe be less expensive than from China?

[Dave Van]

Revell runs molding machines in a number of places. China is one of them. Poland and Ukraine too. 

[charlie8575]

11 hours ago, Mr. Metallic said:

 

It's not just a story, it's a fact. I work for a company with some parts production in China. Once your tooling is there, it's there FOREVER. 

Hence my companies investment in insourcing plastic molding over the last 5-7 years, and a shift to more domestic sourcing of other parts

Yes Luc, countries can bring production back to their own countries, but would have to recreate all existing tooling if it is within China's borders

Is it the cost of re-patriating the tooling, or some other issue because you're dealing with a weird Marxist-Corporate Fascist blend government?

If the latter, just another example of Red China's thumbing its nose at the world's IP laws. If the former, a serious issue to deal with.

Having looked seriously at starting my own manufacturing, I've started to discover that in terms of actual cost per unit, there's really very little difference between American and Chinese production, and that when I first started looking into it years ago. With these new container costs, this becomes a no-brainer.

Being very serious here....I'd be willing to start manufacturing if anyone wanted to invest for stock in an S-Corp. I have ideas for about 4-6 cars I could produce and probably have decent success with, and a designer willing to work with me if I can come up with the scratch. And yes, all production will be done in the U.S., as I have a couple of moulders willing to work with me.

Charlie Larkin

[Oldcarfan27]

I just don't see the legalities of one country assuming assets of its contractors, that's like taking your car to a mechanic for repairs and he then owns it.

Why would businesses willingly hand over their vested property to a known thief? Is the savings really worth that loss? What insurance company would cover them for that kind of risk?

I'm not a business major, but I won't simply hand over my hard earned property to any business or country, no matter the discount. Once my assets are gone then I have to start over again. That doesn't make sense.

[Luc Janssens]

10 hours ago, Vince Nemanic said:

I vaguely remember reading that the Revell models are molded in Poland since the German takeover. Would shipping from Europe be less expensive than from China?

Revell Germany has it's tooling made in China but produces in Poland.

So it will be interesting to see on how they will proceed with the '71 Mustang, as ( correct me if I'm wrong) this will be the first all new tool under the new management of which the product is primarly for the NA market.

[Mr. Metallic]

11 hours ago, charlie8575 said:

Is it the cost of re-patriating the tooling, or some other issue because you're dealing with a weird Marxist-Corporate Fascist blend government?

If the latter, just another example of Red China's thumbing its nose at the world's IP laws. If the former, a serious issue to deal with.

There is no re-patriation possible. They take the tooling hostage. If you want to keep producing your product you must either produce it there (China) with that tooling, or create your tooling from scratch again. With the added caveat that if you decide to recreate that tooling you jeopardize future production of other things they have the tooling for as well.

9 hours ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

I just don't see the legalities of one country assuming assets of its contractors, that's like taking your car to a mechanic for repairs and he then owns it.

Why would businesses willingly hand over their vested property to a known thief? Is the savings really worth that loss? What insurance company would cover them for that kind of risk?

I'm not a business major, but I won't simply hand over my hard earned property to any business or country, no matter the discount. Once my assets are gone then I have to start over again. That doesn't make sense.

When you're dealing with the government of the country with one of the largest economies in the world that has been put in the position to have a vast majority of the entire worlds production in their tentacles, then they set the rules, legalities be damned. Companies are learning their lesson the hard way that even though once China gleamed as a beacon of cheap labor and cost, the Chinese got tired of being exploited and decided to fight back. They essentially hold everyone hostage with their blatant disregard for copyright, intellectual property and basic law of other countries. No matter how generally accepted those laws are by the rest of the world.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Mr. Metallic

[keyser]

Franklin and Danbury mints are example. 
Done. Poof. 
Then there’s the graft. A lot, at many levels. 
But people here won’t seemingly work, doing “side gigs”. 
India ain’t much better, great molding out of Poland and Ukraine, but Ukraine has a “looming” issue. Pesky neighbors. 
Sad for their workers. 

[Motor City]

6 hours ago, keyser said:

Franklin and Danbury mints are example. 
Done. Poof. 
Then there’s the graft. A lot, at many levels. 
But people here won’t seemingly work, doing “side gigs”. 
India ain’t much better, great molding out of Poland and Ukraine, but Ukraine has a “looming” issue. Pesky neighbors. 
Sad for their workers. 

What actually did happen to Franklin and Danbury?  One was obsessed with Princess Di and others in the British royal family, as I recall.  

It boils down to corporate greed in many industries.  All they care about is using cheaper labor.  The microchip and pandemic medical supply shortages are prime examples of this attitude.  

[Brian Austin]

I seem to recall several diecast manufacturers (along with the model railroad segment) suffered some factory closures in the first half of the 2010s.  They were caught off guard.  Some managed to hold on to their tooling, while others were not so lucky.  Also the cost of zinc had been on the rise as well.  I recall forums discussing some manufacturers moving away from diecast to other materials for models.

 

Parts of an article by New York Times from 2014:

The decision by the Danbury Mint last month to stop selling die-cast model cars was symptomatic of a more serious shrinkage in a market where the vehicles are already pretty small.

The Connecticut company, which still produces jewelry and collectible plaques and figurines, left the market when its last die-cast car factory in China closed down; another of its Chinese factories closed two years earlier.

(...)

Mr. Fothergill, who said that he has been selling collectible die-cast cars to individuals and stores for 24 years, pointed out that much of the rollback happened during the years of economic downturn.

“A lot of the manufacturers did not adjust their production runs,” he said. “They would still make 5,000 pieces. Now, you have production runs as low as 500 pieces. Nobody wants excess stock nowadays.”

Most die-cast models are made in China, Mr. Fothergill said, where one factory can produce cars for a number of brands, adjusting the levels of quality and detail to meet the seller’s desired price points. But when one of these factories runs into financial difficulties and cannot pay its workers, he said, the Chinese government will step in and shut it down.

“We’ve seen one factory in the last six months that was a mainstay for 20 years, and they ran into some problems and now they’re gone,” Mr. Fothergill said. Part of this can be traced to the upward pressure on wages in Chinese factories.

The added labor costs, as well as a jump in the cost of materials, have raised prices on larger die-cast collectibles by 30 to 35 percent in the last two years, he said. Zinc, the metal used for the bodies, has risen in price significantly over the last five years. The Danbury Mint cited an increase in prices, to $250 from $150, in its announcement, according to a collector-car website, Hemmings Daily.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/automobiles/collectibles/a-scaleback-in-die-cast-cars.html

[slusher]

If China keeps a company’s tooling what do they do with it?

[keyser]

53 minutes ago, slusher said:

If China keeps a company’s tooling what do they do with it?

Learn and use similar or improved methods. 
Yat Ming for example. Fire trucks and POTUS limos. Very, very good. 

[Dave Van]

If you really want to know how China works.....check the book 'China: the 100 year marathon'. It explains how things work in China and the why. I am not anti China as in the people, many are great people and very talented. When I was working on a kit with a Chinese tooling company we had to communicate via drawings as we did not have a common language. It worked out well. 

The government is a different thing. 

[charlie8575]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:53 AM, Mr. Metallic said:

There is no re-patriation possible. They take the tooling hostage. If you want to keep producing your product you must either produce it there (China) with that tooling, or create your tooling from scratch again. With the added caveat that if you decide to recreate that tooling you jeopardize future production of other things they have the tooling for as well.

When you're dealing with the government of the country with one of the largest economies in the world that has been put in the position to have a vast majority of the entire worlds production in their tentacles, then they set the rules, legalities be damned. Companies are learning their lesson the hard way that even though once China gleamed as a beacon of cheap labor and cost, the Chinese got tired of being exploited and decided to fight back. They essentially hold everyone hostage with their blatant disregard for copyright, intellectual property and basic law of other countries. No matter how generally accepted those laws are by the rest of the world.

Proof yet again that there is usually very little value in a bargain.

Or, in this case, very many values, save for the pecuniary, also proving the ancient injunction of money being the root of evil, and the fuel for it.

Charlie Larkin

[Brian Austin]

1 hour ago, charlie8575 said:

Proof yet again that there is usually very little value in a bargain.

Or, in this case, very many values, save for the pecuniary, also proving the ancient injunction of money being the root of evil, and the fuel for it.

Charlie Larkin

It is the LOVE of money that is said to be the root of evil.  :-)

[Snake45]

5 minutes ago, Brian Austin said:

It is the LOVE of money that is said to be the root of evil.  :-)

No, it is the LACK of money that is the root of all evil. 

[Smoke Wagon]

I see we’re doing great at staying on topic as usual. 

[Dave Darby]

13 hours ago, Brian Austin said:

It is the LOVE of money that is said to be the root of evil.  ?

Not so much the love of money as the love of power and control.

[keyser]

And the corollary “thou shalt give 40% discounts lest ye be done unto” 
Don’t forget the thread police are otw 

[Rob Hall]

Reality is complex.

[slusher]

14 hours ago, Brian Austin said:

It is the LOVE of money that is said to be the root of evil.  ?

That’s  it ..

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, Dave Darby said:

Not so much the love of money as the love of power and control.

There it is. Rich people don't bother me at all as long as they're not trying to tell ME how to live MY life. 

[Can-Con]

1 hour ago, keyser said:

And the corollary “thou shalt give 40% discounts lest ye be done unto” 
Don’t forget the thread police are otw 

That's funny !!

Anyone else instantly recognize the coffee cup? LOL?

[Brian Austin]

2 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

Not so much the love of money as the love of power and control.

My point was that quote is often misquoted, and I was just gently correcting it. That's all.  I wasn't expecting this to become a major point of discussion.  :-)

[GMP440]

To get back on topic.  How cost effective is for Round 2 take a kit, from their archives in which the tooling is not there and use 3D printing to do new tooling?  Subjects such as the 68 or 69 Bonneville, 71 Dodge Demon, 68 or 69 C-10 truck where the tooling is no longer there could be done this way.