WHY COMBUSTION ENGINES ARE FAR FROM DEAD...

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

[Richard Bartrop]

The energy density argument is why the people pushing for electric aircraft are delusional.

[Classicgas]

These putzes pushing electric as being green are so clueless. It takes the burning of fossil fuels to make your stupid batteries and to generate the electricity to charge them. Nuclear and solar power is simply not enough.

[Painted Black]

I'll go back to horse and buggy before I'd buy EV!!

[Dave Van]

One of the worlds largest auto maker is on the verge of a hydrogen breakthrough. They will make electric cars to fill the 'want' for them....but will stop when the hydrogen vehicles are ready. They will make everything from small commuter cars to 18 wheelers. 

Electric is  dead if this is perfected.  

[paul alflen]

That must be Toyota then. A person I know has a 2-year lease on a hydrogen-powerd car in California that he drives. (ca emissions only) . 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, paul alflen said:

That must be Toyota then. 

Yes, Toyota has made significant progress into solving the problems with hydrogen-fueled IC engines.

They have expressed their idea that it's just stupid to abandon the IC engine, with 100+ years of cumulative knowledge concerning the powerplants.

Another part of the motivation is protecting jobs of a significant sector of Japan's domestic workforce.

Honda has also done much work on gaseous-fueled IC engines, with their natural-gas-powered IC vehicles in California being among the "cleanest" on the planet.

And a European manufacturer has developed a hydrogen-burning truck/bus diesel engine that achieves power, torque, and fuel economy competitive with oil-burners.

Again, this is not to say that electrics have no place in a rational surface propulsion mix. Electrics are a good solution for lots of vehicle users. But banking 100% on electrics is moronic.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[paul alflen]

If we go to 100 % electric vehicles, then any Enemy/terrorist  of the USA , can bomb the power plants. Where does that leave us?  With cars we can't drive? Easy targets for a take over? Will we still will need Gasoline for all the generators  to run when the power grid goes out? Your electric bill WILL go  sky-high negating the savings on gasoline, if we go all electric!

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 minute ago, paul alflen said:

If we go to 100 % electric vehicles, then any Enemy/terrorist  of the USA , can bomb the power plants. Where does that leave us?

Excellent point, especially in light of the fact that the huge transformers used in the power distribution grid are not widely stockpiled, in many cases take a 6-month or more lead time from order to delivery, and are in large part MADE IN CHINA.

[paul alflen]

Yes Ace-Garageguy , NO power=NO manufacturing jobs, No freedom to drive anywhere you want, No food ,ETC. I'm not against EV's, but let's put our resources into the best solution(Ben Franklin Style) possible for all the planet and all future people . Hydrogen fueled seems to be the best. Natural gas next, then electrics? Also can electric vehicles pull  camping trailers and have an extended range in the cold states? MI, Minn, Wisconsin, N and S Dakota come into Mind.

[espo]

Just like belly buttons everyone has an opinion on EV's. I like the way this person put forward the information and the logic he put forward seems to make sense to me. I admit to being in the IC camp on this subject.  I have seen a value in some cases for the battery operated items such as my yard weed eater and I would consider a lawn mower as well if I hadn't moved to a maintains provided home. I liked how he explained why companies are still investing in the IC engines going forward.     

[The Junkman]

While the idea of EV's is great, I just can't get past the real world experiences I would expect.  If I drive to San Francisco-110 miles each way-I'd expect that would use up a great portion of available range.  Do I have to plan an extended recharge session on the way back home?  Cooling my heels for an hour or 2 would have to be figured into a regular 4 hour trip.  AND among other pleasures of living in California we have an idiotic and non-responsive utility company, one that siphoned off maintenance funds for executive pay and shareholder dividends.  2 years ago we had no power for 5 days because they couldn't guarantee that strong winds wouldn't cause their lines to fall down and start fires so they shut large sections of their service area down.  How does one recharge a car at home even at 220 volts when you don't have power for extended periods of time?  Great idea/iffy execution

Edited November 19, 2021 by The Junkman

[sfhess]

4 hours ago, paul alflen said:

That must be Toyota then. A person I know has a 2-year lease on a hydrogen-powerd car in California that he drives. (ca emissions only) . 

Keep in mind that the Mirai is a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, so it has electric propulsion, not a fuel-burning engine.

 

[NOBLNG]

EV’s can never totally replace IC’s. Certainly the Armed Forces, Law Enforcement and Emergency Response cannot be restricted to them. Never mind the Zombie Apocalypse Escape vehicles.? One thing that should be incorporated into all EV’s is solar panels on the roof (and maybe hood and trunk?). That way it will charge itself if left parked long enough.

[Bainford]

10 hours ago, Classicgas said:

These putzes pushing electric as being green are so clueless. It takes the burning of fossil fuels to make your stupid batteries and to generate the electricity to charge them. Nuclear and solar power is simply not enough.

The fossil fuel energy consumed in mining enough lithium to make one EV battery is greater than the lifetime energy output of the battery itself. So, an EV has a larger carbon footprint than an ICE before the car is even built.

Lithium is a limited resource. There is not enough on the planet to serve the needs of a global population driving EVs. Man will rape the planet in search and extraction of this stuff in the name of 'going green'.

If the entire motoring public is required to obtain an additional energy supply from the electrical grid equal to the energy quantity currently obtained from fossil fuels, the grid will fail. As it is, the grid in many areas can't keep up with heating/cooling demands in cities during temperature extremes (which themselves are getting worse with climate change and population increase), causing frequent brown-outs and grid collapse. The improvements to infrastructure will cost many billions and take years to complete.

A mass switch to EV is a highly short-sighted mistake. If we all suddenly change to EVs, all of the IC vehicles will have to be scrapped. But EVs are not sustainable, even in the short term, which means when the real solution is perfected (likely some form of hydrogen energy, either in the form of fuel cells or hydrogen powered ICs), all of the EVs will then be scrapped in favour of the new solution. The result is a massive waste of resources and money in portions that boggle the mind.

[PatW]

Here in the UK I run an ECO Renault Captur Diesel 1.5, It does 54 MPG round town and 63MPG on a long run. After 3 years from new they have to have an MOT certificate of road worthiness, brakes/steering/no rust/good tyres and brakes. But also an exhaust check for Co2 emissions, due to amount of filters in the exhaust and throughout the turbo engine it registers on the government test equipment Zero Emissions! So we don't pay what is called Road Fund Tax each year.

It's now 8 years old and done 65000 miles so as we are in our 70's this will be our last car, and as most say on here EV's are just too expensive, and as yet the government haven't rated EV's for Road Fund Tax, but as they make Billions of Pounds from this tax on combustion engines they can't afford to loose that all of us changing to EV's, interesting! Also they stopped any further research on Hydrogen vehicles that only emit water from the exhaust as across all government departments there was no agreement of what taxes to charge us for using them!

[Mark]

Common sense and logic would point towards different types of power being used in different situations.

But logic fails to take into account the powers that be, and their ability and willingness to put their collective thumb on the scale, handicapping, regulating, and crippling anything not in their favor, and dishing out breaks to the chosen solution (in which they, their families, and friends coincidentally have large investments...)

[Xingu]

We knew this thread would be to tempting to some here.

Removed the political posts from this thread and handed down appropriate punishment to those that made them.

Not sure why folks forget that we do not allow political discussions here. There are better places for that sort of thing.

[BlackSheep214]

2 hours ago, Bainford said:

The fossil fuel energy consumed in mining enough lithium to make one EV battery is greater than the lifetime energy output of the battery itself. So, an EV has a larger carbon footprint than an ICE before the car is even built.

Lithium is a limited resource. There is not enough on the planet to serve the needs of a global population driving EVs. Man will rape the planet in search and extraction of this stuff in the name of 'going green'.

If the entire motoring public is required to obtain an additional energy supply from the electrical grid equal to the energy quantity currently obtained from fossil fuels, the grid will fail. As it is, the grid in many areas can't keep up with heating/cooling demands in cities during temperature extremes (which themselves are getting worse with climate change and population increase), causing frequent brown-outs and grid collapse. The improvements to infrastructure will cost many billions and take years to complete.

A mass switch to EV is a highly short-sighted mistake. If we all suddenly change to EVs, all of the IC vehicles will have to be scrapped. But EVs are not sustainable, even in the short term, which means when the real solution is perfected (likely some form of hydrogen energy, either in the form of fuel cells or hydrogen powered ICs), all of the EVs will then be scrapped in favour of the new solution. The result is a massive waste of resources and money in portions that boggle the mind.

Well said. Now try telling that to the politicians from federal all the way down to the state governors and green nuts. Those green nuts have a one way vision of things without looking at the reality of the world. Our NYS governor wants to ban all gas powered lawn equipment or face $100 fines. I call BS and go **** themselves. I refuse to bow down to their petty laws.

[BlackSheep214]

7 minutes ago, Xingu said:

We knew this thread would be to tempting to some here.

Removed the political posts from this thread and handed down appropriate punishment to those that made them.

Not sure why folks forget that we do not allow political discussions here. There are better places for that sort of thing.

Political discussion can be mature, civilized discussions without offending folks as long as we're all... well just that...  civilized. The ones that are easily offended are the ones that have a problem that causes these threads to get locked down. In another forum I belong to, we do have political discussions but they NEVER go off the rails.

Take it as you will. I'm the wolf but I refuse to follow the sheep. 

[Tabbysdaddy]

26 minutes ago, BlackSheep214 said:

Well said. Now try telling that to the politicians from federal all the way down to the state governors and green nuts. Those green nuts have a one way vision of things without looking at the reality of the world. Our NYS governor wants to ban all gas powered lawn equipment or face $100 fines. I call BS and go **** themselves. I refuse to bow down to their petty laws.

Who would I owe $100? State is a what not a who.

[Xingu]

1 hour ago, BlackSheep214 said:

Political discussion can be mature, civilized discussions without offending folks as long as we're all... well just that...  civilized. The ones that are easily offended are the ones that have a problem that causes these threads to get locked down. In another forum I belong to, we do have political discussions but they NEVER go off the rails.

Take it as you will. I'm the wolf but I refuse to follow the sheep. 

Doesn't matter if the discussions are civilized or not, they are not allowed here.

[BlackSheep214]

This isn't a political discussion.... unless you assume it's a political discussion. No disrespect towards you but just sayin'...

[Smoke Wagon]

 

2 hours ago, BlackSheep214 said:

Now try telling that to the politicians from federal all the way down to the state governors and green nuts. Those green nuts have a one way vision of things without looking at the reality of the world. Our NYS governor wants to ban all gas powered lawn equipment or face $100 fines. I call BS and go **** themselves. I refuse to bow down to their petty laws.

 

58 minutes ago, BlackSheep214 said:

This isn't a political discussion.... unless you assume it's a political discussion.

Gee, it’s quite a wonder why anybody would assume that you’re trying to make it into a political discussion.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Smoke Wagon

[Tabbysdaddy]

13 minutes ago, Smoke Wagon said:

 

 

Gee, it’s quite a wonder why anybody would assume that you’re trying to make it into a political discussion.

Sounds like current events to me.