A question about "Box Stock" built contest models......

[larman]

It is my understanding that "Box Stock" class models have to be built using only what is in the box. No parts upgrades or changes, detail parts,etc. The class focuses on build and paint quality. Is it legal to use the sprue included in the kit to create a roll bar, if there isn't one included in the kit and you are building a drag version that should have one? The sprue is included in the box, but is scratch building, even with included items, allowed?

[CabDriver]

Given that a lot of contests require you to display the instruction manual with your build to make sure you didn't deviate from it, I'm going to say no would probably be the answer for most contests...but I'd check with the organizer of whatever contest it was.

Sure would open a can of worms if they allowed you to use anything in the BOX as opposed to building the kit 'box stock'.

[vamach1]

In a word no.  Some contests ask the builder to provide the instructions with the model so a judge would look at the if there was a question about a kit part versus the spruce which if used would be an alteration from the box stock build definition.

[Snake45]

No. It's pretty strict. For example, in airplanes, you're not even allowed to cut a canopy that's molded in one piece in two so you can display it open. 

There's one exception I find hilarious. Over in Model Airplane World they have such a seatbelt fetish that you're allowed to add simple seatbelts made of paper or tape. 

Oh, "box stock" does allow you to use any decals, though. So there's that. 

[crazyjim]

Some contests allow BMF and carpeting.

[larman]

45 minutes ago, crazyjim said:

Some contests allow BMF and carpeting.

Hmm. I didn't know that BMF wouldn't be considered part of the build process, like paint. I thought that was universally allowed. The reason I posted this thread is, I just got another AMT '57 Ford "Flashback" kit at Ollies and I wanted to build it to match the box art. I figured that maybe I would enter box stock with it at some point, but I was thinking it should have a roll bar and I am going to build it with BMF. I could forget the roll bar, but I am not going to build a kit with that much chrome and not use BMF. 

[espo]

I would check with who ever is judging the show you're thinking of entering since the details of what they will or will not allow can vary.  

[Muncie]

1 minute ago, espo said:

I would check with who ever is judging the show you're thinking of entering since the details of what they will or will not allow can vary.  

Very True,  I've heard of box stock rules that allowed allowed using everything in the box including the box... stretched sprue was allowed for engine detailing.

[mr moto]

2 minutes ago, espo said:

I would check with who ever is judging the show you're thinking of entering since the details of what they will or will not allow can vary.  

That's exactly true. In my area BMF is always allowed and I've heard of stretched sprue being allowed for antennas so the roll bar question MIGHT be okay. Just ask first.

[Danno]

Every contest likely has its own definition of what is allowed in its 'Box Stock' class. You are best off reviewing the rules for a specific contest . . . and following them. If in doubt, ask.

Likewise, if you deviate, they'll likely disqualify your entry.

And, as has been said, most require the instruction sheet be supplied so any questions can be readily answered by looking at the instructions. If the instruction sheet doesn't show a roll bar, no amount of sprue-stretching (or rule stretching) will permit you to add a roll bar. In most instances.

Finally, check the specific contest for paint-finish-decal-bare metal foil rules.

*In events we produce, these are the criteria.*  Usually, deviation from these rules gets a 'Box Stock' entry re-classified to a no-holds-barred category and placed into competition with models constructed with no limitation of parts sourcing.

🌵😎

[Exotics_Builder]

27 minutes ago, Danno said:

Every contest likely has its own definition of what is allowed in its 'Box Stock' class. You are best off reviewing the rules for a specific contest . . . and following them. If in doubt, ask.

Likewise, if you deviate, they'll likely disqualify your entry.

And, as has been said, most require the instruction sheet be supplied so any questions can be readily answered by looking at the instructions. If the instruction sheet doesn't show a roll bar, no amount of sprue-stretching (or rule stretching) will permit you to add a roll bar. In most instances.

Finally, check the specific contest for paint-finish-decal-bare metal foil rules.

*In events we produce, these are the criteria.*  Usually, deviation from these rules gets a 'Box Stock' entry re-classified to a no-holds-barred category and placed into competition with models constructed with no limitation of parts sourcing.

🌵😎

Double that

[peteski]

Yes, every contest has its own set of "box stock" rules.  There is no universal set of rules every contest uses.  Best to check the rules for the specific contests. Usually the contest flyer with the rules is available long before the contest takes place.  Foil (BMF, or whatever) is usually allowed because it is basically considered part of the finishing process - like paint.

[Plowboy]

3 hours ago, larman said:

Hmm. I didn't know that BMF wouldn't be considered part of the build process, like paint. I thought that was universally allowed. The reason I posted this thread is, I just got another AMT '57 Ford "Flashback" kit at Ollies and I wanted to build it to match the box art. I figured that maybe I would enter box stock with it at some point, but I was thinking it should have a roll bar and I am going to build it with BMF. I could forget the roll bar, but I am not going to build a kit with that much chrome and not use BMF. 

BMF is part of the build process. It's no different than paint or glue. You just can't use or make parts that aren't in the kit. I have seen people alter parts and get by with it. I've seen box stock models that were clearly lowered be legal and win. Like others have mentioned, check the rules for the given contest.

[Russell C]

FYI, the GSL Contest's category of "Box Plus" is described at length fight near the top of this page:  http://www.gslchampionship.org/competition-principles/

[GMP440]

14 hours ago, larman said:

It is my understanding that "Box Stock" class models have to be built using only what is in the box. No parts upgrades or changes, detail parts,etc. The class focuses on build and paint quality. Is it legal to use the sprue included in the kit to create a roll bar, if there isn't one included in the kit and you are building a drag version that should have one? The sprue is included in the box, but is scratch building, even with included items, allowed?

I would say why not.  It's a part of the kit that came in the box.  I would do it.

[Capt. Speirs]

On 6/11/2021 at 5:56 AM, larman said:

It is my understanding that "Box Stock" class models have to be built using only what is in the box. 

What happened to the "Out of Box" Class? If it's in the box you can use it and do what you want with it.

[Mark]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:56 AM, larman said:

It is my understanding that "Box Stock" class models have to be built using only what is in the box. No parts upgrades or changes, detail parts,etc. The class focuses on build and paint quality. Is it legal to use the sprue included in the kit to create a roll bar, if there isn't one included in the kit and you are building a drag version that should have one? The sprue is included in the box, but is scratch building, even with included items, allowed?

Theoretically, you could melt down the parts and sprues that you don't want to use, and shoot the plastic into a tool for some other kit that has the parts you want.  How far should the rules be stretched?  

The general interpretation is that all of the parts used in the build should be recognizable as having come from that kit.  To me, stretched sprue wouldn't even fit that interpretation, let alone parts reshaped from other parts or the sprues in the box.

[Pete J.]

Ah yes, Box stock!  The simplest rules but subject to more attempts to stretch the rules than any other category.  In point of fact, IPMS had to dedicate a page and a half to the actual rules this year for nationals.  Granted, there are a lot of potential exceptions when you have a hundred or so categories so it is unlikely that your local car club contest would go that far. 

Having said that, I believe most of the contests I have attended define OOB in a simple manner.  The model must be built with what came in the box as specified in the instructions.  Finish materials are generally not provided in the box any more so the model builder can choose their own.  Finish materials generally include glue, fillers, paints, decals and other decal like materials i.e. adhesive foils and stickers.  That is pretty much it. 

As to sprue and other non-parts bits(such as sprue, paper from the instructions or packaging materials) must comply with the "built as specified in the instruction".  If there are instruction on building a roll cage from the sprue in the instructions, then yes, have at it.  If not, then no.  The most common "make your own" parts specified in the instructions  include using a portion of the instructions to make paper seat belts and stretched sprue for antennas but that is about it. 

Remember, the basic intent of OOB is to test the builders basic skills.  How well can you glue, paint and decal.  The advent of super high part count kits creates a disparity between the $15 Revell Chevy and the $100 Tamiya  Redbull but selecting the best kit to compete is at the discretion of the builder.  

[Mark]

Our IPMS chapter has been kicking around the notion of dropping Out of Box categories lately, due to the disparity in the level of detail between older tool kits and newer ones, also that some newer aircraft and tank kits contain advanced parts like photoetch and even resin.  Also, a lot of (clearly) more advanced modelers enter these categories in hopes of increasing their trophy haul for the day, again leaving the beginners out in the cold.

[Tom Geiger]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:28 AM, Mark said:

Also, a lot of (clearly) more advanced modelers enter these categories in hopes of increasing their trophy haul for the day, again leaving the beginners out in the cold.

Yes, the greedy trophy hounds ruin it for everyone!  The box stock classes were designed for newer modelers to get experience.

Same with a guy who builds at the quality of this board, and goes to his local hobby shop contest and wins all the awards!  Big fish, little pond! And all they have accomplished is to turn off new modelers and kids to entering shows!

[Snake45]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:28 AM, Mark said:

Our IPMS chapter has been kicking around the notion of dropping Out of Box categories lately, due to the disparity in the level of detail between older tool kits and newer ones, also that some newer aircraft and tank kits contain advanced parts like photoetch and even resin. 

An experienced IPMS guy once told me, "Yes, but the more parts, the more detail, the more chance there is to screw something up." IPMS (for example) judges on cleanliness and perfection of assembly and finish, regardless of the detail level. 

[larman]

 

1 hour ago, Tom Geiger said:

Yes, the greedy trophy hounds ruin it for everyone!  The box stock classes were designed for newer modelers to get experience.

Same with a guy who builds at the quality of this board, and goes to his local hobby shop contest and wins all the awards!  Big fish, little pond! And all they have accomplished is to turn off new modelers and kids to entering shows!

As I said above, I was considering building the AMT "Flashback" '57 Ford to match the box art. To keep things simple, I was thinking of building it "box stock" and maybe eventually enter it in that class, if I ever decided to do so. I was just wondering if building a roll bar from sprue would be legit for the class, since a drag car like the box art would probably have one. I certainly, don't consider myself a "greedy trophy hound" and I don't even know if I would enter the model, especially since I haven't even built it yet, but I was  considering perimeters and figured I would ask people on here who do enter contests regularly, or know the rules. I thank everyone for their responses, they have been a big help. I may wind up building the kit to match the "Flashback" box art, but swap the motor to an FE and make it closer to a real gas class car and forget the "box stock" idea altogether. Even more likely will be that I will do nothing with it and the kit will collect dust with all the others sitting in my basement....😜

[Tom Geiger]

30 minutes ago, larman said:

 

As I said above, I was considering building the AMT "Flashback" '57 Ford to match the box art. To keep things simple, I was thinking of building it "box stock" and maybe eventually enter it in that class, if I ever decided to do so. I was just wondering if building a roll bar from sprue would be legit for the class, since a drag car like the box art would probably have one. I certainly, don't consider myself a "greedy trophy hound" and I don't even know if I would enter the model, especially since I haven't even built it yet, but I was  considering perimeters and figured I would ask people on here who do enter contests regularly, or know the rules. I thank everyone for their responses, they have been a big help. I may wind up building the kit to match the "Flashback" box art, but swap the motor to an FE and make it closer to a real gas class car and forget the "box stock" idea altogether. Even more likely will be that I will do nothing with it and the kit will collect dust with all the others sitting in my basement....😜

 No, my comments weren’t aimed at you. My response was to Mark’s comment I quoted.

[Pete J.]

As to the Trophy hound comments I will add this.  Frankly, I think it is the most difficult class to do well in.  All the detail and modification can disguise basic building flaws with the Wow factor.  I think I can say that because I have never placed first in an OOB category. For those who know me, they know I have won my share of accolades at the national level but I just can't seem to put the best model on the table in OOB.  I think it is fair to say that of all the categories in modeling,  OOB has the most level playing field. As Snake said, being judged strictly on assembly and finish is a different kettle of fish from creating an accurate, highly detailed model.  Yes, some of the newer kits have more detail and in many cases photoetched and other "improvements"  but the more complex the model the more likely to make a mistake in the basics.  

[larman]

16 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

 No, my comments weren’t aimed at you. My response was to Mark’s comment I quoted.

Ok. Sorry I misunderstood, thanks for clarifying! 😀