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Well it’s finally announced.😦


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So it’s been officially announced.Dodge will discontinue its gas-powered Challenger and Charger muscle cars at the end of next year, as the brand transitions to electric ...🙄Here we go more electric cars on our roads.The way things are going,soon the majority of cars on the roads will be electric.Actually I think i read somewhere that is exactly what the objective of the government is by 2035,idk,maybe it was by that year.Anyway,holy Jeeze.🤮😵💀.Has anybody else read more about this?This is the quote I read on line….”Dodge will discontinue its gas-powered Challenger and Charger muscle cars at the end of next year, as the brand transitions to electric”.

Edited by NYLIBUD
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I'm still driving a 05 chevy equinox LT and folks out here with new corvettes and fancy electric cars lol.  It might be a 05 but i take care of the darn thing and with 189K only major job I've had to do myself was change both head gaskets.  It's gonna get to the point eventually we wont even be able to work on our own cars.

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2 hours ago, NYLIBUD said:

... soon the majority of cars on the roads will be electric...

The media folks back east who bat this idea around in their newspaper/magazine articles and cable talk shows have never traveled an inch across the American southwest. There is no way that could possibly work out.

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2 hours ago, Dave Van said:

They do realize EV's are powered, 85% at least, by fossil fueled power plants??? Coal powered cars as 'Green' are funny!!! 

Not only that, but a good portion of the materials needed to make the batteries, (namely Lithium and cobalt), come from other countries.

Does anybody really know what kind of world supply we have of these minerals?

 

Here we go again.

Putting the cart before the horse with regard to available supply, not to mention once again relying on other countries for our energy.

 

What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

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Whatever. I'm done with it!

They're not going to get me to buy into all this propaganda. This situation is a disaster that's just going to have to play out before any of them learn the outcome!

Electric cars are not the magic solution, they're just the next step in the wrong direction. 

Somebody has got to be making a boatload of kickback money under the table to be pushing this hard on a well documented scam of EVs being the answer to Global warming. 

What's going to power those cars when all the power grids fail? How are they going to build them when there's already a shortage of computer chips? Where are they going to mine all the rare minerals needed for the batteries? And how are they going to safely dispose of said waste when these cars have to be crushed?

Already mentioned was the coal and fuel plants needed to produce the electricity.

Hey Greenies! Don't lie to us, windmills and solar panels are not nearly enough energy to sustain the amount needed for us to survive. 

I'm not against clean energy, but nobody is laying the proper groundwork BEFORE dumping fossil fuels entirely. Like Steve said, putting the cart before the horse is just plain naive and stupid!

Oh, and I guess they'll have to start a subsidy program to hand out free EVs and electrical cords to low and middle income families and outsiders. Cause I know a lot of people who can't afford 75k on a unwanted necessity. And with the economy the way it's going, thats probably going to go higher!

Edited by Oldcarfan27
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There's an even bigger problem with the ev switchover that seems to have been forgotten. Farmers use their tractors every possible hour, and the same tractor powers the machines they are pulling around. At the moment a tractors can easily run for 12 hours or more on a tank of fuel. What happens when they go ev? its not like they can afford to buy all new independantly powered machines and multiple tractors to do the same jobs they do now. that cost will go into our food bills and it sure wont be the farmers pocketing the cash. and how much will it cost just to get the massive amount of new power cables into farming communities to charge them? The much better option is hydrogen fuel. Stick a few hundred thousnd windmills in the southern ocean, where there are very few shipping lanes, to power making the hydrogen from the constant predicable winds along with multiple wave generators in the bases and you have a pretty powerful power source thats not likelly to run out (there a good reason theres not many shipping lanes down there). And its where nobody goes. There your cleaner fuel for electricity generating and the infrastructure to transport it already exists for oil and can be modified for much less cost than new power lines everywhere. it can fuel cars trucks tractors and be made with the same electricity it generates in slack times. It a pity most people get scared of hydrogen because of the hindenberg but that was 80 years ago and technology is much improved since then. ev have their place but how many acres have to be strip mined for the battery meterials? it not being green if you cut down a rain forest to do it, and its not being green if you just create new problems when the batteries are done. how much toxic waste does manufacuring those batteries make? Dont get me wrong, I love internal combustion engines from the old put put single cylinders my grandparents powered their house with (lister) to the ridiculous v16 in the bugattis, but their time has really passed for new cars if we want to save the planet. but dont get rid of your big v8 classics, keep your flathead rods and your sky high trucks for special occasions but maybe have something a little kinder to the enviroment for daily driving. I dont want to lose the cars I love but at the same time I know something has to change. There was a forest fire in the artic circle last year, and thats something that should be impossible. it seems like most of the south of europe is in drought or on fire, and the same is happening right around the world. remember exxon has been lieing to us since 1979, and they knew then what was going to happen. did they warn us? did they nothing, they bought up so called independant experts to lie to us and spin the story for their profits. They spun the story to be people being crazy, paid off politicians and lied some more. when they got caight in their lies they lied some more and because they spent so many years paying people off, people believed them before the real scientists. sorry to rant, give the bbc series big oil vs the world a watch, its eye opening what exxon knew and when

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Also there been some very promising leaps forward in possibly even being able to suck some  pretty big quantities of carbon out of the air by seeding certain types of plankton with iron oxide. I'm not sure the breed of plankton but they found one that turns out to filter the carbon out of sea water which then solidifies after the plankton is filter fed by corals. They think that if they can stimulate these plankton to grow more, it will allow the sea to absorb more carbon from the atmosphere. Already in certain conditions this plankton blooms can be seen from space but since its a recent discovery there more research to be done just in case there are any problems it may cause. The big hope is that since the iron oxide is naturaly occuring and the plankton that it could be done nearly everywhere. They've also found a plankton that eats oil that could be used for spills.there is hope, its not all bad news however change has to happen unfortunately but before we spend trillions somebody has to promote the alternatives that are available. and rural areas are always the last to get infrastructure upgrades, so what happens when you get sick but you live 350 miles from the hospital? your range wont be as high as someone that drives on pavement and i'm pretty sure the vehicles wont hold together nealry as long either. there more flaws than benefits in my opinion with evs if you live outside a decent size town

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The UK will already stop the sale of new gas powered cars in 2030 or something. All the brands like Dodge are just trying to get on board with the new technology’s before a banned like you UK stops their sales. 
 

Can they sell me a reasonably priced EV that does 800km per charge? No. Until they travel 500 miles a tank for under $40,000 USD they aren’t practical and travelling 186 miles down Route 66 and then stopping for a long charge just ain’t going to happen. 

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6 hours ago, stitchdup said:

There's an even bigger problem with the ev switchover that seems to have been forgotten. Farmers use their tractors every possible hour, and the same tractor powers the machines they are pulling around.

Farmers! PFFFFT! They're just a drag on the economy. All they do is pollute the air with all that diesel they burn! Everybody knows that food comes from the grocery store.

(Sarcasm)

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I think the push to go electric is good in principle, but it should not be a forced 100% deal. There are a lot of drivers who are not car enthusiasts who will gladly drive EVs. There are a lot of city and suburban commuters who never drive long distances who would make good EV owners. If only those drivers switched to EVs, it could make a difference (ignoring the manufacturing and dirty power plant factors). There are a lot of 2 or more vehicle households that could make use of one EV if they felt the need to do their part? There are also a lot of uses and situations where an EV is simply not optimal or feasible. It is simply ridiculous at this point in time to expect farmers, truckers and construction equipment to go electric.

We have a lithium and tantalum mine here in Manitoba, but unfortunately it is owned by China!🤨

Edited by NOBLNG
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There's always the hydrogen option...No pollutants, hydrogen can be gathered on site, a fill up takes only slightly longer than with gas. Granted, the tech isn't mature, but it could be. I hope to be gone by the time gas engines are gone...it's all I've ever known.

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And here we go again. 

Cue the tired EV complaints and comparisons to peoples' apparently awesome 15 year old cars that are better. 🙄

 

Dodge announced last year that their ICE cars were going away by 2024. And that they would have a new EV muscle car on the road in 2024. They posted teaser pics last year, so this isn't any kind of big surprise.

 

*puts on flame retardant suit*

 

Something a lot of the naysayers forgets is that the switchover to EV and upcoming bans on sales of new ICE vehicles only applies to non-commercial vehicles. Trucks bigger than 1/2 ton, cargo vans, buses, delivery trucks, etc will continue to be powered by gas and diesel. Also, this will not mean that existing ICE vehicles are banned. Everyone can keep on driving their old cars and SUVs. And you will still be able to purchase used ICE vehicles.

Will ICE eventually be phased out of everything? Yup, I think so. But we're decades away from that. And by that time, EV will be generally well accepted as a part of our lives.

 

I can just imagine being back in 1900, when the last major change in transportation fuel happened...the switch to cars from the horse and buggy.

Everyone complaining about how much more expensive a car was compared to their horses and buggies. 

The environmental activists complaining about how much grain and feed horses were consuming. The "emissions" coming from the horses. The flies the emissions attracted. 

Others complaining about how unsafe these cars were, because all of a sudden we had accidents as people tried to show off their new tech, not really understanding how it was to be used

 

That switch and acceptance took a few decades, as will the switch to EV. 

Will EV be the right choice for everyone? Nope. Not until the tech improves and gets us more range and faster charging. 

Is EV the right choice for some? Totally. 

Is EV green and environmentally friendly? Kind of. Yes, the electrical grid is powered largely by coal still, and the bigger the demand on the power grid, the more coal will be burned. But it will help in the cities and urban centers. Less exhaust, less noise pollution. So cities will technically become greener and air quality will improve. And yes, mining for battery components is currently incredibly dirty. But again, new tech is being introduced, and reliance on some of those components will shrink.

 

Okay, now get it out of your system. Start the arguments telling me that everything I wrote is wrong.

 

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29 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

...Okay, now get it out of your system. Start the arguments telling me that everything I wrote is wrong.

 

That's what's happened every time I've started trying to have a reasonably intelligent conversation about these issues, and I've been shouted down, in some cases by BOTH sides...even when I've tried to present FAIR and BALANCED and FACTUAL information.

I really no longer give a rat's rump about posting facts and numbers and reality, because very few people ever let facts and numbers and reality influence their largely unfounded opinions.

There are pros and cons to EVs, but they're not the magic bullet to "save the planet" all the rebleating sheeple would have us believe.

EDIT: And don't forget, now the green weenies are going after emissions from fertilizer, and tractors, and livestock, all over the Western world, with apparently no realization that their actions will inevitably decrease food yields, leading to more severe shortages.

When you have ignorant fools who are firmly convinced of their own moral superiority running things (and who mistakenly believe they understand "technology" because they all rely heavily on "smart" phones for everything), you get what you get. But they will not have much effect on me.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO
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My brother in law just bought a Tesla, and I gotta say, it's an impressive car.  Super quick, does a bunch of cool stuff (and some dumb stuff too - he was pranking me with the car's built-in whoopie cushion feature), looks cool, comfortable, fun to drive.  Can walk my Mustang EASILY, and throws you back in the seat as well as anything I've ever driven.  I was impressed, and want one.

That said, I don't think the network is there yet (imagine trying to charge them if you live in an apartment in NYC, and what happens to the numb-nuts who run out of juice in the middle of nowhere, because people do things like that), and I'd love to have seen a bigger move to renewable fuel sources instead of a move to EVs.  But it's happening, regardless of how us car-guys think - the same way vinyl records got largely replaced by Spotify.  No one took vinyl away, and you can still get it...but times change, and the average person doesn't care as much as the aficionados do.

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19 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

That's what's happened every time I've started trying to have a reasonably intelligent conversation about these issues...

 

Bill, the info you present is generally among the most correct here. I think the only reason many write you off or chastise you is because they tune out as soon as you start calling people "green weenies" or "sheeple."

I still think the post you made a while back with the Volvo video comparing ICE to EV was one of the best I've seen. And I still refer to it when discussing with clients.

 

Others though...ICE good, EV bad, no in-between, no rationale, just blindly repeating the talking points of their preferred source of info.

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1 hour ago, Repstock said:

There's always the hydrogen option...No pollutants, hydrogen can be gathered on site, a fill up takes only slightly longer than with gas. Granted, the tech isn't mature, but it could be. I hope to be gone by the time gas engines are gone...it's all I've ever known.

Toyota is working on hydrogen powered vehicles in addition to EVs. Reality is that there is not infinite supplies of minerals to build batteries forever. The environmental damage caused by mining the minerals needed for batteries is severe, but we won't talk about that. Fossil fueled power plants to supply electricity will still contribute to the pollution and as long as India and China do little to nothing to curb their pollution, the problem will continue.

Any time you let governments dictate the economy, you should expect the worse. The push to EVs was not initiated by auto manufacturers.

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 @iamsuperdan

Hey, thank god that doesn’t happen elsewhere here…wait, what?

The grid here and dearth of charging stations with huge distances to cover just not practical. There’s no cell nor gas stations where I often drive. I looked in ‘14, not much change since. I ordered ‘23 last year of twin turbo v8 wagon, replacing my old one. Get them while you can, but I’d buy a Lightning in a heartbeat. 

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I have to agree with most everyone else on the EV issue for new cars and trucks. I'm old and stuck in my ways and sure glad I bought a new Charger a couple of years ago as I'll have to drive it till, I drop. The big MPG figures that have been forced on auto manufactures is one of the main reasons for going EV. A very big problem is already starting to show itself to EV owners now. The grid is woefully inadequate for even todays needs let alone adding thousands of vehicles that have to be recharged all the time. The number of charging stations are far too few and not all of them even use a universal plug-in hook up. Have we thought about when all these batteries are no longer able to hold a charge? Do you have any idea what a replacement battery costs and the disposal fee on the old one? Unless you have a solar panel on your car instead of a sunroof and a windmill helping push you down the road you are going to be indirectly dependent on fossil fuels to produce your electricity. How are you going to figure out how to collect taxes to pay for our roads and infrastructure. All we're doing is trading a headache for an upset stomach on this automotive power situation.   

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40 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

... I think the only reason many write you off or chastise you is because they tune out as soon as you start calling people "green weenies" or "sheeple."     Let's pretend that's always part of my opening salvo...but nope, it's not. Only after willful ignorance begins attacking do I get to that point, and I generally try to keep things cordial, as I am, in fact, an adult communicator. But the frustration from the constant deluge of energy and climate "experts" who derived all their in-depth knowledge from listening to PBS or CNN a couple of times has become too much for me to remain civil, so I'll refrain from going any further.

...no rationale, just blindly repeating the talking points of their preferred source of info.  Your words, not mine, and the very definition of "sheeple".

 

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15 minutes ago, espo said:

Have we thought about when all these batteries are no longer able to hold a charge? Do you have any idea what a replacement battery costs and the disposal fee on the old one? 

In 2015, total costs for battery replacement on a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid was between $8-10k CDN. The company I worked for had several in the rental fleet. When I left there last fall, the total replacement cost was down to $4k CDN.

So prices are coming down as these get more common, and the aftermarket catches up. 

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