Round2 -- AMT & MPC Kits for 2021

[Bills72sj]

I am a big fan of the 66 2+2 too. I was showing my GP and was parked next to a Brandywine colored one at an all Pontiac show decades ago. I loved the lines of the car. Regarding the 65 GP and 2+2 kits, I want to have the front end of the 2+2 but the tail end of the GP. Where would be the best place to make the cuts to marry the creation I envision?

[Mark]

5 hours ago, Bills72sj said:

I am a big fan of the 66 2+2 too. I was showing my GP and was parked next to a Brandywine colored one at an all Pontiac show decades ago. I loved the lines of the car. Regarding the 65 GP and 2+2 kits, I want to have the front end of the 2+2 but the tail end of the GP. Where would be the best place to make the cuts to marry the creation I envision?

Doing it that way (2+2 front/GP back end) depends on which roofline you want.  If you want a fastback, it would be pretty much like mine except you wouldn't need to fit the 2+2 rear bumper, you'd need the GP unit.  That would actually be less work than mine.

For the GP roofline, you'd be adapting a 2+2 front bumper to a Grand Prix body.  There is a very slight variation in width between the two bodies which could complicate things.

[mk11]

If you can surmount potential difficulties with the grill width (another issue is slightly asymmetrical headlight stacks), another way to come at this might be to use the roof from the modstock '66 chevy on the GP body as an alternative to quarter surgery. I currently have a topless gp body awaiting a decision to become either a parisienne ragtop or hardtop; powered, of course, by a 409    

GM canada did a masterful job of hanging the pontiac sheetmetal on the chev superstructure through the sixties. The two inch w/b difference between chev and pontiac frames was easy to hide in the pontiac wheel openings, one inch back on the front and an inch forward at the rear.

Edited March 6, 2021 by mk11

[Oldcarfan27]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:51 PM, mk11 said:

If you can surmount potential difficulties with the grill width (another issue is slightly asymmetrical headlight stacks), another way to come at this might be to use the roof from the modstock '66 chevy on the GP body as an alternative to quarter surgery. I currently have a topless gp body awaiting a decision to become either a parisienne ragtop or hardtop; powered, of course, by a 409    

GM canada did a masterful job of hanging the pontiac sheetmetal on the chev superstructure through the sixties. The two inch w/b difference between chev and pontiac frames was easy to hide in the pontiac wheel openings, one inch back on the front and an inch forward at the rear.

Why didn't they just use the Pontiac frame??

[Mark]

Same reason they used the Chevy engine.  GM didn't want to set up to produce two different frames in Canada.  And they wanted to produce them there, for the cars sold there.  So they used the same chassis and engine in both Chevrolet and Pontiac there.

[RDean58]

Having a new Bonnie kit is nice, but I would really love for Round2 to find the Bonneville convertible promo body and put that in the kit instead of the hardtop!

[charlie8575]

8 hours ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

Why didn't they just use the Pontiac frame??

 

6 hours ago, Mark said:

Same reason they used the Chevy engine.  GM didn't want to set up to produce two different frames in Canada.  And they wanted to produce them there, for the cars sold there.  So they used the same chassis and engine in both Chevrolet and Pontiac there.

All the details escape me at the moment, but the "Too long, didn't read" version is Canada had very high taxes on American-produced parts to encourage its own industry's growth. Where Canada is also a much smaller market than the U.S., it didn't make sense to have exact duplication, so they used the parts that had the highest volume.

Canadian Pontiacs, by the way, have their own, unique sheetmetal I found out, after speaking to the local to me owner of a 1959 Parisienne, who discovered this while restoring his car. The Pontiacs had the same 119-inch wheelbase Chevys did.

Charlie Larkin

[mk11]

1 hour ago, RDean58 said:

Having a new Bonnie kit is nice, but I would really love for Round2 to find the Bonneville convertible promo body and put that in the kit instead of the hardtop!

X2!

38 minutes ago, charlie8575 said:

Canadian Pontiacs, by the way, have their own, unique sheetmetal I found out, after speaking to the local to me owner of a 1959 Parisienne, who discovered this while restoring his car. The Pontiacs had the same 119-inch wheelbase Chevys did.

The uniqueness comes mainly from the alterations at the mounting points to the chev superstructure, not necessarily the visible skin. The wheel openings are long enough to allow the wheel centers to be moved 1 inch back at the front and forward at the rear to allow for the chev 119" w/base. Regardless, it was engineering money well spent, as it was one of the best selling cars here through the sixties.

[Mark]

One book I have on Canadian automobiles states that, for a good part of the Sixties, Pontiac actually outsold Chevrolet there.  It's credible...the price difference was less there than here, and the buyer did get the differences that were visible, if not those under the skin.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Mark
Spelling

[ChrisBcritter]

One thing you didn't get was the "Wide-Track" - Canadian Pontiacs were easy to spot from the narrow Chevy track width.

 

[mk11]

It was definitely easier to see the difference in '59/'60, when the pontiac front track was 63.75" and the chev track was 60.3". By '65, however, the track difference between chv and pnt was only 1/2 an inch per side. The easiest way to identify a canadian pontiac is the parallel wipers instead of the clapper style, as the northern cars used the chevy cowl.

Edited March 10, 2021 by mk11

[Brian Austin]

According to Wikipedia, Canadian-built Pontiacs shared components with their Chevrolet counterparts "... as a measure to reduce the cost of production for the relatively small Canadian market."*  IIRC FoMoCo and Chrysler did similar things with their Canadian/export lines. 

Export models were built in Canada, with dash equipped for RHD if needed. I'm most fascinated with the '55-'62 Export Chevy and Pontiac models.

* (scroll down a bit)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_(automobile)

 

[alan barton]

Brian's right - Australia got the Canadian Chevy Bel Airs and Pontiac Parissienes, that were sold through Holden dealers ( also Vauxhall and Bedford).  My grandfather owned five Pontiacs through the sixties and if I recall from my childhood, they also had Chevy dashboards.  Further to that, our 57 Chevies had 55/56 dashboards.  It's all about the bottom line!

Cheers

Alan

[drodg]

On 3/3/2021 at 9:55 PM, Mark said:

The 2+2 conversion/correction involves shortening the body through the quarter panels.  The vertical cut is made at the high point of the arc at the top of the quarter panel, on my car you can see where the primer is dabbed over the bodywork done at the join.  The tulip panel (between the base of the rear window and the top of the trunk opening) is not shortened.  The difference in length at the back is all in the trunk lid; the Bonneville and Catalina have different trunk lids.  

I cut the trunk lid area out of the Bonneville "2+2" and substituted the trunk lid area from a Grand Prix body.  The GP kit body is very minutely wider than the Bonneville body (1:1 should be the same width).   The GP taillight panel is taller than the Bonneville's (again, shouldn't be) so the GP trunk lid doesn't wrap down at the rear as much as it should.  That all has to be fixed, but I figured that was easier than trying to shorten the Bonneville deck lid and recut the panel lines.  

Step one was to lay out the cuts.  The cut across the body (between the rear window opening and deck lid line) was made as close to the latter as possible.  The deck lid area was not cut out first, the quarter panels were cut loose and shortened first.  Care must be taken to keep the body side creases straight, you don't want the quarter panels drooping or rising up towards the back.  As you can see, the rear wheel openings are dealt with later.

Once the quarters are shortened, lined up, and reattached, the GP deck lid is trimmed and fitted.  You do need to use the Bonneville rear bumper to help line things up.  I used a junk one so as not to have to handle the good one and mess up the plating.

Once everything is squared up and reattached, you will be left with a gap between the trunk lid and the top of the Bonneville taillight panel.  I added pieces in to fill the gap.  The 2+2 emblem on the deck lid was lost in the process.  Unfortunately MCG never offered a photoetch set for the 2+2.

If you do the measurements and cuts correctly, the GP chassis will fit and is correct for the wheelbase and length of the 2+2.  I'm still hashing over what to do to the 2+2 kit's taillight panel.  The kit piece is just the Bonneville unit minus the lettering.  The taillights should be shorter, and Pontiac lettering added.  A MCG photoetch set for a GTO or Firebird can probably supply the lettering.  As for wheels, the 2+2 will likely get the set of dog dish caps that I bought from Fireball with the idea of using them for a GTO.  This thing is finally taking shape, it has been in the planning ever since the 2+2 kit was released.

Great conversion.  I have the Sean Carpenter 65 2+2 convertible conversion that is a shortened and a corrected body.  I figured I would use the 65 Grand Prix chassis.  I have never built it and plan to but was also wondering what to do with the tailight panel.  I thought about different ways to cut the rear lenses out and adding the filler from another tail panel.  I doubt it would look good as that goes a tad beyond my skill levels.  Thanks for your post !

[Bob Ellis]

I cut the roof off a 1965 Grand Prix and combined the 2+2 bumpers and interior and created a convertible. Emblems can be made on decals but fender louvers are a bit more complicated. There I used tin foil copy of ERTL 2+2 kit.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Bob Ellis
missing information

[mk11]

Since chev finally adapted a perimeter frame similar to pontiac's in '65, it seems the revell '65 frame is a very close fit for those who need more detail ...

Mr Barron took some good pics...

 

 

 

for this thread...

 

[Casey]

AMT 1242 --  1/25 1959 Cadillac Ambulance

AMT 1263 -- 1/25 1966 Ford Galaxie 427

MKA 1/24 Best of AMT Custom Graphics Decals Volume 1 (should be 1/25?)

MPC 924 -- Monopoly Reading Rail Rod Custom Locomotive (Snap) (assuming this one is the MPC Road Runner Rail Rider, with new decals)

[iBorg]

Quote

Best of AMT Custom Graphics Decals Volume 1

Any clue what this is?

[Dave Van]

Wonder if they 'De  Ghost Busters' the 59?? They have two different tools of the kit so modifying one would be good. 

[Brian Austin]

This is the first I've heard of #1242, sounds interesting.  IIRC the Polar Lights Ectomobile was a different from the older AMT version.  The respective movie cars were slightly different.  It would be nice to see the AMT kit again, even in modified form, since I'd only toss out the Ecto-stuff anyway.

[Rob Hall]

2 hours ago, iBorg said:

Any clue what this is?

No idea, a set of decals of some sort.  Round 2 has done decal sets previously.  

[Mr mopar]

19 hours ago, Casey said:

AMT 1242 --  1/25 1959 Cadillac Ambulance

AMT 1263 -- 1/25 1966 Ford Galaxie 427

MKA 1/24 Best of AMT Custom Graphics Decals Volume 1 (should be 1/25?)

MPC 924 -- Monopoly Reading Rail Rod Custom Locomotive (Snap) (assuming this one is the MPC Road Runner Rail Rider, with new decals)

Who is MKA doing the AMT custom graphic ? I got it there from Polar lights .

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Mr mopar

[Casey]

2 hours ago, Mr mopar said:

Who is MKA doing the AMT custom graphic ? I got it there from Polar lights .

One in the same. That's just Round2's prefix/nomenclature for the decal sheets. An abbreviation for Model Kit Accessories, maybe?

[Mr. Metallic]

16 hours ago, Dave Van said:

Wonder if they 'De  Ghost Busters' the 59?? They have two different tools of the kit so modifying one would be good. 

Since they have 2 tools I guess making one stock is a good idea. However you know whichever one they choose will be the "wrong one" to somebody 😵

But I wonder why they aren't issuing the actual Ghostbusters car (at least not yet announced) since the third movie is supposed to be out this year and the ECTO-1 is prominently featured in the trailers.

[Brian Austin]

Literal shower thought last night:  Round2 might have to modify the interior bucket to remove the molded-in "Ecto" equipment.  The Polar Lights version seems to be less of a problem here than the AMT one.

 

 

Just for fun here I dug out some old comparisons I made.  The AMT kit is the lovely opaque off-white plastic, while the Polar Lights kit is in a more translucent white with violet-ish cast. (Parts generally won't interchange well between the two kits.)  IMHO each kit has its own plusses and minuses.  I'd be happy to see a reissue of either one, as I cut up mine for projects long ago.