Why these insanely overly complex cars will be junk when the dealers no longer maintain repair parts...

[SfanGoch]

A New Brand of Sticker Shock Hits the Car Market

[89AKurt]

On 2/24/2022 at 6:30 AM, Reegs said:

Heated seats. Didn't know the car had them. My buddy turned them on without telling me and I thought I had an accident.

My '16 Honda Civic has them.  On the Honda forum, someone made a meme, the #3 setting shown as 🌞🔥.  Have to admit, I like that feature.

[stavanzer]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:15 PM, bbowser said:

I also hate antilock brakes, stand on the pedal and pray?  Just take away my control, great idea.🤔

Bruce, Have you USED Anti-lock brakes? I have. 

I drove cars with Anti-lock brakes and used them. I had to show customers at the dealer how the Anti-locks worked. And, I've repaired them. This is one of those cases where the 'new-fangled' tech is clearly better. I've owned and driven stock Model T Fords with Rod Actuated Brakes, a 1953 Vintage Military truck with primitive 'Juice" brakes, and now modern cars with Anti-lock. It is one of the few modern systems that is a Hands-Down, No-Questions-Asked improvement. You and I cannot control or pulse the brakes faster or better than the system in Anti-Locks. They provide better straight line stopping power, and are much better at stopping swerves.

Trust me, I am as old school as they come in many ways, but if my wife is in the car, I want Anti-lock brakes on it.

[Rob Hall]

ABS has been mainstream for about 30 years, hasn't it?   IIRC, everything late model I've had since the late 90s has had 4 wheel discs w/ ABS.  They work great.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Rob Hall

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, alexis said:

...if my wife is in the car, I want Anti-lock brakes on it.

And that's it pretty much it in a nutshell.

Anti-lock brakes on street-driven vehicles are most useful when the driver is less than highly-skilled...the vast majority...who might be saved in a panic-stop situation by an anti-lock system.

BUT...highly-skilled drivers very often see the intrusiveness of anti-locks as a detriment to fine car control. Many skilled drivers can USE the ability to lock up their brakes at will as another tool in a driver's box of tricks.

AND...depending on the specific performance characteristics of an anti-lock system, such a system can, in fact, interfere with fine pedal-pressure-modulation inputs from the driver, or inhibit his ability to approach lockup when entering a turn (to settle the car on its suspension, or to help initiate a drift, and then gradually lessening pressure to keep the car drifting at his intended angle).

In general though, there is no perceptible difference between operating a vehicle with anti-locks and without anti-locks within normal parameters. They do nothing different until a panic-stop situation arises, and anyone thinking otherwise doesn't understand their function. 

EDIT: Finally, I agree anti-lock brakes are a good safety feature for MOST of the drivers on the roads, but a driver's stupid over-reliance on them to save him from his own ineptitude or poor decision-making can be dangerous as well.

I've seen multiple "accidents" caused by operating vehicles way too fast for conditions, where the driver thought he was not subject to the laws of physics because he had anti-lock brakes, traction-control, etc.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[stavanzer]

Thanks, Bill.

I am not the highly skilled Race Driver type. I drive well, but that is all. So, for me, ABS is a lifesaver.

[Erik Smith]

1 hour ago, alexis said:

Thanks, Bill.

I am not the highly skilled Race Driver type. I drive well, but that is all. So, for me, ABS is a lifesaver.

As it is for 99.9% of the population (well, the life saver part, not the “drive well” part)

Now, if we could get some type of neck straightener so people won’t be looking down at their phones while driving, or sitting at a green light. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Erik Smith

[Tabbysdaddy]

The ABS system is garbage on my 93 C2500. It isn't anti lock, it's anti stop.

[bbowser]

7 hours ago, alexis said:

Thanks, Bill.

I am not the highly skilled Race Driver type. I drive well, but that is all. So, for me, ABS is a lifesaver.

I don't claim to be an outstanding driver but in icy and snowy conditions we get 9 months a year up here ABS seems ill suited.  Same with traction control when you're trying to get a run up a snow covered hill.  I would guess that most of us here learned to control a vehicle without all these "aids" and therefore can use them appropriately.  How many people do you know can parallel park?  Is that even taught anymore?

[Rob Hall]

I learned to winter drive in the 80s in an underpowered RWD manual car with snow tires, only went off the road and got stuck once in 6 years.   But now I wouldn’t drive in the winter without an AWD SUV w/ winter tires, 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS, 4 wheel low, mud and snow settings, hill descent control, traction control, all the goodies.  
 

 As far as parallel parking, I think I’ve only done it a handful of times in 35 years of driving…when I’m parking in a city, it’s usually in a parking garage or lot. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Rob Hall

[Sandboarder]

My current cars have independent 4 wheel ABS brakes. I have used them and could feel the different from 90s ABS braking systems. Most definitely a great safety feature for modern street cars to have. 
 

As for parallel parking that is a regular thing where I am from. 

[Casey]

8 hours ago, Erik Smith said:

Now, if we could get some type of neck straightener so people won’t be looking down at their phones while driving, or sitting at a green light. 

Or better yet, something to keep both hands occupied while driving...🤔

[keyser]

3 hours ago, Casey said:

Or better yet, something to keep both hands occupied while driving...🤔

That doesn’t look like paddle shifter. 😎🤣

 

[CabDriver]

My wife's car, and my current daily, is only the second auto trans I've owned and driven in 22 years of driving - I still drive around with my hand on the shifter and occasionally forget myself and depress the non-existent clutch when pulling up to a junction 😁

[Classicgas]

5 hours ago, CabDriver said:

My wife's car, and my current daily, is only the second auto trans I've owned and driven in 22 years of driving - I still drive around with my hand on the shifter and occasionally forget myself and depress the non-existent clutch when pulling up to a junction 😁

Sounds familiar.  My 07 Focus is the first personal car(not the wife's) that I've owned with a automatic since about 85.

[Reegs]

On 3/1/2022 at 6:59 PM, Rob Hall said:

 As far as parallel parking, I think I’ve only done it a handful of times in 35 years of driving…when I’m parking in a city, it’s usually in a parking garage or lot. 

I lived in the city for a dozen years. You get real good at parallel parking, and that includes parking on either side of a one-way street.

[Rob Hall]

21 minutes ago, Reegs said:

I lived in the city for a dozen years. You get real good at parallel parking, and that includes parking on either side of a one-way street.

Yeah, I've always lived in small towns, suburbs or suburban parts of medium-to-large cities.  I'm used to always parking in parking garages downtown or surface lots.  Rarely had a need to parallel park. 

[peteski]

There are cars out there which will parallel (or pull-in) park themselves (even without you sitting in the car).  They can also be commanded to "pick you up" if they are parked nearby.

Edited March 8, 2022 by peteski

[SfanGoch]

Without quoting six pages' worth of comments on the swellness of automotive gadgetry, this says it all:

[Kromolly]

The video that began this post can be misleading.  The tech determined that voltage was below minimum and systems were shutting down.  Battery was changed and running voltage was determined to be only battery voltage level, no charging output.  We shouldn't assume a catastrophic failure.  It may very well be a failed alternator.  All of those codes likely resulted from low voltage to the modules.  That does not necessarily translate to toasted modules or a junkyard car.  Address the charging problem, clear the codes, and drive the car.  Codes may even clear themselves.  Odds are that there will not be any problem.  Been there done that with German and domestic cars.  I too think there is too much complexity in new cars and unless a reliable aftermarket source exists, electronics will probably be what does them in.  Module repair companies exist now.  For the majority of people though, the diagnostics will be their limiting factor and will make repairs in a shop more expensive than the car is worth, which I think was the original and valid point of this post.  But that's nothing new, people have always assessed a repair cost vs the value of their car.

Obviously there is a market for these ultra luxury and techno-gadgetry laden vehicles.  I don't care to own them and prefer to keep my older cars.  I have to face the fact though that eventually I will not be physically or perhaps cognitively capable of repairing my own cars and will have to succumb to the "under warranty" plan.

[Kromolly]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:03 PM, RSchnell said:

For years I drove nothing but old stuff, from a Model A Ford to a 60s Falcon Wagon as my daily drivers. Anywhere I needed to go I drove one of the 5 cars.  I only went modern for the safety factor as I spend a lot of time on Florida interstates. I've already been in one bad wreck in a '55 Ford that I likely would've walked away from had I been in a modern car with airbags and crumple zones etc. Instead I had all sorts of severe injuries, a 2 week hospital stay and still have scars 20+ years later. 

When I bought my grocery getter VW, the salesman was trying everything in his power to sell me on the digital dash and all that BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH. I told him "I like knobs for the a/c and analog gauges. I can't imagine what that gauge display would cost when it craps the bed-out of warranty of course." So far I've got 51K on it and have had absolutely zero issues. 

 

Really great example and sorry for your injuries.  One thing that has inarguably been achieved in modern cars is a much higher level of safety.  It is surprising to see what people walk away from today.

[Ace-Garageguy]

So much for heated seats...

[keyser]

Can’t fix stupid. 
Ford cooled seats are amazing though. Black Exploder on 102 degree day, I was amazed. 

[CabDriver]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

So much for heated seats...

 

Well, in the truck’s defense, we have no evidence that the driver’s behind isn’t still toasty warm in this pic…he may wanna blow some warm air on his feet though to stop frostbite setting in 🤪

[Dave Van]

Ever wonder why the $60-100K twelve year old SUV is for sale at $3K?? No parts support.  I watch a guy on Youtube that shows a BMW SUV that was $60K new now for sale at $2500 only because the only parts are salvage yard stuff. UNREAL!