If I Ran Revell....

[Snake45]

12 minutes ago, Casey said:

I think you're over-estimating by a large ratio. If 5% of people bought the lone body, I would be shocked. The vast majority of people want a complete kit, not a partial kit, even if there is a donor kit easily available to use with the partial kit/body.

The cost to create and all-new mold for a body shell (and hood, etc.) alone would be better spent on a full kit. Kit manufacturers are not in business to sell partial things (with the Parts Packs from Round2 being the exceptions), but rather whole, complete kits.

I like your idea, and would be a big supporter if the subjects matched my interests, but I strongly feel I am the minority, and in no way represent the mass buyer public.

I think you missed my point. I'm not suggesting bodies only. I'm suggesting full snap (curbside) kits, which could be assembled out of the box OR used with a full kit for full detail. And for every X number of my snappers sold, you'll also sell a donor kit. I won't buy donor kits for every one, as I'm quite happy with curbsides. But I would want to full-detail a few of them. 

[Casey]

9 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I think you missed my point. I'm not suggesting bodies only. I'm suggesting full snap (curbside) kits, which could be assembled out of the box OR used with a full kit for full detail. And for every X number of my snappers sold, you'll also sell a donor kit. I won't buy donor kits for every one, as I'm quite happy with curbsides. But I would want to full-detail a few of them. 

I understood, but essentially, if someone did what you're suggesting, they'd only be using the body parts from the SnapTite kit, and using the donor kit to fill out the rest of the model.

Think of it from Revell's point of view, instead of a builder's perspective. How many people are going to spend $20 on a '67 El Camino SnapTite kit, take out the body parts, then purchase a second '66 El Camino full-glue kit, and combine it all to make one fully detailed '67 El Camino? One out of every five buyers? While my opinion isn't quite as pessimistic as some here regarding younger generations' interests and abilities, I feel, even for those in Revell's age group sweet spot, box stock builders make up the vast majority of their customers.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Casey

[vamach1]

34 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I'd buy it if it had an ALL NEW, ALL CORRECT body. Would probably buy several. How about a '69 Boss 429? 

I'd buy it but this will have to do for now.

[Joe Handley]

53 minutes ago, Casey said:

Well, here's where we disagree, then. '32 Fords, '69 Camaros, Tri-Five Chevies and the like have proven to be good sellers over the years, and while there is definitely room for new and or different subjects, a '34-'37 Chrysler Airflow isn't going to sell well, no matter how much I want a kit of that subject. To Revell, "different" means a '50 Olds Coupe, an '83 Olds Cutlass 442, and a Midget race car. Safe bets include a '68/9 Chevelle, '69 Boss 302 Mustang, and reissues of similar musclecars.

If I was Revell, I would focus on getting everything in order, setting up distribution networks, and getting kits to market in a timely fashion. They have plenty of molds on hand from which they can produce kits which will sell just fine.

The '32-'34 Fords, Tri-5s, Early Camaros and Mustangs as well as the '68-'70 Chargers are all "big" enough to sell to all generations, even if they're over saturated.  The Midget didn't do that well I thought. The '50 Olds did do well, but I think the '83 will do better since there is a broader market, much like the above cars, vs the '50 Olds.

[DiscoRover007]

If I were Revell I would dissolve the 1/25 line and shift all new models to 1/24 scale. Then I'd start making niche kits that people want to make that haven't been tapped yet. There is a huge 4x4 market that has barely been touched.  I'd kit  Land Rover Discovery's, Defenders, Toyota 4 Runners, Tacoma's, Nissan Xterra's, the new Ford Ranger Raptor,  etc.

There has also been a lack of a decent new 911 Porsche kit. We also need a new Viper in 1/24

[Snake45]

9 hours ago, Casey said:

I understood, but essentially, if someone did what you're suggesting, they'd only be using the body parts from the SnapTite kit, and using the donor kit to fill out the rest of the model.

Think of it from Revell's point of view, instead of a builder's perspective. How many people are going to spend $20 on a '67 El Camino SnapTite kit, take out the body parts, then purchase a second '66 El Camino full-glue kit, and combine it all to make one fully detailed '67 El Camino? One out of every five buyers? While my opinion isn't quite as pessimistic as some here regarding younger generations' interests and abilities, I feel, even for those in Revell's age group sweet spot, box stock builders make up the vast majority of their customers.

We do this all the time. It's called kitbashing. Look in the promo chassis thread and you'll see several people talked about putting newer, better chassis under old kits. 

And Revell is selling plenty of nice snappers--some to younger modelers, some to serious modelers like us. I've built five or six of them and hope to build more. There's little reason for a modeler to convert their '69 Camaro or '57 Chevy snappers to full-detail, as good kits are available of those, but their '70 Chevelle and '63 Vettes are so good that they're worth kitbashing/upgrading. Several here have either done so or talked about it. 

[tim boyd]

There is an interesting point of view on a subject tangential to this thread (specifically, new kits that would actually interest and involve the Millennial generation), written by the associate editor of the other model car magazine, in the new February issue (page next to the back cover).  

While I don't fully agree with some of his points, there is plenty of food for thought in his essay.....TIM 

[Luc Janssens]

2 hours ago, tim boyd said:

specifically, new kits that would actually interest and involve the Millennial generation

While I don't fully agree with some of his points, there is plenty of food for thought in his essay.....TIM 

 

Don't have the issue yet Tim, but IMHO it's useless trying to involve Millennials, at least not until they reach the age of 40, when they finally understand the world doesn't revolve around them, and that they're in peace with that.

I dunno how they're gonna raise their kids though

 

About the topic, Revell did just that with their '10 Mustang GT convertible, snapper with separate hood.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Luc Janssens

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, Luc Janssens said:

About the topic, Revell did just that with their '10 Mustang GT convertible, snapper with opening hood.

 

Cool! Do they have a full-detail kit that can be used to upgrade it? (I'm not that sharp on newer stuff.)

[Luc Janssens]

6 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

Cool! Do they have a full-detail kit that can be used to upgrade it? (I'm not that sharp on newer stuff.)

They sure do, 

[bbowser]

Some interesting ideas here  Revell will need to do something different for sure.

1 hour ago, Luc Janssens said:

IMHO it's useless trying to involve Millennials, at least not until they reach the age of 40, when they finally understand the world doesn't revolve around them, and that they're in peace with that.

I think this was true of the boomer generation as well.  We were all wrapped up in our "youth culture", still suffering from that today as we refuse to age!  Our parents and previous generations were too busy fighting off the Depression and Hitler to be obsessed with themselves.

[Snake45]

19 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

They sure do, 

Very cool! So if you want a full detail 2010 Mustang convertible, everything you need is available. 

On this one I'd me more inclined to go the other way--I'd buy both, put the fastback on the snapper chassis, and see if I could swap the convertible body/interior and full detail chassis to someone who wanted to build THAT combination. Not that I have enough interest in modeling a 2010 Mustang to actually do this--I have a couple diecasts that scratch my modern Mustang itch just fine. 

[Rusty92]

On the topic of the younger audience, that is me, I am only 22. I have been modeling for just over 2 years (2 years exactly in November, as it's when I built my first AMT 67 Chevelle.) As a modeler I am interested in mostly everything. I have tractor/trailers, high-end sports cars, muscle cars, malaise-era vehicles, 2wd show trucks, 4wd mud toys, daily drivers, oddball stuff. 

But I do wish there was more late-model muscle available. I know Revell and Round 2 make newer Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers but they seem very bland. I wish the late model kits included more options or ways to build, rather than stock. In 1:1 I really enjoy those cars, but in scale they do little for me. I also wish they would do more late-model stuff in general. BeeMax (I think) made a rally version of the Chevy Cruze, Hasegawa made a Hyundai Azera, Fujimi/Tamiya make modern cars frequently. I think there is a big disconnect between whats hot and whats not. And please please please we need more late-model pickups. I would buy each kit.

I 100% love the reissues though since I did not have the chance to get them when they first came out or even the times they were reissued until now. It offers a young modeler like me to catch up and obtain some cool kits without paying the eBay prices of an older kit. 

This forum is great, I've been here for 2 years and have learned so much. The older folks offer so much wisdom and knowledge on kits that I have no clue about. And even those who are not much older than I am, they still have built for longer than me and offer just as much also. But "kids" are going to be the future. I think muscle cars will interest them still for many many years to come.

[niteowl7710]

21 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

What you say is somewhat true. The other way to look at it is what are the alternatives? They can only fill the shelves with what they can get.

In your post you said you wanted to spend a ton of company money on a large group of GM branded cars. Not that it is a bad thing but expand on how you could save money, Like use the same engine tooling on the Chebby brand as they are the same. One small mold only paying for the tooling cost and getting more bang for your buck. If it gets a big block throw that sprue in. If it gets the small block throw that one in. Exhaust and intake could have many options on the same "molded part".  Wheels could be dealt with the same way. Just put the correct wheel covers on the body sprue. Why do they constantly repay for what they already have. A smaller machine takes up less space and square footage is expensive. 

It's not that your idea is bad, it's just not how tooling is cut and engineered. If you were to look at any modern Tamiya kit with its 2-3 HUGE runners of parts...well that's how everyone else tools their stuff too, except it's cut up to fit in our smaller boxes.  A great study on that would be comparing any of the original "big box" Revellogram kits ('59 Caddy, Impalas, 60 Impala, 50 Ford F1, 65 Impala, etc) and compare it to the modern variants  (like the '66 Impala) or any of the current reissues and you can see how those big sprues are chopped down to seem like much smaller, more modular pieces.

So the only efficient way to create a "uniform" SBC would be to also tool up a SBF and maybe SBM all on one tooling and then release ongoing kits featuring those engines or gating off the other engines to just run the specific one. Otherwise you're wasting "real estate". The issue a universal engine also cause is creating a modular way to mount them into everything, how you address different oil pans and exhaust manifolds, etc. When you start puzzling over the many ways a SBC is dressed from its inception to modern times it becomes somewhat pointless to have a tool that just consists of an engine block and cylinder heads with the rest of the engine being application specific. 

Also due to the way the body tooling is designed there's no way to put other stuff like wheels into that piece. 

[Joe Handley]

56 minutes ago, Rusty92 said:

On the topic of the younger audience, that is me, I am only 22. I have been modeling for just over 2 years (2 years exactly in November, as it's when I built my first AMT 67 Chevelle.) As a modeler I am interested in mostly everything. I have tractor/trailers, high-end sports cars, muscle cars, malaise-era vehicles, 2wd show trucks, 4wd mud toys, daily drivers, oddball stuff. 

But I do wish there was more late-model muscle available. I know Revell and Round 2 make newer Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers but they seem very bland. I wish the late model kits included more options or ways to build, rather than stock. In 1:1 I really enjoy those cars, but in scale they do little for me. I also wish they would do more late-model stuff in general. BeeMax (I think) made a rally version of the Chevy Cruze, Hasegawa made a Hyundai Azera, Fujimi/Tamiya make modern cars frequently. I think there is a big disconnect between whats hot and whats not. And please please please we need more late-model pickups. I would buy each kit.

I 100% love the reissues though since I did not have the chance to get them when they first came out or even the times they were reissued until now. It offers a young modeler like me to catch up and obtain some cool kits without paying the eBay prices of an older kit. 

This forum is great, I've been here for 2 years and have learned so much. The older folks offer so much wisdom and knowledge on kits that I have no clue about. And even those who are not much older than I am, they still have built for longer than me and offer just as much also. But "kids" are going to be the future. I think muscle cars will interest them still for many many years to come.

[Luc Janssens]

1 hour ago, Rusty92 said:

On the topic of the younger audience, that is me, I am only 22. I have been modeling for just over 2 years (2 years exactly in November, as it's when I built my first AMT 67 Chevelle.) As a modeler I am interested in mostly everything. I have tractor/trailers, high-end sports cars, muscle cars, malaise-era vehicles, 2wd show trucks, 4wd mud toys, daily drivers, oddball stuff. 

But I do wish there was more late-model muscle available. I know Revell and Round 2 make newer Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers but they seem very bland. I wish the late model kits included more options or ways to build, rather than stock. In 1:1 I really enjoy those cars, but in scale they do little for me. I also wish they would do more late-model stuff in general. BeeMax (I think) made a rally version of the Chevy Cruze, Hasegawa made a Hyundai Azera, Fujimi/Tamiya make modern cars frequently. I think there is a big disconnect between whats hot and whats not. And please please please we need more late-model pickups. I would buy each kit.

I 100% love the reissues though since I did not have the chance to get them when they first came out or even the times they were reissued until now. It offers a young modeler like me to catch up and obtain some cool kits without paying the eBay prices of an older kit. 

This forum is great, I've been here for 2 years and have learned so much. The older folks offer so much wisdom and knowledge on kits that I have no clue about. And even those who are not much older than I am, they still have built for longer than me and offer just as much also. But "kids" are going to be the future. I think muscle cars will interest them still for many many years to come.

Ah glad to see your post, which means there's hope

You make valid points, especially on the build options, a kit should spark one's creativity, Amt got that very early on, others followed.

Sadly there's much less of that today,  mostly due to the fact that, every OEM has to give you the authorization for using their design and brand name if you want to include a scaled-down copy of their product in your kit and it also comes with a (sometimes hefty) fee.

So if one designs an all-new '71 Dodge Challenger R/T kit, and you wish to dress up that kit, you better only look into the "MOPAR" family parts bin only, or open up the design towards more model years, to get more mileage out of that tool and have that gotta have factor, 

Anyway..hope I'm making sense....a lot probably got lost in the translation, mind ---> writing

 

[Richard Bartrop]

The Gundam kits have shown that people are willing to buy expensive and complex snap kits, so if we're looking to get a new generation hooked on cars and car models, how about an updated version of The Visible Chassis?  It doesn't have to be on the same epic scale but it represents a modern FWD chassis with an inline 4, preferably something non specific to avoid license hassles.  Make it a hybrid so you can talk up the eco friendly aspect, and include background info on how everything is supposed to work.  Use chips to simplify some of the wiring, and you can use them as a jumping off point to teach little Johnny about modern engine electronics.   Understandably something like this would not be cheap, but maybe the best way to market it is not necessarily to just the hobby stores, but as an upscale educational toy.

[Rusty92]

4 hours ago, Luc Janssens said:

Ah glad to see your post, which means there's hope

You make valid points, especially on the build options, a kit should spark one's creativity, Amt got that very early on, others followed.

Sadly there's much less of that today,  mostly due to the fact that, every OEM has to give you the authorization for using their design and brand name if you want to include a scaled-down copy of their product in your kit and it also comes with a (sometimes hefty) fee.

So if one designs an all-new '71 Dodge Challenger R/T kit, and you wish to dress up that kit, you better only look into the "MOPAR" family parts bin only, or open up the design towards more model years, to get more mileage out of that tool and have that gotta have factor, 

Anyway..hope I'm making sense....a lot probably got lost in the translation, mind ---> writing

 

Totally makes sense, Luc. I agree, the licensing part can be a hassle, though it is necessary. 

[oldcarfan]

Sounds like a good plan to me! I would also add a tire and wheel line and maybe tool up some engines such as the Chrysler Hellcat, Chevy LS and the Ford Coyote and Ecoboost. They could even pack them in little crate boxes or something. Some kits include really nice modern aftermarket wheels and tires and I wouldn't mind getting those. I hate buying a kit just to rob the wheels or engine out of it. I figure they already have some of this stuff tooled up, maybe figure out a way to produce them as sets and release them. I'm tired of keeping Fujimi amd Aoshima in the accessory business!  LOL

[fumi]

22 hours ago, DiscoRover007 said:

If I were Revell I would dissolve the 1/25 line and shift all new models to 1/24 scale.

They should have done that at least with modern subjects long ago.  It was a major issue with their "tuner" line, instead of making them compatible with other kits of Japanese/European subjects, they had to make them in a scale that is noticeably dwarfed and aftermarket wheels from Aoshima and Fujimi wouldn't fit.

Regarding Snake's idea, I think Aoshima and Hasegawa are doing it right: curbside with an open hood and some rudimentary under hood detail, and leave the engine to the aftermarket.  I don't know how well it would work in a market where people proclaim they will not buy anything not full detailed, though.

[Oldcarfan27]

On 12/29/2018 at 7:56 PM, Snake45 said:

Kind of misses the point on my idea, which is (in part) to stimulate the sales of existing kits (tooling) by making exciting new bodies available for them. 

Not only would my new snappers sell, but maybe one in five of them would result in the sale of an existing kit that probably wouldn't have been bought except as a donor. 

Well, I like the idea, Snake.

I'd like to see a snapper 71-72 Chevelle to go with the new 69 glue kit or the oft issued 70. A 69 Firebird to go with the 69 Camaro Z28. A stock 80's Cadillac sedan for the lowrider coupe.

Or how about a "flip of the coin", a full kit 70s collonade Chevelle Malibu to convert the 77 Monte Carlo to stock.

I'd buy a bunch. 

[Oldcarfan27]

I would even like to see AMT do "pseudo-retro" promo-type kits of the 74-77 Camaro, 74-76 Trans Am, 63-64 Riviera, 71-76 Impala/Caprice, or even 68-69 Impala. Instead of wasting tooling dollars on "Snap Fast Slammers" like Black Force or Rod Rageous thingy cars or yet another late model Camaro or Mustang snapper. 

But that's just me.

[espo]

If you were running Revell and wanted to expand your business into the future I think you would have to consider some subjects that represent more currant production vehicles. I think most of us of a certain age might even be interested in building something offered in the last 20 years by automotive  manufactures, but more importantly the younger future modelers would have something they can better relate too. The old molds of past model offerings are a sunk cost and reissuing them would still be a viable option as long as they were still selling. A company can't always move forward counting on an ageing buyer demographic. Just look at everyone bemoaning the piles of models in their basements and divide that with our expected life span and I think we can all see where Revell needs to go with their product lines.    

[mikemodeler]

On 12/29/2018 at 2:00 PM, Snake45 said:

If I ran Revell, I'd start a new line of 1/25 snappers--actually, a continuation of their current snapper line, but done like their '69 Camaro with separate hoods. These would have accurate bodies, basic but accurate interiors, and 1-piece chassis with wire axles, and would retail for @ $20. Here's the twist: They would be set up so they could be transformed into full-detail kits using an already existing Revell full kit chassis and engine and whatnot. Instructions on how to do this would be included (for the "advanced modeler"). 

I think they'd sell a lot of such kits, and they'd also sell a bunch of "donor" kits, too. I know I'd buy 'em. 

Discuss.

This was in the back of my mind yesterday when I was in Michael's. I had a 40% off coupon and found the Revell 69 Z-28 on the shelf. The shelf price was $16.00 so after the coupon and the state's tax, I walked out the door with the kit for $10.30. I just might do as Snake suggests and slap the detailed chassis under the snapper body.

[Motor City]

7 hours ago, espo said:

If you were running Revell and wanted to expand your business into the future I think you would have to consider some subjects that represent more currant production vehicles. I think most of us of a certain age might even be interested in building something offered in the last 20 years by automotive  manufactures, but more importantly the younger future modelers would have something they can better relate too. The old molds of past model offerings are a sunk cost and reissuing them would still be a viable option as long as they were still selling. A company can't always move forward counting on an ageing buyer demographic. Just look at everyone bemoaning the piles of models in their basements and divide that with our expected life span and I think we can all see where Revell needs to go with their product lines.    

Sadly, I can't think of many vehicles over the past couple of decades that I would want a kit of, though many of you might be interested in kits of SUVs, exotic sports cars, or tuners.  I don't know the European or Asian vehicles or kit manufacturers well enough to know if these are covered.  For the American market, I would do a Cadillac CTS-V coupe, ATS-V coupe, or ELR.  Going back a bit further, I would do an XLR.  The last Buick worth doing would be the '95-'99 Riviera.   A Pontiac G6 retractable convertible or coupe, the G8 sedan, and the Chevrolet HHR would be other good subjects.  The current Charger offers the most potential with various police car versions.