Changing Times, Changing Tastes

[StevenGuthmiller]

15 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

The fact of the matter is, back in the '70s, both AMT and Monogram gave us kits of stuff that was even weirder, stranger, uglier, and more bizarre!  And SOME of us actually BOUGHT them!  You know who you are! 

I'm clean!

 

 

 

 

Steve

[stavanzer]

And a Few of Us, wish we still had those kits!

 

[bobthehobbyguy]

6 hours ago, chepp said:

I didn't see anybody commenting on my post a couple of months ago. Chip Foose just made a drawing of a customized Pacer:

In my opinion he made it look pretty good, but I still don't find it appealing. Maybe this is part of the future of customizing despite what I think. How about you?

 

Here's a pic of the Gremlin at the Grand National Roadster Show that I mentioned in my March post. It's swiped from https://journal.classiccars.com/2020/01/31/32-ford-takes-americas-most-beautiful-roadster-honors/ .

Hey its somebodies pride and joy. Also they took the time to finish a few years ago this would have a rat rod.

[slusher]

9 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

Hey its somebodies pride and joy. Also they took the time to finish a few years ago this would have a rat rod.

That’s a good point. If it was primered and rusty it would be more liked...

[vincen47]

This is truly a fascinating thread, a great discussion topic, even if it does get a little heated at times. That’s understandable when we’re dealing with something so individualistic and so dear to us as collectability and value. 

I’ve pondered this for many years. What will the future hold in what is generally deemed collectible? It all comes down to an individual connection to the object, either through personal experience (growing up in said era) or taught experience, such as an object handed down through generations, though that doesn’t usually apply to vehicles.

When it comes to cars, it’s generally a personal experience, whether you, a friend, or a family member owned one, or you witnessed it going down the road, or a magazine ad or poster that adorned your bedroom wall as a kid. Nostalgia, plain and simple, one of the most powerful forces on earth.

That being said, the bell-curve of car collectability is usually centered on what is currently about 50 years old. The bell curve marches forward in time as the clock ticks away, as we humans also move forward into the future.

Disposable income plays a huge part in what actually makes it into the garages of the collector, thus the younger end of both collector and collectible is not as easily seen, but nevertheless exists. My dream garage (or warehouse, rather) would have vehicles I think are awesome, and multiple examples from each decade of the past 100 years or more. But, most would be ones I’ve seen on the road or driven.

Case in point, I’m 40. I still own my first vehicle (not a daily driver anymore), an 86 Bronco. In the past 24 years, I have witnessed first hand the public opinion of that vehicle change. It has gone from a hand-me-down teenager’s vehicle that wouldn’t so much as get a second glance from anyone, aside from a cliche OJ Simpson joke (there were a lot of them, and it’s not even white in color) to a head-turning, increasing in value, desirable truck of today. During a 2002 basic restoration, I found it challenging to get aftermarket replacement parts. Now, it’s easy.

Many of you will never give vehicles of that era a second look, and that’s ok. But there’s a growing population that sees value in that era. It’s all about nostalgia.

Model companies would be wise to follow the nostalgia-powered bell curve of collectibility. For the most part they do, but it also requires plenty of new subjects to be kitted and reissued as time moves on.

 

[peteski]

9 minutes ago, vincen47 said:

Case in point, I’m 40. I still own my first vehicle (not a daily driver anymore), an 86 Bronco. In the past 24 years, I have witnessed first hand the public opinion of that vehicle change. It has gone from a hand-me-down teenager’s vehicle that wouldn’t so much as get a second glance from anyone, aside from a cliche OJ Simpson joke (there were a lot of them, and it’s not even white in color) to a head-turning, increasing in value, desirable truck of today. During a 2002 basic restoration, I found it challenging to get aftermarket replacement parts. Now, it’s easy.

Many of you will never give vehicles of that era a second look, and that’s ok. But there’s a growing population that sees value in that era. It’s all about nostalgia.

Model companies would be wise to follow the nostalgia-powered bell curve of collectibility. For the most part they do, but it also requires plenty of new subjects to be kitted and reissued as time moves on.

 

I give the '80s a "Second look" . My "collectible" is an '85 Caddy Eldorado Biarritz.

To me it is a great looking car, and when I attend car shows or cruise nights, my car is usually the only one of its kinds.  To me it is a good thing - I like to be unique. It also  evokes lots of positive comments from the spectators or other owners. 

To be honest, when I check out other cars at the shows, I much prefer to check out some odd Pacer or  a Gremlin than just another dime-a-dozen '57 Chevy, or a '60s corvette.  I would love to see a Chevette or an AMC Matador (stock of course) at a car show.  Heck, even a dodge Omni. The Pro Street stuff is "meh" to me.  Or how much fun would be to see the 1st generation Chrysler Minivan at a car show?  Those things started a huge  automotive revolution.

I also appreciate other classic cars (especially from the first half of the 20th Century), so I'm not stuck in the '80s either. 

As far as models go, I doubt that model kit companies will ever produce a wide range of models from the '80s. I think the entire plastic model  kit hobby is slowing down (but not yet dying) due to many causes (virtual reality on computers, and many modelers/collectors getting into assembled model cars in 1:18 and 1:43 scale).  I have a sizable collection of preassembled 1:43 kits myself. Most are of cars which I don't think will ever be produced as plastic kits.

[MrObsessive]

That is a GORGEOUS Eldo Peter!!

I've liked those ever since they debuted in late '78 as '79 models........one of Caddy's nicer designs along with the '80 Seville. I know that particular car has a love/hate relationship among enthusiasts, but I gotta hand it to Bill Mitchell in making a design that stood out and I think it was one of his last before he retired.

[ChrisBcritter]

Just wish Jo-Han had hung on long enough to do one of these, even if only as a promo.

Peteski, have you done any of the mods to the bottom end of the 4100 to strengthen it?

[Richard Bartrop]

13 hours ago, peteski said:

I give the '80s a "Second look" . My "collectible" is an '85 Caddy Eldorado Biarritz.

To me it is a great looking car, and when I attend car shows or cruise nights, my car is usually the only one of its kinds.  To me it is a good thing - I like to be unique. It also  evokes lots of positive comments from the spectators or other owners.

 

Oh it is a handsome machine. '70s European hard edge style married with '30s classicism, all mixed in just the right amounts.  Elegant and restrained, but with just enough glitter to keep it from looking sterile. Bill Mitchell was the master of line and proportion, right up to the end.

It's better looking than anything Cadillac put out in the '50s.

 

[peteski]

4 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

Oh it is a handsome machine. '70s European hard edge style married with '30s classicism, all mixed in just the right amounts.  Elegant and restrained, but with just enough glitter to keep it from looking sterile. Bill Mitchell was the master of line and proportion, right up to the end.

It's better looking than anything Cadillac put out in the '50s.

 

Thanks! I agree. And I love the very subtle hint of fins on both, the front and the back of the car.  The long-hood/short-deck proportions are also very elegant, sleek and pleasing to the eye (at least to my eye).

That car also had many advanced design features for the '80s.  Front wheel drive, (but Eldos had that layout for decades), torsion bars front suspension (coils in the rear). 4-wheel independent suspension, stabilizer bars both front and rear, 4-whel disk brakes, 15" wheels, Digital Fuel Injection (throttle body, but still).  Then many convenience features like driver's memory seat and fiber-optic based lamp monitoring system (that has been around for few years too), and digital dashboard readouts.  It is a fun car to drive (while it is not a '70s big boat), it still has a very smooth and cushy ride, while it also handles corners quite well.

[slusher]

19 hours ago, peteski said:

I give the '80s a "Second look" . My "collectible" is an '85 Caddy Eldorado Biarritz.

Beautiful classic,,  Peter!

[Snake45]

21 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

Hey its somebodies pride and joy. Also they took the time to finish a few years ago this would have a rat rod.

To be honest, I think this one would have actually worked better as a rat--or rat-ish--rod! 

[Tom Geiger]

I agree that people collect what they remember. It may be a car they pined over as a kid but couldn’t afford until now, or a car that was significant in their life. That’s the collectibility of bread and butter mainstreamers, including the family station wagons. 
 

Pop culture comes into play so the Pacer got a boost from the Wayne’s World movie.  There is a cult collecting following. The Pacer was a novel and innovative concept when new, and I’d venture that if it was a Chevy or Ford, it would be a lot more popular now!
 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Tom Geiger

[bismarck]

Is it true that the Pacer had one door longer than the other? I’ve always heard the rumor, but never checked the measurements myself.

[Tom Geiger]

1 minute ago, bismarck said:

Is it true that the Pacer had one door longer than the other? I’ve always heard the rumor, but never checked the measurements myself.

Yes. Passenger side door was longer to aid access for rear seat passengers 

[89AKurt]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:55 AM, chepp said:

I didn't see anybody commenting on my post a couple of months ago. Chip Foose just made a drawing of a customized Pacer:

In my opinion he made it look pretty good, but I still don't find it appealing. Maybe this is part of the future of customizing despite what I think. How about you?

 

Here's a pic of the Gremlin at the Grand National Roadster Show that I mentioned in my March post. It's swiped from https://journal.classiccars.com/2020/01/31/32-ford-takes-americas-most-beautiful-roadster-honors/ .

Hmmm..... looks like a pregnant Gremlin.  Wish I could draw that fast. ?  I have to overlay a picture before drawing.

That Gremlin, to each his own. ?  What is with the bomber seats, geez talk about uncomfortable.

[peteski]

3 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

Hmmm..... looks like a pregnant Gremlin.  Wish I could draw that fast. ?  I have to overlay a picture before drawing.

That Gremlin, to each his own. ?  What is with the bomber seats, geez talk about uncomfortable.

Um, isn't that car just for show?  Nobody actually sits in those seats to drive that thing.  At least I hope not.

[peteski]

6 hours ago, slusher said:

Beautiful classic,,  Peter!

Thank you Carl!

[Brudda]

On 3/15/2020 at 1:57 PM, iamsuperdan said:

I have some thoughts.

 

I’m speaking for myself, but probably also speaking for a significant chunk of the “car guy” population.

 You older guys who love the cars of the 30s, 40s, and 50s are pining for the cars of your youth. The cars you grew up with and the cars you could afford, which is why in the past there has been such a large number of these cars at shows. It’s also why these are the cars that were kitted the most by model manufacturers.

Now who are the people with the means to afford a car hobby? Is it the fixed income retired people? Nope. It’s guys like me. Guys in their 40s with a somewhat disposable income. But us 30 and 40 somethings for the most part, don’t pine for the 50s. We are after the cars of our youth; which means 70s, 80s, and possibly 90s. That’s why the number of cars from the mid-70s and newer are becoming more and more prevalent on the show circuit. Recent shows like Radwood are proving this. It’s not to say we don’t like and appreciate the older cars, but those aren’t what really get us going. And I think that if the modelling companies can’t see this and adapt, they will disappear. By rehashing old stuff, they are catering to a fan base that is quite literally dying off.

As for the youth of today, what can they afford to buy? Definitely not cool cars from the 50s or 60s. They're buying basic transportation from the 90s and 2000s. There's a reason Hondas and Toyotas are popular among youth. It's what they can afford! And just wait until kinds like my daughter are old enough to start driving. Her generation may not even be able to buy domestic cars...because the domestics aren't building cars. It's all SUVs and trucks. Having said that, my soon to be 13 year old daughter wants a truck, and is still ticked that I sold my 97 Chev K1500.

 

Locally, I'm thinking about the car shows I attended last summer. Lots of this stuff. And if you looks in the backgrounds of these pics, it's not all muscle and rods.

 

I have been in the automotive repair business since 1969. I have seen so many changes. As a sponsor of hot august nights , I have seen a decline of restored cars to the restomods. So there will always be money in it. That is some what sad for real car guys that have to work every day for a income. The first real change I saw in the eighties, the vw bugs. Kids could afford them and there are all different ways to make them. Gas was a big factor. Then I saw the Honda cars. You could now go fast and afford it. And there is the gas factor again. Now mind you that the car collector thing is still going on, but there is a new car culture behind it all. I believe all of you are correct in your own eyes. It’s what you can afford . This is why rat rods became popular. . Money  dictates which direction you will go . I love them all, VW’s , Honda’s , Muscle cars, Sports cars, Drifters , Drag and the list goes on. Now my boy makes a great living, he is 32 years old with $250,000 a year he can buy what he likes. Not all are like this , a lot still live at home. His friend is 32 and has a dental reconstruction business. He makes over 1 mill a year. So he has 32 fords. He is the youngest to have a car on the cover of rodders journal. Number 49. So it really depends what you make. This takes you to what kind of car you will get. It’s always about the money.  Sad to say but it’s true

[Bugatti Fan]

It is amazing what people will pay for old desirable cars. I was watching a UK TV program named 'Bangers and Cash' about a car auctioneers in Yorkshire.

He came a cross a barn find original Mini Cooper 1275S that was basically a rusted out wreck. Offers of thousands of pounds from all over the world were coming in for it. He removed the original factory ID plate to ensure that the buyer got it as the car;s body shell would probably have to be completely rebuilt by a restorer.

I likes Pete's Caddy...……...Nice car to enjoy.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Bugatti Fan

[misterNNL]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:19 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

Hey its somebodies pride and joy. Also they took the time to finish a few years ago this would have a rat rod.

Grand waste of money.

[Joe Handley]

16 hours ago, misterNNL said:

Grand waste of money.

To me it's a waste of a Gremlin, especially if it was in good shape to start with.......then again, I'd have stuck a late model Jeep XJ 4.0l (preferably a stroker) and AW4 and make a nice cruiser out of one.

[Brian Austin]

That Gremlin reminds me of a short track racer.  It's also not far in spirit from the wild show rods of decades past.

[Brian Austin]

Two recent articles:

 

https://driving.ca/chevrolet/auto-news/news/millennials-are-doing-the-opposite-of-killing-the-classic-car-industry-survey

 

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/features/millennials-vintage-car-collecting/

[thatz4u]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:19 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

Hey its somebodies pride and joy. Also they took the time to finish a few years ago this would have a rat rod.

Dang!!!! I just traded my last Gremlin kit....