Well it’s finally announced.😦

[Rob Hall]

As far as electric home power equipment, I have electric chainsaws, leaf blower, leaf mulcher, screwdrivers, drill and snowblower, all work fine for me.
 

 Saw the pics today of the Charger Daytona EV coupe concept, looks great. Hope the production model looks as good.  I’m looking forward to seeing how it does.

Lots of interesting EVs on the market now, lots more coming…

Edited August 18, 2022 by Rob Hall

[cobraman]

Just saw on the news that Ford, Chevy and Hummer just raised their prices on some ev's a few to several thousand dollars. True ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

There's no question some electric tools outperform their more traditional counterparts under some conditions.

I have a top-of-the-line rechargeable 1/2 inch drive impact wrench that's so superior to dragging an air hose all over the shop, I've come to rely on it for extremely high-torque fastener removal. It's a kinda nice "away" tool as well, as a bank of solar cells can charge it in the field.

But did I throw all my old breaker bars out because it works so well in PARTICULAR applications? No, because I'm not an embrace-whatever's-new-no-matter-what-just-because-it's-new kinda guy. I use WHAT WORKS, and there's simply no substitute for an old fashioned long extension bar in some circumstances.

So don't keep trying to shove electric vehicles down EVERYONE'S throats.

They're just another tool in the box.

They'll be fine for some people, maybe even most people in urban settings (assuming the infrastructure can handle the increased load), but THEY WILL NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE ALL THE TIME, and insisting they will is the height of arrogant ignorance.

EDIT: Funny thing, to me anyway, is that I have done EV conversions back in the dim recesses of time, long before anybody could foresee this stuff would become mainstream. Heavy lead-acid batteries imposed limitations on performance and range, but the advantages in PARTICULAR situations were the same as now: the ability to have a fully-"fueled" relatively short-range vehicle that took it's motive power directly from the infrastructure that ran the house.

My new home in Az. is miles from town, and on trips where I don't need a truck, or where driving something interesting isn't the main objective, I can definitely see the advantages to having a little grocery-getter electric.

BUT NOT FOR EVERYTHING.

EDIT 2: There are STILL situations where a horse or your own two legs are the only things that will get you where you need to go.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tabbysdaddy]

I think I've found an EV I can afford. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, cobraman said:

Just saw on the news that Ford, Chevy and Hummer just raised their prices on some ev's a few to several thousand dollars. True ?

Yes.

As soon as the “inflation Reduction Act” was signed, which includes a $7,500.00 subsidy for purchases of EVs, Ford and GM announced price increases to match.

Could have been that the price increases were announced prior to the bill’s signing, but regardless, here again, another example of the government spending a boat load of OUR money for basically no benefit whatsoever.

The only people who will benefit from the subsidy will be people who can already easily afford an EV.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited August 18, 2022 by StevenGuthmiller

[Ace-Garageguy]

7 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

I think I've found an EV I can afford. 

[Tabbysdaddy]

2 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Yes.

As soon as the “inflation Reduction Act” was signed, which includes a $7,500.00 subsidy for purchases of EVs, Ford and GM announced price increases to match.

Could have been that the price increases were announced prior to the bill’s signing, but regardless, here again, another example of the government spending a boat load of OUR money for basically no benefit whatsoever.

 

 

 

Steve

Fords increase is $8500 from what I've heard. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

11 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

Fords increase is $8500 from what I've heard. 

I don’t know all of the exact amounts, but I did hear that the Hummer increase would be around $6,500.00.

Oops!

I guess it’ll be back to the printing press to print some more funny money. 🙄

 

 

 

Steve

[iBorg]

I find this whole thread somewhat amusing. 

A few thoughts. 

The biggest problem with electric vehicles is infrastructure does not exist in many regions of the country to recharge them. I believe we are facing what was common in the 1910-20's with gasoline. The infrastructure now exists after a few decades dependent on the energy source. Hybrids may be a better choice in rural areas that will lack behind in recharging stations.  

I'm considering solar power for my house. With a battery integrated into the system, I'll be able to charge my car in the evening. If I charge after dark, I would also be charging during lower needs on the electric grid if I have not captured enough electricity during the day. As for the grid not being able to handle mass charging, I agree. The United State's electric grid is obsolete as has been proven by rolling blackouts. Mass charging without solar generation will result in grid failure. One problem with this concept, is it only applies if you own the property. I don't see many rental houses being solar equipped for the foreseeable future. To fully take advantage of EVs favors those who can invest in infrastructure. This bothers me on a societal level. 

I am concerned about EV range. This has been one of the biggest drawback to EV's besides the price. Is it really an issue or a point to convince the public to continue to want ICE. We are convinced we need to drive 500 miles without a recharge. Of course my van only does 432 miles on a full tank of gas. That doesn't bother me. Why? Maybe the range issue isn't such an issue except we're being led to believe it is. Maybe the range is not what we should be concerned with relative to the charging time. For example, if I have a 300 mile range and a 15 minute charge time, will that negate the range concern? Of course, we will need charging stations to be as common as gas stations. Maybe we'll have EVs for local driving and rent a petrol car for long distance driving. 

I love the sound of certain ICEs. The sound of a Ferrari or a nitro engine is amazing. They're cherished memories. Unfortunately, I can't remember when I heard the last one. Electric motors offer near  instantaneous torque in near silence. My premium drinking turbo performance car has significant turbo lag. Performance EVs don't. 

One of the main reasons car dealerships and mechanics oppose EVs is the significantly reduced maintenance costs. Many of our scheduled maintenance items will not exist with EVs. Since most dealerships make a significant amount of their profit from scheduled maintenance, they will need to develop alternative income sources. This will be even more challenging when most buyers of EVs and hybrids hold onto these vehicles longer than those who purchase ICEs. Many will struggle. Manufacturers are starting to deal with a public that is anticipated to buy newer new vehicles with rented options such as the BMW heated seat program.

Even with electrics running on electricity that is sourced from fossil fuels, numerous studies indicate this is more environmentally friendly than ICE that rely on fossil fuel extraction, processing and then continously emit further pollution 

I worry about the environmental and replacement costs for batteries. Alternative battery materials are being developed. These will need to come to market for new EVs to be cost competitive. Likewise, many of the EVs motors utilize rare metals. Alternative designs are being resourced and hopefully will come to the marketplace.

As someone who anticipated building a hot rod as a retirement project, the decline of the ICE has effected that decision. I can't get my head around a classic car with an electric motor in place of the flathead although I'm researching a good convertible platform to convert to the performance possibilities of an electric motor. 

 

 

 

[keyser]

There is a cap on the price of the cars eligible for tax break. Only a few cars qualify, and they ended the production based part. 
I forget exact number, but it was msrp of 60-75k or less. 
Manufacturers used to be ineligible for a buyer to get tax break over a certain production #. Now all buyers get break. 
Not a rich people thing. IRS not after anyone with <400k yearly income. 

[Metalbeast]

An 18 year old platform is being discontinued? In a day and age where an 8 year product cycle is considered long? Color me shocked. 🤪 

And don't be afraid of Chrysler going all EV any time soon, seeing as how Stellantis has just sunk a few billion into the new Hurricane internal combustion engine. Be more worried about the proliferation of more Fiat platforms and parts. That's not just for Jeeps anymore if the new Dodge Hornet is any indicator. Although that DS might make a fine Chrysler with a little badge engineering. 

[stitchdup]

The cops aren't going to stick with lumbering suvs when everyone else is in fast evs. They are going to use whatever can catch other vehicles and right now to catch an ev, you need an ev. an internal combustion engine to keep pace with an ev would not make sense to buy or run simply due to mpg, we've seen teslas keeping up with some street outlaws cars and look at the engines they have, fine if you plan to catch them in 500 yards but after that the teslas gone when the engine in the other car pops. the same thing happened when the car became common, cops transitioned from horse to car cos the horse couldn't keep up. Dont worry about what the cops will be driving, they will keep up with the technology because otherwise they just cant do their jobs. I would expect the cop evs to have bigger batteries though or some form of fast battery swap between vehicles.

And how will taxis manage? taxis make money by being on the road 24hrs a day, and 350 miles range just doesn't happen in a city with all the stop start traffic. A taxi will be lucky to get 4 hrs before it needs charged. has anyone developed a recovery plan for evs? some of them cannot be towed and have to be lifted or the motors get destroyed. will taxi companies be doubling the number of cars they own? or will they just close down cos they cant afford it?

[Claude Thibodeau]

HI!

I remember the inventor of the first micro-wave oven saying something to the effect that "any invention spreads like wildfire as soon as the guy next door clearly grasps what the damn thing will do to enhance his daily life". Nowaday, do you know many people who avoid having a micro-wave oven in the kitchen?

I also remember historians and civilizations experts wondering why remnants of huge cities buried under the canopy in tropical jungles seemed to indicate that the residents somehow seemed to have "vanished overnight". What happened? UFO's taking them away? Pademic? Ethnic cleansing?

Then, someone posited there may have been a major event, out of control, that forced them to move away?  Major drought, maybe? You tell me...

Let's see: can you imagine, say, major southwest urban mega-cities  staying populated once they "run out of water", or the Colorado runs dry? Far fetched? Maybe. 

My point is not gloom... Just that to go back to the micro-wave guy, once a thing impact you so much, positively or negatively, you tend to reconsider the way you deal with it. 

Also consider that the fossil fuel industries, faced with possible "reduction in demand" for their core product, will wisely try to: A- fight back, and B- develop alternative products. In their case, it already exists: PLASTICS (amongst which is our cherished styrene!!!) . On this front, the green lobby is also vere agressive. 

Interesting times ahead, wouldn't you say?

Just my two cents...

CT 

[vintagerpm]

23 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

I can just imagine being back in 1900, when the last major change in transportation fuel happened...the switch to cars from the horse and buggy.

Everyone complaining about how much more expensive a car was compared to their horses and buggies. 

The environmental activists complaining about how much grain and feed horses were consuming. The "emissions" coming from the horses. The flies the emissions attracted. 

Others complaining about how unsafe these cars were, because all of a sudden we had accidents as people tried to show off their new tech, not really understanding how it was to be used

Except that switch wasn't forced down their throats by governments like EVs are being forced down ours. It happened naturally.

[stitchdup]

1 minute ago, vintagerpm said:

Except that switch wasn't forced down their throats by governments like EVs are being forced down ours. It happened naturally.

except it wasn't done naturally. the oil industry pushed for internal combustion over ev. in the earliest days electric cars were just as popular as ic. and most power stations then were coal, and close to population centres so there was a lot of illness produced by the smog. internal combustion was sold as the cleaner power for cars because there was less visable smog initially, and by the time we realised there was jst as much smog the choice was made and it was too late. If you look back at early photos of cities with cars, more than half are electric

[NOBLNG]

18 minutes ago, Claude Thibodeau said:

Let's see: can you imagine, say, major southwest urban mega-cities  staying populated once they "run out of water", or the Colorado runs dry? Far fetched? Maybe. 
The USA should start building large de-salination plants now like Israel has done. There is an unlimited supply of water in the oceans. It is only fresh water that is becoming scarce.

 In their case, it already exists: PLASTICS (amongst which is our cherished styrene!!!) . On this front, the green lobby is also vere agressive. 

They better not mandate bio-degradable plastic for models!🤨

 

[iamsuperdan]

Although fake engine noise is dumb, it does sound cool. And apparently Dodge make it just as loud as a Hellcat can be. 126db.

 

Looks pretty good too.  I'm guessing for production, the mirrors will grow and the wheels will change.

 

[iamsuperdan]

Found the inspiration for "the sound." 😋

 

 

[Plowboy]

I keep seeing the phrase "forced on". NO ONE is forcing anyone to buy an EV! You don't want one? It's simple, DON'T BUY ONE!!! We're a long long way from going totally to EV's. So, get over it. The sky isn't falling!

I find it very amusing that there's so many EV "experts" on this forum. Somehow, they know all about them. But, don't own one, probably haven't seen one in person and have never driven one. 

[Rob Hall]

13 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

I keep seeing the phrase "forced on". NO ONE is forcing anyone to buy an EV! You don't want one? It's simple, DON'T BUY ONE!!! We're a long long way from going totally to EV's. So, get over it. The sky isn't falling!

I find it very amusing that there's so many EV "experts" on this forum. Somehow, they know all about them. But, don't own one, probably haven't seen one in person and have never driven one. 

Yeah, a lot of armchair experts..it's the usual crowd on here that like to complain and grumble about anything new and different from how things were 50-60 years ago, they seem incapable of seeing anything positive about the modern world or future.    Best to just ignore them. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Rob Hall

[espo]

47 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

Although fake engine noise is dumb, it does sound cool. And apparently Dodge make it just as loud as a Hellcat can be. 126db.

 

Looks pretty good too.  I'm guessing for production, the mirrors will grow and the wheels will change.

 

Based on looks alone I would consider trading my Charger for this, just needs a Hemi. Now if we could just get one of the model builders to offer this in 1/25th form, I have a few Hemis in the stash that I would use to build a model of this. Just can't beat these guys for body styling in my mind. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

Yeah, a lot of armchair experts..it's the usual crowd on here that like to complain and grumble about anything new and different from how things were 50-60 years ago.   Best to just ignore them. 

More prudent to just ignore the endless rebleatings of this same tired line.

We get it. You're the hip-happening-know-everything-future-looking kinda guy all us old fossils are jealous of, and anybody who criticizes any current trend, no matter how hopelessly misguided, is too old and past it to take seriously.

Stay awesome.

[vamach1]

59 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

Although fake engine noise is dumb, it does sound cool. And apparently Dodge make it just as loud as a Hellcat can be. 126db.

 

Looks pretty good too.  I'm guessing for production, the mirrors will grow and the wheels will change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does it talk to you?

Edited August 18, 2022 by vamach1

[von Zipper]

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

33 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

...I find it very amusing that there's so many EV "experts" on this forum. Somehow, they know all about them. But, don't own one, probably haven't seen one in person and have never driven one. 

This is a hoot. Really. I've been involved in alt-fuel projects and organizations off and on since 1974 (when it became pretty obvious to anyone who was awake that fossil fuels as we knew them were on the way out), and have stayed current on the tech and the legislation, have actually done early EV and propane and CNG conversions, and have had the opportunity to drive many of the current offerings because one shop I'm associated with repairs them.

You could truthfully say I know considerably more about the subject than most of the opinion-posters.

But as I'm all too aware, actual knowledge and experience mean nothing to a certain mindset.

EDIT: As shown by the continuous ha-ha emoticons. Never a valid or at least thought-out argument.

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy